Court letter

[felipen]

Guy's I made the mistake of asking my girl friend to use her pay pal account to pay for two codes now the lawyers for dish network are sending her mail that if she does not pay them $5.000.00 they will take her to court. is this for real. any advice? thank you

[dishuser]

Guy's I made the mistake of asking my girl friend to use her pay pal account to pay for two codes now the lawyers for dish network are sending her mail that if she does not pay them $5.000.00 they will take her to court. is this for real. any advice? thank you
consult a real lawyer

[Algorithm]

Guy's I made the mistake of asking my girl friend to use her pay pal account to pay for two codes now the lawyers for dish network are sending her mail that if she does not pay them $5.000.00 they will take her to court. is this for real. any advice? thank you
Than I'm guessing you might have bought those codes from Wufman? Did she just recieve this mail or is it a follow up to a previous one? You may want to do some reading here and on other sites about this as your not the only one that got a letter an now I'm reading that ppl that aren't responding to it are even getting emails which looks to me like they are fishing. You can consult a lawyer. The choice is yours..

[hondoharry]

And she's still your girlfriend?

[smallyjohnson]

Than I'm guessing you might have bought those codes from Wufman? Did she just recieve this mail or is it a follow up to a previous one? You may want to do some reading here and on other sites about this as your not the only one that got a letter an now I'm reading that ppl that aren't responding to it are even getting emails which looks to me like they are fishing. You can consult a lawyer. The choice is yours..

i am in same boat.... refused to sign for registered letter ...then one arrived regular mail. demanding$ 3000.00... i did not respond... now a form letter of a lawsuit has arrived stating if i do not pay $5000.00 OR contact them before nov 28 they will file this...jokes on them ...if they are suing me in fed court they need to use the closest court to me..... the one the plan on filing in is not the closest it is 350 miles and the one they need to use is 45 miles .. bad bait no byte......:nopity:

[dl76]

have her go to bank and say she never made the purchase, get letter from bank, stating she didnt make the purchase, then send it to diknet

[jammmer]

In the past rounds of this bullying they have sent out BLANKETS of the letters and then randomly chosen a few to pursue Court proceedings with, hopefully u are not one of the "Chosen Few".

I would not do anything until PUSHED to, why stir the pot with contacting a lawyer, that admits knowledge of getting the letter, or in some cases guilt.

I cant believe anyone is naive enough to use Paypal for any ILLEGAL use......

Good Luck

Cheers

[felipen]

Long Beach CA.

[Gonzo21]

Hey i also got a letter in the mail but the funny part about this is that i didnt buy rhis codes and they have me email adress and they send me some nimbers saying that i have to pay $3500 in 30 days

[Anubis]

Hey i also got a letter in the mail but the funny part about this is that i didnt buy rhis codes and they have me email adress and they send me some nimbers saying that i have to pay $3500 in 30 days

Are you saying you received a demand letter and you never purchased IKS codes? How is it you are running IKS specifically satlobo?

[cheff]

If u get a letter you're basically screwed you'll have to pay cost more to defend.

[ranger]

When you get the Letter that documents Pay Pal purchase information and code information, it would seem, they have the information and plan to carry you to Federal Court !!!! (Good Luck and best wishes)

[Gonzo21]

What i am saying is that the ones that i bought from wulfman i never used them they never worked thats what i am saying is there a way out that anybody knows

[Anubis]

What i am saying is that the ones that i bought from wulfman i never used them they never worked thats what i am saying is there a way out that anybody knows

Doesn't matter if you used them or not. You still purchased them. Seek proper legal advice.

[lousat]

What i am saying is that the ones that i bought from wulfman i never used them they never worked thats what i am saying is there a way out that anybody knows

are you from USA or Canada, makes a difference I believe, heard that if in Canada you seem to be safer.

[Gonzo21]

No i live in USA has anybody gone to court over this

[hondoharry]

Many are saying they don't have the server logs and therefore don't have a case in court. Ignore them and they'll go away. It's a risk of course.

[Anubis]

Gonzo21. These are satellite forums not legal forums where lawyers congregate. For your own safety and peace of mind consult a lawyer regarding this. You should not be taking any legal advice whatsoever from a forum. Plain and simple.

