Echostar vs. Newgeniks

[torpainter]

Echostar vs. Newgeniks

[Crazy Carl]

Echostar vs. Newgeniks

yikes, well it is what it is, thanks for the info torpainter

[Highwayman]

i fear for the clients of both servers recently brought down.
They have to be worried a little.

[nareshwarr22]

What going to happen to the people who bought codes from this provider.

[el chido]

Oh Boy, This One didn't Last That Long!!...

[Nostradamus]

What going to happen to the people who bought codes from this provider.

well if they are lucky they will just lose the money they paid

[torpainter]

the server they are using is still running ,the legal issue concerns the website

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Looks like the web site is hosted in the Netherlands. This does not work if they discover you as the owner as residing in North America. Looks like the web site is offline now.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

What going to happen to the people who bought codes from this provider.



There is no order to turn over records but they did ask the court to order the defendants to preserve all records in the complaint. This is not like Dark Angel when they went to the court secretly and obtained a court order allowing the seizure of records with an unanounced surprised Civil seizure sealed visit that they later used to pursue some end users.




GS2

[jcheve]

wow i thot theyd knock out nfps and rocket before the newbies.... yikes!

[NOKIA™]

wow i thot theyd knock out nfps and rocket before the newbies.... yikes!

not anyone can play the IKS Game ...;)

[DualTest]

There are rumors that newgen never even existed and that just resold existing IKS.

[tpboles22]

I'm pretty sure they are reselling kanadianiks. I think it is a site issue (owner being in the states).

[dishuser]

They have nothing to do with kanadianiks.....unless renting space maybe don't know ???? So your pretty sure quote is wrong for reselling .....seeing as there not taking any money at all for new donations....
server url is same
so you're wrong in saying that

[jcheve]

true but judging by the "im down" posts in the nfps section doesnt seem nfps plays it well either and im sure they are up there on dicks list...

[DualTest]

true but judging by the "im down" posts in the nfps section doesnt seem nfps plays it well either and im sure they are up there on dicks list...

Apples and Oranges

[ledyjr23]

From satcums...

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5659/satfix.png

Sad... But Truth

[Crazy Carl]

yikes and yikes again, hope all that was with nexiks and newgen protected them selves well as the dominoes seem to be tumbling down, i would be extremely careful those who are still connected to there server's

[fta@#$%^&]

as you can see public iks is on the way out, i wonder who will be next.

[ababa]

May be a naive question but how do we ( as individual end users) protect ourselves?

It is difficult to hide basic information from satfix such as email addresses and your resident addresses. I feel I am a legal
member of the community and I do no harm to anyone or any company. I am testing sat tv with equipment bought legally and I am not trying to get profit from anyone.

Infact, I saw the other day on the paper someone discovered a slick little $47 invention pulls in up to 953 crystal clear over-the-air digital TV shows Free with no monthly bills. Now what am I doing different? If this invention was illegal and passing free tv claim code for the public and having hotline people to call this illegal then we have a case.....what do you think . I just like your opinion. Thanks

[Anubis]

May be a naive question but how do we ( as individual end users) protect ourselves?

It is difficult to hide basic information from satfix such as email addresses and your resident addresses. I feel I am a legal
member of the community and I do no harm to anyone or any company. I am testing sat tv with equipment bought legally and I am not trying to get profit from anyone.

Infact, I saw the other day on the paper someone discovered a slick little $47 invention pulls in up to 953 crystal clear over-the-air digital TV shows Free with no monthly bills. Now what am I doing different? If this invention was illegal and passing free tv claim code for the public and having hotline people to call this illegal then we have a case.....what do you think . I just like your opinion. Thanks

OTA and true FTA are a whole different legal ball game compared to paying for encrypted satellite signals (IKS)that you are not legally purchasing from the provider direct after you modified your legal FTA receiver with 3rd party files.

[caretaker69]

again in the usa some never learn

[108mob]

Oh Boy hope him the best

[Night Prowler]

May be a naive question but how do we ( as individual end users) protect ourselves?

It is difficult to hide basic information from satfix such as email addresses and your resident addresses. I feel I am a legal
member of the community and I do no harm to anyone or any company. I am testing sat tv with equipment bought legally and I am not trying to get profit from anyone.

