Can a Spark Plug Freeze?

[Soah]

So I go to Jamaica to get out of the cold Canadian winter for a while but when I get home after leaving my truck parked in the driveway for 2 weeks I find myself un-able to start the thing.

I have checked the oil to make sure it was not slush and also the gas is clean of frozen water.
The motor turns over no problem but does not seem to fire.
Well I shouldn't say that. It sorta fires if I put the gas petal to the floor I can make it fire like a choo choo train. Once I let off the gas it dies.

Anyhow. My theory is only 1 or 2 of 8 spark plugs are firing so I was wondering can spark plugs freeze to the point they will no longer work?

They are new spark plugs 4 months old or so but their NGK high performance V tipped plugs.

Truck is a 1990 K1500, 5.7L Chevy, Throttle body injected.

Before I left for Jamaica the truck ran fine, No issues.

[JCO]

Never saw a frozen spark plug. I'd check and see if the motor got flooded when you tried to start it.. If it fires on some cylinders and not on others it could be the wires or coils. Check and see it there is any humidity n the rotor or a bad or cracked rotor that may also do it..
Or maybe the truck s saying next time take me to Jamaica too...LOL.
Also did you gap the plugs to the proper gap when they where installed??

[Soah]

Yeah the gaps are all good. Err well at least they were when I put them in.
I am at this time un-able to check the wires or rotor.
have not successfully managed to get my hood open yet, she is froze shut. haha

After work ill go pick up 8 new plugs (Non V Tipped)
And if i can get the hood to pop ill check the things you suggested.

Be kinda funny though if it were frozen spark plugs.

wish me luck.

[stman]

It sounds more like it's fuel starved to me. Could be a fuel filter.

[JimMrBass]

I would bet it is a bad fuel pump. Starving for gas.

[KYHI]

I would guess a bad choke valve as it is throttle body injected - but you are all right - it is staving for gas

Been there and had to do that..

[sal879]

sounds like its flooded hold gas pedal to the floor and turn ignition on this stops the fuel flow and keep crankin it till it starts to fire, keep crankin till it runs on its own the let up on gas. By putting gas to the floor this tells the ECM engine control module that the engine is flooded and will stop fuel flow. Otherwise if this does not work you will have to put the truck someplace warm pull the plugs and use an air compressor to blow out the cylinders.

[kev53]

Owned quite a few Chev trucks I think you should check the fuse that is located on the fire wall. If your looking at the firewall to the left from the centre of the truck you will see a black plastic cover there is two black thumb bolts undo them pull the cover off then you will see the fuse, this is probabley your problem. If after replacing the fuse you keep blowing more fuses on my 88 2500 I put a power window circit breaker in after blowing about 10 fuses never had a problem after that.
Good luck to you

[Soah]

Well thx guys,
Its none of the above lol.

I put the truck in the garage over night to thaw out.
Took a closer look now that I got the hood open.
The fuse tested fine, I know of the fuse. It is used on this truck to set timing. But even if it were blown the truck will still run.

I get spark on all spark plugs. Gas is fine. She does fire.
Rockers and valves are all lifting fine.

Almost seems the timing is way, and I mean way out. but can't see how that would change just sitting in the driveway.

Going to test compression today on all the piston's. Got this funny feeling I am going to be ripping the heads off by supper, perhaps I blew open some pistons on the cold start. :tehe:

[Soah]

Latest update.

Motor is shot.
Won't start because I don't have enough compression. 2 Pistons are at 60 PSI and the other range from 90 to 120.
Has to be the compression. I checked everything. I think.

Now, I wonder if the wife will let me buy a crate 502 big block to put in this truck lol

:grr:

[anyonomus]

Not so quick my friend..
Compression is dependent on timing..If the timing is out the compression will not be a true reading..
The timing allows the valves to be closed when the piston is at TDC (top dead center) ..If that timing is off..Then when the piston hits TDC..One of the valves could be open..Thus causing low or "no" compression on any one of the cylinders..
Pull the front Timing cover and set the timing properly ..THEN take a compression check/..
The old chain will do..If its a belt..Hmmm replace it first...then do a compression check..
Cheers
any


Latest update.

Motor is shot.
Won't start because I don't have enough compression. 2 Pistons are at 60 PSI and the other range from 90 to 120.
Has to be the compression. I checked everything. I think.