[Gonzo21]

Thanks everybody i will see were this takes me a hope not to jail

[Gonzo21]

This law firm send me a copy of ip address and des key and my email address and they want me to pay $3500 and letter saying that i am not going any codes anymore in 30 days

[Anubis]

Hey i also got a letter in the mail but the funny part about this is that i didnt buy rhis codes and they have me email adress and they send me some nimbers saying that i have to pay $3500 in 30 days


This law firm send me a copy of ip address and des key and my email address and they want me to pay $3500 and letter saying that i am not going any codes anymore in 30 days

Oh Boy here we go!
What part did you miss in my last post? #20

[ICEMAN]

Gonzo21 you need to get your story together in your first post which is post #11 your saying that you didnt buy this codes
Now on your second post..Post#15 you saying that you did bought some codes...I think you are contradicting yourself..please
stop..and follow Anubis advice..seek propper legal advice..thank you and have a nice day...

[ranger]

Post #20 is excellent advise, just pretending it will go away, is unlikely ........... Lol

[fifties]

Hmm, take a look at Gonzo21's posts...He complains about Wufman, Satlobo, and getting letters from a law office...

DN stooge perhaps?

[Nostradamus]

No i live in USA has anybody gone to court over this

it won't take you to jail as it is a civil case. depending on your financial situation though it could take you to the poor house. get a lawyer

[Gonzo21]

Ok thanks guys i am just nervous i had never recieved a letter like this but thanks for the advise

[MarvinGardens]

Guy's I made the mistake of asking my girl friend to use her pay pal account to pay for two codes now the lawyers for dish network are sending her mail that if she does not pay them $5.000.00 they will take her to court. is this for real. any advice? thank you

This is very real. You should man up and get her a lawyer. She has a pretty good defense however you will be implicated as a part of her defense. Once she is cleared you should prepare yourself to having to negotiate a settlement on your own behalf.

[sammy]

just went from see the lawyer, and his advise literally was : "we can go to the court and i will represent you, but we can win or we can lose, depends of how mach evidence dish lawyers have against...

[caretaker69]

i doubt dn will take any1 2 court not enuff evidence NO SERVER just donation but thats my opinion.

[cheff]

i doubt dn will take any1 2 court not enuff evidence NO SERVER just donation but thats my opinion.
Who's willing to take the chance don't cost them hardly anything to file a case on you and in civil court only need 51% so win win for them it will cost you over 7000.00 to defend yourself.

[sammy]

i doubt dn will take any1 2 court not enuff evidence NO SERVER just donation but thats my opinion.

....well in my case they attach a sheet with my ip, my email, my address, the codes, that was sent to me, and i did some research by my self how did they get my physical address, and in some place was saying that they can get it through pay pal with some court permit or some sh*t like that (dont really know how true is that), but some how they get it, i suggest to every one in my situation, do some research and reading online ,maybe i was wrong

[Gonzo21]

So did you talk to the lawyer that was representing dish network and the let you agree on a payment plan

[Gonzo21]

Hey sammy thats what they sent me was a copy of codes that i bought my email address the ip address the port number and the des key numbers if thats not enough evedence i mean they cant prove that i used them but i am sure they can prove that i bought them

[Anubis]

So did you talk to the lawyer that was representing dish network and the let you agree on a payment plan

Read post #30.

[dishuser]

Read post #30.

probably wants confirmation since the agreement is you can't do it again for 3 years
and yet here they are saying they'll do it again
more money than brains...lol

[clarkie]

He gets payed 350.00 a hour ,, ya OK..lol ...i would of tossed the letter in the garbage and waited them out... its called the burden of proof....i dont care what they say they have on me....once you contacted them .. you were cooking like a Turkey dinner bud


PS that VPN set-up is starting to look good to a lot of people now i would think

[Limon]

Hey sammy thats what they sent me was a copy of codes that i bought my email address the ip address the port number and the des key numbers if thats not enough evedence i mean they cant prove that i used them but i am sure they can prove that i bought them

1.- they have the IP address of the server.... it's public knowledge, they do not mention your home's IP address.

2.- AFAIK they would have to link you to the server (server logs) which they don't have. If I buy a bootleg copy of Windows can they take me to court for buying it, or would they have to find it installed on my computer ??