Infact, I saw the other day on the paper someone discovered a slick little $47 invention pulls in up to 953 crystal clear over-the-air digital TV shows Free with no monthly bills. Now what am I doing different? If this invention was illegal and passing free tv claim code for the public and having hotline people to call this illegal then we have a case.....what do you think . I just like your opinion. Thanks
it's a misleading ad.....you'll notice it says shows....not channels....all it is an indoor ota antenna.....

[fonger]

OTA picks up signals from a tranmitter that broadcasts freely... like rabbit ear antenna in the past.

[hondoharry]

a slick little $47 invention pulls in up to 953 crystal clear over-the-air digital TV shows Free with no monthly bills.

'Up to' is the catch. Sure, if you have 953 channels in your area which no area has. Otherwise you get whatever is broadcast OTA in your area.

hondo - playing with words

[ababa]

Thank you for the response, as Night Prowler pointed out..it is a misleading ad.


On the first part of my question " how do we protect ourselves" comments and opinions are very much appreciated.

thanks

[Anubis]

OTA picks up signals from a tranmitter that broadcasts freely... like rabbit ear antenna in the past.

Hey, I still have rabbit ears. I just can't get rid of the varmit.:tehe:

[Crazy Carl]

Hey, I still have rabbit ears. I just can't get rid of the varmit.:tehe:

love mine use my OTA every day, can't get much clearer of a picture otherwise

[Night Prowler]

Thank you for the response, as Night Prowler pointed out..it is a misleading ad.


On the first part of my question " how do we protect ourselves" comments and opinions are very much appreciated.

thanks

use proxy servers or mac clones......or to be 100% safe.....get a real sub and just don't do it.....there are all kinds of ways to watch tv......but better suited to talk about in the proper forums....not the Court Documents section....:thumbsup:

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

OTA and true FTA are a whole different legal ball game compared to paying for encrypted satellite signals (IKS)that you are not legally purchasing from the provider direct after you modified your legal FTA receiver with 3rd party files.


Yes free to air reception is perfectly legal in both Canada and the US. The law only addresses encrypted signals that require a payment and authorization from the legal provider of the encrypted signal.



GS2

[Terryl]

Thank you for the response, as Night Prowler pointed out..it is a misleading ad.


On the first part of my question " how do we protect ourselves" comments and opinions are very much appreciated.

thanks


"How do we protect our selves?"

Don't do any form of IKS..................Go back to watching free off air TV, or get a subbed reciver if you need TV that bad.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

May be a naive question but how do we ( as individual end users) protect ourselves?

It is difficult to hide basic information from satfix such as email addresses and your resident addresses. I feel I am a legal
member of the community and I do no harm to anyone or any company. I am testing sat tv with equipment bought legally and I am not trying to get profit from anyone.

Infact, I saw the other day on the paper someone discovered a slick little $47 invention pulls in up to 953 crystal clear over-the-air digital TV shows Free with no monthly bills. Now what am I doing different? If this invention was illegal and passing free tv claim code for the public and having hotline people to call this illegal then we have a case.....what do you think . I just like your opinion. Thanks


As an individual a good way to protect yourself is to becareful what you post. If they go after an end user and can tie the nick to the real name they will or can take posts you made and use them against you to demonstrate your not this innocent person. A lot of cases had evidence of self incriminating posts. It might be boring but always try different ways to express something that can not be pinned on you. You can refer to a third party. Instead of saying I tried the fix and it works great say someone I know tried it and said it worked fine but I do not know personally since I subscribed to the provider.


As far as purchasing well that is a potential problem if the vendor gets nabbed like Dark Angel. Have to avoid any paper trail back to yourself. Others might have ideas on that on how to avoid a paper trail. Always remember when a vendor says they don't keep records it is usually bullchit.When and if they get busted and its not true what they said about not keeping records they will not be around to explain why they lied or to help you. Their hands will be full and tied with their own legal problems. Don't fall for the line that they are offshore and everything is protected. That is not true and there is case law in existence with Internet providers ordered to turn over information. One case I can think of was in Hong Kong. The court might order that the information turned over can not be used to pursue end users but that might not be the case also.



GS2

[ababa]

GS2,
thanks great response. I think it is great for the community if we spend more time disussing how to pursue our hobby careful way than to write some unfortunate incidents to scare a hell out. Need more similar ideas appreciated. keep on coming I know I have a feeling that there are a lot of intelligent people in our neighborhood. thank you satfix

[Priestmill]

Well the Viewsat crew lost (can't remember now) thousands of virgin boxes and charged a fine for each box, that have never seen an N2 file. <br />
Original factory file only. So it's hard to determine if...