Now, I wonder if the wife will let me buy a crate 502 big block to put in this truck lol

:grr:

[burnsy]

Any is right compression may be low if a valve is open dude. It will not be a belt it's a chain and if it was running but won't re-start could be the timing chain jumped whenyou tried to start it

[Night Prowler]

hmmmm........if the timing did shift......the piston and valves wouldn't be in sync and possibly cause a valve to piston hit......

first I'd dump a little 30 weight into the suspect cylinders and redo a compression check.....this may tell if the rings are bad and the compression is bypassing......if you still get the same results..........I'd pull the heads.....check the piston head and valves for any damage...might be a bent valve.......it none present.....check the valves for burn and/or carbon build up that may lead to the valves not seating properly......

just my take on it.....;)

[n3uspeed2]

Not so quick my friend..
Compression is dependent on timing..If the timing is out the compression will not be a true reading..
The timing allows the valves to be closed when the piston is at TDC (top dead center) ..If that timing is off..Then when the piston hits TDC..One of the valves could be open..Thus causing low or "no" compression on any one of the cylinders..
Pull the front Timing cover and set the timing properly ..THEN take a compression check/..
The old chain will do..If its a belt..Hmmm replace it first...then do a compression check..
Cheers
any


hehe had to get Any started lol once he gets going no stoppin him lol

[1boxman]

Make shur you do the test wet and dry (compression test)..Wet= oil in cyclinders...about 1/2 oz...Crank with wide open throttle.. 4 revolutions .

By the sound of what you have said..You did flood engine....as stated above when you depress paddle to floor...It puts computer into flood mode...turns fuel off...allowing eng to clear its self . So if so you have washed down cylinder walls and you will get a low compression in them...If they are pretty even...with in 15 % of each other...I doubt the engine is bad...Try it wet..If it is still low....Check mechanical timing..

All so plugs that are fowled...will firer out side but not under compression .

I bet if you check the oil it will smell like gas .

But hey ..502 sounds good to me...

Cheers

[anyonomus]

Sorry to disagree here..IF by chance the timing is off and that can be checked easily...Any time that engine is turned the possibility of bending a valve or punching a hole in the piston is increased..
That engine should NOT be turned for any reason(wet or dry) ,except by hand,until the timing is set..JMHO
Cheers
any

[burnsy]

Any is right this engine has a chain driving the can if this jumped it will have moved things out by a substantial amount and tuning it over can cause more damage although from your description I don't think this is the issue remember these newer engines have allot of electronics and spark and fuel at the cylinder does not necessarily mean it will run

[1boxman]

I agree but this chev eng wil not slam the values...There is more than enough clearance...All if he did a test all ready its too late.

[anyonomus]

I agree but this chev eng wil not slam the values...There is more than enough clearance...All if he did a test all ready its too late.

So if the valves are bent or the timing is out and the valves are not bent.What would a wet or dry compression test do for him?
That is the part I can't follow..
If the valves are bent..wet or dry..Wrong/ none or little compression..as one or both the valve(s) are open at TDC
If the valves are not bent and the timing is out ...wet or dry...wrong or no compression. one or two Valves are open at TDC
The both valves have to be closed at TDC for the correct compression reading..
If the timing is off .How can he get an accurate reading????
So the easy solution would be to check the timing before removing heads or turning the engine unnecessarily ??except by hand..
But wadda I know..I am not a mecnicnic ..lol..
I am here for the fun..:)

[Terryl]

One question, how cold did it get?

And your truck is mad at you for leaving it out in the cold while you went somewhere warm.

My best guess is the rotor had condensation in it and it froze between the firing pins, this is why it wouldn’t start right up, and now you could have thrown a link or two in the timing chain due to the cold.(been there done that)

A quick test: Pull #1 spark plug, (disconnect the battery first) and use a socket wrench to run it up to top dead center (watch timing mark) and see if the #1 piston (you can use a wood dowel) is at TDC, if it is then you can reverse the compression gauge (bypass the one way valve) and use a small air compressor to see if you have a tight seal (don’t go over 50 PSI) watch the gauge to see if you have a slow leak (good) or it wont hold air at all (bad) this saves you from popping the timing chain cover (lot of work) if it wont hold air at all try rotating the engine a few degrees forward or backwards to see if it helps, if it gets better (over +-4 degrees) then you need to look at the timing chain.

[Soah]

One question, how cold did it get?

And your truck is mad at you for leaving it out in the cold while you went somewhere warm.

My best guess is the rotor had condensation in it and it froze between the firing pins, this is why it wouldn’t start right up, and now you could have thrown a link or two in the timing chain due to the cold.(been there done that)

A quick test: Pull #1 spark plug, (disconnect the battery first) and use a socket wrench to run it up to top dead center (watch timing mark) and see if the #1 piston (you can use a wood dowel) is at TDC, if it is then you can reverse the compression gauge (bypass the one way valve) and use a small air compressor to see if you have a tight seal (don’t go over 50 PSI) watch the gauge to see if you have a slow leak (good) or it wont hold air at all (bad) this saves you from popping the timing chain cover (lot of work) if it wont hold air at all try rotating the engine a few degrees forward or backwards to see if it helps, if it gets better (over +-4 degrees) then you need to look at the timing chain.