[Gonzo21]

They say that they have a copy of of the privet server were he sent me the codes on the letter that they sent me they also say thay used computer softwere to discramble the signal

[dishuser]

They say that they have a copy of of the privet server were he sent me the codes on the letter that they sent me they also say thay used computer softwere to discramble the signal
really???lol

[Gonzo21]

They say that i used computer softwere to discramble the signal so i dont know i have an opointment with an autorney to see what he says will see

[MarvinGardens]

He gets payed 350.00 a hour ,, ya OK..lol ...i would of tossed the letter in the garbage and waited them out... its called the burden of proof....i dont care what they say they have on me....once you contacted them .. you were cooking like a Turkey dinner bud

Just the opposite. Once DN was put on notice that he has an attorney, DN cannot communicate with him directly anymore. DN must go through his attorney. That alone is worth the $250 he spent.

It's easy for someone to say that they would calmly wait and see if the process server comes knocking at their door when they have not received a $$$$ demand from DN.

Just look at all of the default judgments DN was able to get from DA end users.

Even though the DA end user ignored the law suit filed against them and did not show up in court, DN still had to make a showing to the court that they had a viable case against the end user before they could get a default judgment.

The point is that the evidence DN has against the DA end user is essentially the same evidence they have in this current round of litigation.

You have to face the hard reality that there is no legal defense for requesting and being in possession of codes that can only be used to decrypt DN's signal.

[fifties]

You never said whether or not you were actually served a summons to appear, along with a complaint filed in court against you, sent by the court clerk, or delivered by a process server. <br />
<br />
With all...

[dishuser]

Just the opposite. Once DN was put on notice that he has an attorney, DN cannot communicate with him directly anymore. DN must go through his attorney. That alone is worth the $250 he spent.

It's easy for someone to say that they would calmly wait and see if the process server comes knocking at their door when they have not received a $$$$ demand from DN.

Just look at all of the default judgments DN was able to get from DA end users.

Even though the DA end user ignored the law suit filed against them and did not show up in court, DN still had to make a showing to the court that they had a viable case against the end user before they could get a default judgment.

The point is that the evidence DN has against the DA end user is essentially the same evidence they have in this current round of litigation.

You have to face the hard reality that there is no legal defense for requesting and being in possession of codes that can only be used to decrypt DN's signal.

not quite
they never got server

[sammy]

You never said whether or not you were actually served a summons to appear, along with a complaint filed in court against you, sent by the court clerk, or delivered by a process server.

With all the discussion we have had about fishing expeditions, Why would anyone capitulate just on a letter?

Additionally, your posting, "depends of how mach evidence dish lawyers have against you", seems a bit ludicrous, given that that's what discovery is for, and I would think any lawyer worth his salt would determine that before even entering into a bargaining session with the other side.

Sorry, friend, but I don't trust you anymore than I do Gonzo21...

well like i say is just my case, i dont say that every one should do that, my job depends of traveling across all the country and i cant just leave what im doing in the place where im working and run to the court because i have a court citation. obviously i could wait and see what happen next or not happen, but i get the lawyer and just sharing what happen next, maybe somebody can get a better lawyer or just do nothing at all and at the end that just could be a big DN bluff

[Gonzo21]

What do you mean you dont trust me all i am saying is what says on the letter they sent me a copy of the codes that were sent to me the port number the des key and the ip and my email address i dont know why you dont trust me

[homer_™]

well like i say is just my case, i dont say that every one should do that, my job depends of traveling across all the country and i cant just leave what im doing in the place where im working and run to the court because i have a court citation. obviously i could wait and see what happen next or not happen, but i get the lawyer and just sharing what happen next, maybe somebody can get a better lawyer or just do nothing at all and at the end that just could be a big DN bluff

I'm surprised your attorney hasn't advised you to not discuss your case in the public forums....

[sammy]

what we really need in this tread is somebody with knowledge of laws who can explain to the people that receiving this letters what they should do and what not to do (so that way nobody else have to...

[sammy]

I'm surprised your attorney hasn't advised you to not discuss your case in the public forums....

............he did

[dishuser]

you need to learn when to fold them

[Gonzo21]

I havent seen any attorney yet i am going to see one on thursday i am just trying to get some advice to see if this has happend to some one else to see what they did

[homer_™]

............he did

Then you might want to give him a link to this thread your posting in. Just so there are no surprises during the discovery process.
You have to be honest with your lawyer or he/she can't help you.
Following their advice is key..... After all... that is what you paid for.