[fifties]

FTA reception of unencrypted signals is perfectly legal. <br />
<br />
The situation with Viewsat you are referring to was a result of the suit against Jung Kwak, which led to the wholesale liquidation of...

[dslchome]

FTA reception of unencrypted signals is perfectly legal.

The situation with Viewsat you are referring to was a result of the suit against Jung Kwak, which led to the wholesale liquidation of their warehouse, all merchandise and equipment, and even his snazzy car, to help satisfy the judgment against him.

If someone wants to verify whether or not the IKS server they are using is across the pond or wherever, here is a nifty little locator;

http://websitetrafficspy.com/


or you can google IP Look up or who is or if its a domain do a reverse IP look up.

however your tool is nice.

or you can use Visual Route.

[Priestmill]

Viewsat had a server? <br />
<br />
But anyway, as I mentioned, to be clear, Kwak was charged a fine for numerous (each) receivers not even out of box, you can refer to the court docs. <br />
So, and this was part...

[Deuteronomy]

what do you mean virgin state ? you sure there wasn't something else on them boxes besides virgin F/W, why else would one attempt to gain rom and have the info sent to Korea lol

[hondoharry]

It's been proven in court that some FTA receivers (like all the ones we use) have firmware and/or hardware that is only there to pirate DN and has no other practical use. I believe that's why they confiscated Kwak's virgin Viewsats.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

In the trial the plaintiffs alleged that the virgin boxes were intended to be used to accessed their signals illegally with the help of bins supplied by the defendant. <br />
<br />
<br />
In this situation the...

[noman]

It's about intent and marketing. You can't be selling legal fta on a site like this and then think the judge is going to side with the legal fta argument. That is the same as selling a legal iso programmer on a site that offers piracy code. In court it comes down to intent. Sure a fta receiver in virgin state is legal but not when marketed for illegal use. Some need to wake up and stop with this horse ****.


This goes back to the moron's who put clone kills in the bins. Why would a third party pirate care how or what is used to get free tv. Only someone with financial gain would do a thing like that. I think that is one of the biggest things that sunk any real battle in court by the fta guys.

[hondoharry]

It's about intent and marketing. You can't be selling legal fta on a site like this and then think the judge is going to side with the legal fta argument. That is the same as selling a legal iso programmer on a site that offers piracy code. In court it comes down to intent. Sure a fta receiver in virgin state is legal but not when marketed for illegal use. Some need to wake up and stop with this horse ****.

For sure the marketing program was against them but I still say the principal reason they confiscated virgin boxes was because they contained additional firmware/hardware used solely for pirating DN. Probably OK for us to buy and have them (in a virgin state) but not to be responsible for the manufacture, import and wholesale or you're subject to a lawsuit by DN.

[fifties]

but I still say the principal reason they confiscated virgin boxes was because they contained additional firmware/hardware used solely for pirating DN.
OK, this jogs my memory a bit.

At Kwak's trial, DN showed evidence of where they had an expert witness disassemble VS firmware, and reveal that it did in fact contain a ROM image to aid in receiving/descrambling Nagra encrypted signals. So yes, given that, the boxes themselves were in violation of the DMCA.

[hondoharry]

OK, this jogs my memory a bit.

At Kwak's trial, DN showed evidence of where they had an expert witness disassemble VS firmware, and reveal that it did in fact contain a ROM image to aid in receiving/descrambling Nagra encrypted signals. So yes, given that, the boxes themselves were in violation of the DMCA.

I believe I first saw the same evidence in the Pansat trial.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

I don't recall the confiscation of these virgin boxes. Was it part of the Civil judgment of 214 million ? If so the confiscation of these boxes could have been part of assets seized as part of the judgment award.



GS2

[pugsycan]

I thought that the confiscations of these boxes was because they had a mapcall (or something) imbedded in the factory file :noidea:
I don't recall the confiscation of these virgin boxes. Was it part of the Civil judgment of 214 million ? If so the confiscation of these boxes could have been part of assets seized as part of the judgment award.



GS2

[dslchome]

It's been proven in court that some FTA receivers (like all the ones we use) have firmware and/or hardware that is only there to pirate DN and has no other practical use. I believe that's why they confiscated Kwak's virgin Viewsats.

Yes, Viewsat had some dish pirateing software in the firmware out of the box... I Cleary remember that.