It got to about -54F while I was away. I didn't plug in the truck either cause the plug froze and snapped off before I left. Figured I would replace it when I got back which I did. heh.

I never thought to test spark vs TDC. Ill do that soon as I get off from work.
Last night I managed to get the motor to fire but it fired out the carb and hit the hood. haha.
She also back fired once. And my friend damn near crapped his pants. :tehe:

I am liking the idea of the timing chain slipping. Better that then no good piston's. Even though its a big job. I think I have to drop the oil pan, Which mean's lift the motor 3" because of the front differential.

Guess I will find out tonight :D
Thx Guys

[anyonomus]

Backfiring through the top end(carb) tells me the timing(if it jumped) jumped "forward" and one or more of the intake valves are open at TDC..
If the timing was jumped back ..It would backfire through the exhaust at TDC..
Cheers
any
PS:
There is no requirement to raise or lower the engine to check the timing..Also if it does need replacing it is done from the front of the engine not the bottom..




It got to about -54F while I was away. I didn't plug in the truck either cause the plug froze and snapped off before I left. Figured I would replace it when I got back which I did. heh.

I never thought to test spark vs TDC. Ill do that soon as I get off from work.
Last night I managed to get the motor to fire but it fired out the carb and hit the hood. haha.
She also back fired once. And my friend damn near crapped his pants. :tehe:

I am liking the idea of the timing chain slipping. Better that then no good piston's. Even though its a big job. I think I have to drop the oil pan, Which mean's lift the motor 3" because of the front differential.

Guess I will find out tonight :D
Thx Guys

[spudredhead]

the first thing i would do is take a little gas and pour it down the trottle body to try and prime it if it runs for a second it is a feul problem and not your timing . i live in prince edward island in canada and have alot of experience with cold and have had the same symptoms you decribed and it was a feul problem hope this helps.your feul filter could be frozen .or maybe you popped a frost plug

[JCO]

Backfiring through the top end(carb) tells me the timing(if it jumped) jumped "forward" and one or more of the intake valves are open at TDC..
If the timing was jumped back ..It would backfire through the exhaust at TDC..
Cheers
any
PS:
There is no requirement to raise or lower the engine to check the timing..Also if it does need replacing it is done from the front of the engine not the bottom..

Umm any sounds like you hit the nail on the head.

[Soah]

The reason for the 3" lift of the motor is so I can take the oil pan off.
The front of the oil pan is sealed up to the bottom of the timing chain cover.
In order to take off the TC cover I have to drop the oil pan.
Because my truck is 4x4 the front diff doesn't allow enough room for the oil pan to come out.

I attached a pic.

Needless to say if it is the TC I think I am going to pull the motor right out.
I want to replace my rear engine seal anyway and ill get to use my new engine stand.

I sure am liking the feed back guys. Sure does sound like a jumped chain.
Gawd I hope so.

Can't wait to go home to see. haha

[anyonomus]

I would still take #1 plug out as suggested earlier and bring it up on it's timing marks to see if it is actually out of time.Caution ..Turn the crankshaft (clockwise)with the proper socket after removing the neg cable from the battery..
Turning counterclockwise will loosen the crank bolt..and unless it's keyed ..It may actually turn the bottom pulley with the timing marks..


If you can see the distributor and remove the cover..The rotor will tell you when you are pointing at #1 as you turn the crank by hand..
The only thing it will not tell you is if it is on the compression or exhaust stroke..
The ideal thing would be to remove the valve cover(new gasket required for install) and watch until the rotor is pointing to #1 and both valves are closed on #1 piston..(hint..Look at the engine and you will see that one side of the motor is closer to the front than the other..The side that is closet to the "rad" is Number 1 cylinder.)(also the one with the shortest plug wire will tell you the same thing)
The timing mark should be pointing at TDC on the Harmonic Balancor or the bottom pulley..(big round thing on the front of the crankshaft with the timing marks on it)lol

Now all that being said..IF by chance the timing is dead on...
Replace the rotor and the distributor cap as suggested earlier ..A cracked cap could cause the cross-firing you are getting..
Cheers and good luck.
Any







The reason for the 3" lift of the motor is so I can take the oil pan off.
The front of the oil pan is sealed up to the bottom of the timing chain cover.
In order to take off the TC cover I have to drop the oil pan.
Because my truck is 4x4 the front diff doesn't allow enough room for the oil pan to come out.

I attached a pic.

Needless to say if it is the TC I think I am going to pull the motor right out.
I want to replace my rear engine seal anyway and ill get to use my new engine stand.

I sure am liking the feed back guys. Sure does sound like a jumped chain.
Gawd I hope so.