[Limon]

If he's using his same (old) nick then he's looking for trouble

[sammy]

If he's using his same (old) nick then he's looking for trouble

im not using old nick hahahaha and my attorney is not working for me anymore ..... to expensive

[fifties]

well like i say is just my case


What do you mean you dont trust me all i am saying is what says on the letter they sent me a copy of the codes that were sent to me the port number the des key and the ip and my email address i dont know why you dont trust me
Did either of you two characters get a summons to court, yes or no?

[MarvinGardens]

not quite
they never got server

DN does not need to have possession of the server when they have proof that the end user has possession of decrypt codes that can only be used for decrypting their signal.

Using your logic, the police need to have possession of the drug pusher to be able to convict you of drug possession. Non sense.

[hondoharry]

1.- they have the IP address of the server.... it's public knowledge, they do not mention your home's IP address.

I saw a PayPal activity report from one court case and it shows every login to PayPal with the IP addresses used. So they probably have your home IP address which is only pertinent if they pursue your ISP for their logs. No evidence they've gone that far . . . yet.

[dishuser]

DN does not need to have possession of the server when they have proof that the end user has possession of decrypt codes that can only be used for decrypting their signal.

Using your logic, the police need to have possession of the drug pusher to be able to convict you of drug possession. Non sense.
what logic?
you said the same and I pointed out the difference
where did I say anything about convictions or anything else?
using your reading skills a one page ad would become a novel...lol

[ranger]

Well sammy and others, I think it serves a good deed to share your information and warning with others, just how many problems can occur and the hazards that can occur with purchase and activity tracks ........... Thanks

[Gonzo21]

I did not get a summons to court all i got was a letter a certfied letter and on the letter it says that they are offering me a out of court deal to pay $3500 and a letter stating that i will not buy any iligel codes and they send a copy of the codes that i bought with port numbers and ip address and des key and my email address if dont agree to those terms they say that they will take me to court with any further notice thats what it says

[caretaker69]

u sent a donation rite not stating on paypal for codes i hope

[fifties]

I did not get a summons to court all i got was a letter a certfied letter and on the letter it says that they are offering me a out of court deal to pay $3500 and a letter stating that i will not buy any iligel codes and they send a copy of the codes that i bought with port numbers and ip address and des key and my email address if dont agree to those terms they say that they will take me to court with any further notice thats what it says
The letter of course is a fishing expedition, and I wouldn't respond to it myself, but your nerve threshold may be different.

You can see a lawyer, pay him the big bux, and have him settle with them like our friend Sammy did, or just sit tight, see if DN has the court send or have delivered a summons to you, and then see the lawyer.

Yes, DN has proof that you bought codes to be able to access their product via an IKS server. Do they also have proof that you have (a) a satellite receiver, and (b) a satellite dish antenna? Without those, all the codes in the world won't do any good.

In short, they may be able to show that you bought bullets, but have no proof that you actually used them, since they can't display that you own a firearm.

Your defense? "I bought the codes for a friend/I was going to get into this, but never bought the satellite stuff", or a variety of other excuses, none of which they could disprove.

[ranger]

I am not at all sure that is good advise, since I have read several times that the present United States Law states that just the purchase is unlawful and that there have been many very heavy Fines awarded .... Of course if you do not own anything, you may be good, however If you have assets, there may be a problem ......

[clarkie]

The first think ANY Attorney will tell u is, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHOUT..Period... i have no idea what you are talking about...Period... do you sub to any other TV service..DTV cable ?????? OTA...it might not hurt to pull down your dish , they do have P.I. that cruise around to c if they do in deed have a dish pointed at any of there Sats...just a thought

[ranger]

Here is some information that a Lawyer (G. Ruff) is Advertising !!!!!!!... I know nothing about him or what he is saying .......... IKS problem with Dish Network (Echostar)? You’re in the right place.

If you have received a demand letter regarding “IKS” reception of the Dish Network signal DO NOT IGNORE IT! These lawyers aren't sitting there wondering where they will find a process server – and if you ignore it, a very large federal civil judgment will issue against you – and once it issues, you're stuck – even bankruptcy won't get you out of it. Fortunately, you are not cornered, but you must take action now.