So even if you were say a TRUE FTA person and bought a Viewsat you bought a Illegal product.

That was dumb for Kwak to do that.

[LuckyLarry]

I thought that the confiscations of these boxes was because they had a mapcall (or something) imbedded in the factory file :noidea:

Good memory!

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

I thought that the confiscations of these boxes was because they had a mapcall (or something) imbedded in the factory file :noidea:


I know they made that allegation in their complaint as they have done in other lawsuits but I don't recall the confiscation myself. Not saying it did not happen. I know a lot of the seized assets were auctioned off including an expensive sports car.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Here is a quote from the final judgment of Pansat where it includes the embedded software. I believe that most if not all of the suppliers contained this software as don't know if it could work without it. Someone technical might know. Because of this it hurt the defendants and bolster the plaintiff's claims that the receiver were designed to circumvent their signals.



GS2

[hondoharry]

Here is a quote from the final judgment of Pansat where it includes the embedded software. I believe that most if not all of the suppliers contained this software as don't know if it could work without it. Someone technical might know. Because of this it hurt the defendants and bolster the plaintiff's claims that the receiver were designed to circumvent their signals.



GS2

See, I remembered that. Nice job, Goose. Looks like my Alzheimers is in remission, lol.

[dslchome]

See, I remembered that. Nice job, Goose. Looks like my Alzheimers is in remission, lol.

Yes that is correct.... they had dn code even in the out of the box bin.

that was DUMB!

[hondoharry]

Yes that is correct.... they had dn code even in the out of the box bin.

that was DUMB!

I think all our FTA boxes need that to work with Nagra, not in the factory bin but in the ROM/EEPROM.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Yes, Viewsat had some dish pirateing software in the firmware out of the box... I Cleary remember that.

So even if you were say a TRUE FTA person and bought a Viewsat you bought a Illegal product.

That was dumb for Kwak to do that.


It was a calculated risk. That by itself as being the only evidence would not have proved the piracy allegations, maybe some copyright infringement but added with other evidence it was very damaging.



GS2

[fifties]

Yes that is correct.... they had dn code even in the out of the box bin.

that was DUMB!
Not really; Nagra needed an expert to disassemble the VS firmware and reveal their image in it, and VS had been selling boxes for a good 4-5 years prior, the main intent of which was not for true FTA, although marketed as such.

If DN had not tied Phil to being paid by Kwak, something they had been trying to do for years, VS might still be in biz.

It was always a matter of being able to connect a coder with a box supplier that had eluded them, until our friend F. Raud stepped up to the plate.

[dishuser]

4-5 years?
really?

[fifties]

4-5 years?
really?
I dunno, that was just off the "top of my head". I thought VS started selling around 2005-2006 or so.

[lemming]

Not really; Nagra needed an expert to disassemble the VS firmware and reveal their image in it, and VS had been selling boxes for a good 4-5 years prior, the main intent of which was not for true FTA, although marketed as such.

If DN had not tied Phil to being paid by Kwak, something they had been trying to do for years, VS might still be in biz.

It was always a matter of being able to connect a coder with a box supplier that had eluded them, until our friend F. Raud stepped up to the plate.

Viewtwch was already in civil court when fraud worked with the fbi. TDG was also already in civil court. Also, it does not take any magic to disassemble the rom. And not really difficult to run a compare against nagras code to find the "barrowed" lines of copyrighted code. Couple that with the clone kill mentioned above, it was only a matter of time before echo brought them down.

[Deuteronomy]

I think all our FTA boxes need that to work with Nagra, not in the factory bin but in the ROM/EEPROM.

do you think it was coincidence that the same N2 bins used for telefonica were the same for N3 iks ?

nice to see everyone has the right idea however

[fifties]

Viewtwch was already in civil court when fraud worked with the fbi. TDG was also already in civil court. Also, it does not take any magic to disassemble the rom. And not really difficult to run a compare against nagras code to find the "barrowed" lines of copyrighted code. Couple that with the clone kill mentioned above, it was only a matter of time before echo brought them down.
Yes, DN had already instigated litigation against Viewsat/Pararex/Freetech in civil court, but it was F. Raud's testimony that led to the criminal indictments for conspiracy against Bob, Phil, and Jung Kwak; two entirely different actions.

Also agree that magic isn't involved in dis-assembling a bin (although far above my ken), but DN/Nagra had to wait until a link between the box suppliers and coders was established, before hiring an individual whose expertise could be relied upon in a court case.