Can't wait to go home to see. haha

[JCO]

The reason for the 3" lift of the motor is so I can take the oil pan off.
The front of the oil pan is sealed up to the bottom of the timing chain cover.
In order to take off the TC cover I have to drop the oil pan.
Because my truck is 4x4 the front diff doesn't allow enough room for the oil pan to come out.

I attached a pic.

Needless to say if it is the TC I think I am going to pull the motor right out.
I want to replace my rear engine seal anyway and ill get to use my new engine stand.

I sure am liking the feed back guys. Sure does sound like a jumped chain.
Gawd I hope so.

Can't wait to go home to see. haha

Sounds to me like your looking for an excuse to pull the motor apart and then when its rebuilt and reinstalled youl change the distributor while your at it...LOL

[satdog]

dump a buncha methyl hydrate in dere eh! 1 cup to a full tank:auto:

[Terryl]

Well on a 5.7 liter Chevy block the only way to get the timing chain cover off its to pull the oil pan then the vibration dampener, this will let you get to the timing chain cover, you have to put the vibration dampener back on to see the timing marks, the vibration dampener is torqued to 60 ft pounds so your going to need at least a ¾ inch drive and a 5/8 inch deep socket to get it off, it is also keyed and you will need a dampener puller to remove it from the crank shaft. Removal of the radiator is also a good idea as you will need a large hammer and a block of wood to get it back on.

[Soah]

Sounds to me like your looking for an excuse to pull the motor apart and then when its rebuilt and reinstalled youl change the distributor while your at it...LOL

Haha :lolpound:
So true.

I was unable to get in the garage last night so will have to try again tonight to test what you suggested Any.

I have how ever the night before tried something that might be similar.
I took off my distributor cap and checked it for cracks or anything. It looked fine cept there was a little build up on the contacts so I cleaned them with sand paper.

I then hooked up my timing gun to the battery and spark plug one shooting the light at the Harmonic Balancer while my friend turned over the motor.
Prolly not a smart thing to do but I did see the line on the Harmonic Balancer and it was just little left of the timing guide.

I didn't check the valves though so Ill have to check that as you suggested.
I now have the valve covers off so I should be good to check it out tonight.

[Soah]

I think I have some bad news.

Piston #1 is at TDC.
Rotor is pointing to spark plug #1 wire for fire.
Harmonic Balancer line is pointing at Piston 1 also inline with the Timing guide.
Rockers are free of pressure which mean's valves are closed.

The rotor and cap are only 3 months old and don't seem to be broken.
Out of desperation should I go buy a new rotor and cap just to be safe?

Question, What about back pressure. Could that cause anything like this if say my exhaust didn't have enough?

Perhaps I should test all piston's at TDC and check the valves?

Guess I should of took the stupid truck to Jamaica :tehe:

[anyonomus]

That's great news not bad news..Timing is OK so now you go back to the cylinders are washed down by too much Gas..

Now is the time to do the wet test mentioned earlier..great directions are given in teh prior post.
Tablespoon of new/clean motor oil in each cylinder and check compression..
Remove dipstick and smell the oil on it..Any smell of Gas?Is the oil very thin?






I think I have some bad news.

Piston #1 is at TDC.
Rotor is pointing to spark plug #1 wire for fire.
Harmonic Balancer line is pointing at Piston 1 also inline with the Timing guide.
Rockers are free of pressure which mean's valves are closed.

The rotor and cap are only 3 months old and don't seem to be broken.
Out of desperation should I go buy a new rotor and cap just to be safe?

Question, What about back pressure. Could that cause anything like this if say my exhaust didn't have enough?

Perhaps I should test all piston's at TDC and check the valves?

Guess I should of took the stupid truck to Jamaica :tehe:

[Soah]

Ok did the test but didn't really see any difference.
Compression was still crap. Specially 1 at 60. Some 90 give or take.
120 on another. They were all over the place.

I checked the oil which looked like regular oil to me.
The smell was a little gassy I think, mainly smelt like oil though. Very hard to tell.
I put some in a beer cap and tried to light it on fire but that didn't work.
Figured if it was gas it should light right?
The oil was not thin or anything.

A friend stopped by that is more smarter then I when it comes to motors
(not that that takes much. lol) and he said the oil is fine.

He told me to check the chain. Told him of the timing test I did, Still told me to check the chain just to be safe.
I figure good enough, so with a fresh case of beer I started the tare down.

12 beers later I got to my chain, but it is bang on. The little dots line up perfectly. Chain is kinda loose though, I think. About 1" play.
I am going to add it to the list to replace since I am at it.

Tomorrow since its my day off Ill pull out the distributor. lol j/k
But I am going to tackle the heads. Hoping we will then know the problem.
Couple valves that won't seat is what I am hoping for. :thumbsup:

The cool thing is though, I sure am learning lots.
Thx guys for all the help.
Ill keep ya posted.