A “demand letter”, such as you have received, is based upon evidence that is typically gathered by professional investigators (frequently retired police investigators) and is sufficient to take the position they are taking. In other words, they have no doubt that they can prove it.



The rights owners have experienced attorneys who are prepared to commence a civil prosecution against you. Unless they can be convinced they have no claim, or a settlement occurs, a “Summons and Complaint” (usually returnable in your local Federal District Court) will be forthcoming).



Signal piracy civil prosecutions are conducted pursuant to Title 47 U.S. Code - a complex and little understood area of the law. Certainly, it will be very difficult for you to find a local lawyer who is familiar with it. In fact, many of my clients are actually other lawyers, who, having been called upon by one of their regular clients for help in this kind of situation, require my assistance to first understand the issues themselves. Moreover, I know of no one else on the defense side with my knowledge and experience as gained during the defense of hundreds of these cases.



Do not default (fail to respond to a Summons and therefor give the claimant the opportunity to magnify the claim against you in your absence; moreover, judges don't look kindly upon those who ignore a Summons). The consequences of ignoring this will lead to a significant federal judgment against you (an unauthorized exhibition case can run into five figures depending upon how the claimant presents the facts and the discretion of the judge).



It should be understood that as these are civil (rather than criminal) cases, the burden of proof is “preponderance of the evidence” or “which is the most likely” - not “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”. Accordingly, civil cases are generally much easier to prosecute (and therefore harder to defend) than criminal cases.



Moreover, it is very important to note that the signal provider (or rights owner) enjoys a unilateral (one-sided) right to attorney fees. That is: once a lawsuit commences, and if the claimant wins, the claimant has a legal right to make the defendant pay for claimant’s attorney; however, if defendant wins, defendant has no such right. (Doesn't sound fair, does it? However, it is true!)


Beware of legal misinformation on the forums. And “I bot it but I couldn't get it to work” is generally not a viable defense. However, my material will inform you as to what is a good defense.

[fifties]

I am not at all sure that is good advise, since I have read several times that the present United States Law states that just the purchase is unlawful and that there have been many very heavy Fines awarded ....
Please post a reference to codified law stating that the purchase of a sub to an IKS operation is illegal.

Going further, if that were so, then it is a matter for criminal court. DN would sue in civil, and the argument about not having the necessary equipment to complete the deed stands. Dave lost a case many years ago when they couldn't prove that the defendant owned a satellite dish, FYI.

[Stephen0]

The letter of course is a fishing expedition, and I wouldn't respond to it myself, but your nerve threshold may be different.

You can see a lawyer, pay him the big bux, and have him settle with them like our friend Sammy did, or just sit tight, see if DN has the court send or have delivered a summons to you, and then see the lawyer.

Yes, DN has proof that you bought codes to be able to access their product via an IKS server. Do they also have proof that you have (a) a satellite receiver, and (b) a satellite dish antenna? Without those, all the codes in the world won't do any good.

In short, they may be able to show that you bought bullets, but have no proof that you actually used them, since they can't display that you own a firearm.

Your defense? "I bought the codes for a friend/I was going to get into this, but never bought the satellite stuff", or a variety of other excuses, none of which they could disprove.


fifties i agree with you 100%. This is just a fishing expedition and scare tactic used by the lawyers to get money from the easy people and scare off the current users. Back in the days with the dave hacks was pretty much the same story. Sent out certified letters to all the customers of a hacker that was bought out (like Wuf). Only a handful gave in and paid up and the rest got out of the game. I used a friends paypal to get codes from Wuf and im not sure if he has recieved a letter. Hell come to if he does and ill be sure and tell him not to do anything with it. I would say dont admit guilt and get out the game if you receive/recieved a letter but if you want to clear your soul, do what sammy did and turn yourself in and pay the piper.

[fifties]

Moreover, it is very important to note that the signal provider (or rights owner) enjoys a unilateral (one-sided) right to attorney fees. That is: once a lawsuit commences, and if the claimant wins, the claimant has a legal right to make the defendant pay for claimant’s attorney; however, if defendant wins, defendant has no such right. (Doesn't sound fair, does it? However, it is true!)
That may be, but there is nothing stopping a successful defendant from then taking the litigant plaintiff to small claims court and suing for monetary damages in the form of the legal defense costs incurred because of the plaintiffs action. Here in Cali, the limit is $7,500, which should cover this kind of fee.



Beware of legal misinformation on the forums. And “I bot it but I couldn't get it to work” is generally not a viable defense. However, my material will inform you as to what is a good defense.
Yes, your material for a price (not aimed at ranger, but rather who he quoted). If someone claims that he couldn't get it to work, that would indicate that he has the hardware to do it, so it's a ridiculous defense. They would have to prove that the defendant owned a satellite receiver.
AFA a dish, should a picture of one at the defendants home during discovery arise, the excuse that "it was there when I moved into the house, might be difficult for them to disprove.

[alex70olds]

Please post a reference to codified law stating that the purchase of a sub to an IKS operation is illegal.

Going further, if that were so, then it is a matter for criminal court. DN would sue in civil, and the argument about not having the necessary equipment to complete the deed stands. Dave lost a case many years ago when they couldn't prove that the defendant owned a satellite dish, FYI.

Here is where that concept came from. Dish has got some courts to agree that bins first, then CW, then Pass Codes, are in themselves "devices" that violate the DMCA and FCA. Now, these judgements have never been in front of a Jury, nor have they ever been upheld in the court of appeals. Satfta filed an appeal in his case, but Dish immediatly negotiated a settlement. You and I also personally know someone that this has happened simalarly. In that case Dish got a huge judgement based on the number of times a file was down loaded. We both know the exact settlement was WAY lower than what was advertised, and this was in part a direct way to not have the claims (in that case bin) challenged. Since that case, dish sites it trying to consider cw and pass codes the same as a bin. Crazy, but to add to your point, dish themselves point out that it is necessary to have a receiver etc. See attached Razor case docs.

@13X

Good 2cu bro!

16922

[MarvinGardens]

Actually it is a crime for some people to simply purchase/own ammunition even though they do not own a firearm. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
That defense is as worthless as someone charged with illegally downloading...

[MarvinGardens]

Yes, DN has proof that you bought codes to be able to access their product via an IKS server. Do they also have proof that you have (a) a satellite receiver, and (b) a satellite dish antenna? Without those, all the codes in the world won't do any good.

This may in fact be a viable defense. The fact that DTV could not prove that a defendant owned the necessary equipment to complete the act of infringement cost them to lose many cases.

DN however has learned from DTV's court failures and has in the past only gone after defendants who also were past or present DN subs, This is because DN knew that at some time you had the required satellite equipment.

If those who are receiving demand letters are current or past DN subs then that is all DN needs to prove their case.

edit: I should note that in the cases that DTV lost, it was also noted by the court that the devices purchased by the defendants could also be used for innocent purposes other than for decrypting DTV's signal.

As to all others is would appear to be a crap shoot as to whether a court would rule against you for possession of codes that have no legitimate purpose other than to violate DN's copyrights.

[audi2005]

I like this one (still need proof )

[fifties]

Good 2cu bro!

Likewise!



This may in fact be a viable defense. The fact that DTV could not prove that a defendant owned the necessary equipment to complete the act of infringement cost them to lose many cases.

DN however has learned from DTV's court failures and has in the past only gone after defendants who also were past or present DN subs, This is because DN knew that at some time you had the required satellite equipment.

If those who are receiving demand letters are current or past DN subs then that is all DN needs to prove their case.

edit: I should note that in the cases that DTV lost, it was also noted by the court that the devices purchased by the defendants could also be used for innocent purposes other than for decrypting DTV's signal.

As to all others is would appear to be a crap shoot as to whether a court would rule against you for possession of codes that have no legitimate purpose other than to violate DN's copyrights.
Dave also went after his own subs; I saw an accounting, maybe a dozen years ago, where a DTV subscriber was deposed by Dave's attorneys. He apparently downgraded his subscription after having purchased piracy equipment, from an outfit that Dave had busted, and obtained sales receipts from.
They cross referenced those names with their subscriber list, and then proceeded to sue.

So yes, having a sub and also using IKS could indeed be considered added exposure.

AFA DTV losing cases where the devices were shown to be of use beyond signal piracy, it was only after some time had elapsed with Dave running roughshod over the court system that that occurred.

[ranger]

Fifties, Google Lawyer Gary Ruff and read his stuff and advise what you think ....I simply do not have any knowledge about any of this, but now have the opinion that PP can be a real problem !!! (It has many pages on this subject)

[fifties]

Ranger, other than referencing the Dark Angel situation, the rest of the cases he displays are from 2003-5, concerning Dave litigation, which involved the proven purchase of pirate assisting devices (unloopers, programmers, bootboards, etc.), and the laws have actually changed a bit (in our favor) since that period.

A device that can be used for piracy is no longer considered as having been purchased just in that narrow definition. Dave made ppl pay who had bought card programmers for totally unrelated reasons, simply because they were cheaper at so-called pirate websites.

Back to Ruff; if you D/L his retainer agreement, it requires a payment of $299 (which looks cheaper than $300) for his advice, which I imagine will refer one to his "Unauthorized Exhibition Defense Lab", for only 49 bucks (which looks cheaper than $50).

Times are different than with Dave, and so far we only know that DN's hands are tied, beyond where they can take over a server, to ID the subs. I have yet to see litigation, for example, of anyone busted who subbed via the Wufman.

IKS is a risk, make no mistake about it. So far though, the odds of getting caught seem minimal, if one doesn't leave a paper trail (read "PayPal"), and ensures that the operator, as well as the server, are beyond the reach of U.S. or Canadian law.

[bkr™]

Since the time of response as published seems to have expired for these demand letters issued, it will be interesting to see what really will transpire in the near future. Hopefully nothing, but I am sure many are awaiting to see.

[iq180]

Just the opposite. Once DN was put on notice that he has an attorney, DN cannot communicate with him directly anymore. DN must go through his attorney. That alone is worth the $250 he spent.

It's easy for someone to say that they would calmly wait and see if the process server comes knocking at their door when they have not received a $$$$ demand from DN.

Just look at all of the default judgments DN was able to get from DA end users.

Even though the DA end user ignored the law suit filed against them and did not show up in court, DN still had to make a showing to the court that they had a viable case against the end user before they could get a default judgment.

The point is that the evidence DN has against the DA end user is essentially the same evidence they have in this current round of litigation.

You have to face the hard reality that there is no legal defense for requesting and being in possession of codes that can only be used to decrypt DN's signal.
lol, i see the fishing crew is still here, and no this is not the same as the DA case because in this case they dont have the server logs,
and if you got your code from a PM at some fta site they cant prove you you ever got a code, and if you did not put a note on your PP, then they cant prove you ever asked for a code, no server logs, no case, all they have is you sent money to some old man
thats it, JMO.

[homer_™]

lol, i see the fishing crew is still here, and no this is not the same as the DA case because in this case they dont have the server logs,
and if you got your code from a PM at some fta site they cant prove you you ever got a code, and if you did not put a note on your PP, then they cant prove you ever asked for a code, no server logs, no case, all they have is you sent money to some old man
thats it, JMO.

Yeah...There must have been a half a dozen threads of about his wife or somebody being ill...
There are some compassionate people out there... Who's to say people weren't sending him money to help with his medical expenses

[bkr™]

Is not that we as members here were doing when we had a member here requesting help for medical expenses for the family of a fellow member needing $$ for medical expenses? Or were we doing something wrong with helping out?

[dishuser]

Is not that we as members here were doing when we had a member here requesting help for medical expenses for the family of a fellow member needing $$ for medical expenses? Or were we doing something wrong with helping out?

and what percentage put for p$ instead of fake dying wife?

[smallyjohnson]

Yeah...There must have been a half a dozen threads of about his wife or somebody being ill...
There are some compassionate people out there... Who's to say people weren't sending him money to help with his medical expensesexactly plus...his stepson got killed in the car wreck....always send it as a "gift"....do note on the last batch of letters it said respond by 11/28/2012

[Recove52]

Each must make there own choice just as they have in the past....they can read whats been posted as far as other peoples opinions but how much is a post worth in a court room...not much to the defender....but can be quite alot to the prosecutor...

[dishuser]

Your post should be removed before it puts this site in jeopardy

[ftaalltheway]

Each must make there own choice just as they have in the past....they can read whats been posted as far as other peoples opinions but how much is a post worth in a court room...not much to the defender....but can be quite alot to the prosecutor...

to me its like,,,if this was strickly a PP issue, we would see thousands
upon thousands of these letters,,,i simply cannot belive any of this would
hold any water in court.

fishing expiditions can sometimes scare you into giving in B/C that
is exactly what DN wants, SCARE YOU...iks is not a true meaning
of PIRACY as was in past when end users were actually decrypting signals

just look at all of their (DN) latest ploys over the past 4-5 yrs ALL those ploys
FAILED,,,except for those who caved ,,,and i remind again to that poster

this is very different form DA case

if all DN needed was the info that has been posted, so far?? think about it guys

so many many more end users would feel their wrath,,,this is only one small fish
trying to make dent in hobby,,,im not buying, smells too fishy,,, imo

lest we forget, no one has one idea of how far DN can go as it relates to
any "Statute of Limitation" on these codes bought and/or used..cuz if
there is none?? how bout all those bins that were loaded from all those sites
they shut down etc etc...this is so ridiculous it makes my blood boil when i see/read
an enduser falling prey to these tactics..but it is what it is,,,this world is full of this shaite
and worse

[ranger]

Everyone who has received the letter should do what they see fit and likely should seek Good Legal Advise and your advise is Not That ......

[ftaalltheway]

Everyone who has received the letter should do what they see fit and likely should seek Good Legal Advise and your advise is Not That ......

most lawyers arent the least bit interested in this shiate
unless you want to retain them
and for anyone who does get advice from a lawyer
can afford to take it to court,,,and you dont even need
representation in these cases,,,go to court and make DN
prove their case,,,and
clear this up once and for all

then and only then once this is set as pecident, we can all know
what is what

so,once i read about an enduser
being found guilty after all evidence has been presented BY BOTH SIDES
as a result of simply donating for a code???

ill continue to see this for what it is,,,

[ShotGun]

Fishing,,, like a fake ebay or a fake pay pal,,,,, naw no way get out of here,,,,,everything thats said on the Net is TRUE,,,!
Hell if a feller was smart he could fake this chit and make some coin,,,,,, aw,,,, hell why didn`t I think of that?
Like a pet Rock,,,,,Glue some eyes on it,,,, someone will buy it [w00t!~]

[ftaalltheway]

Fishing,,, like a fake ebay or a fake pay pal,,,,, naw no way get out of here,,,,,everything thats said on the Net is TRUE,,,!
Hell if a feller was smart he could fake this chit and make some coin,,,,,, aw,,,, hell why didn`t I think of that?
Like a pet Rock,,,,,Glue some eyes on it,,,, someone will buy it [w00t!~]

hahahaha you just helped remind me of a word relating to these letters

"Extortion" ;)

[dishuser]

to me its like,,,if this was strickly a PP issue, we would see thousands
upon thousands of these letters,,,i simply cannot belive any of this would
hold any water in court.

fishing expiditions can sometimes scare you into giving in B/C that
is exactly what DN wants, SCARE YOU...iks is not a true meaning
of PIRACY as was in past when end users were actually decrypting signals

just look at all of their (DN) latest ploys over the past 4-5 yrs ALL those ploys
FAILED,,,except for those who caved ,,,and i remind again to that poster

this is very different form DA case

if all DN needed was the info that has been posted, so far?? think about it guys

so many many more end users would feel their wrath,,,this is only one small fish
trying to make dent in hobby,,,im not buying, smells too fishy,,, imo

lest we forget, no one has one idea of how far DN can go as it relates to
any "Statute of Limitation" on these codes bought and/or used..cuz if
there is none?? how bout all those bins that were loaded from all those sites
they shut down etc etc...this is so ridiculous it makes my blood boil when i see/read
an enduser falling prey to these tactics..but it is what it is,,,this world is full of this shaite
and worse
so the user can't be punished?only the pusher?
how did that work out for you when you got caught with dope?

[ShotGun]

I need some dope Muff and I want the 400 dollar a lid stuff,,,,, now you mentioned it....:)

[Nostradamus]

...iks is not a true meaning
of PIRACY as was in past when end users were actually decrypting signals



and how did you come to that conclusion? If anything IKS is a more blatant than any N2 bin file ever was. N2 they had to catch you with a file on your receiver and just watching tv. It was too easy to say you were just reading an interesting article and got up to take a whizz and while you were gone the cat walked across the keyboard and downloaded a file.

now they have both a paper trail and a possible IP trail right to your door and it really doesn't matter how you get the control words. Whether the software detects or deduces them or they are streamed over the internet. If you are not paying for them then you are a PIRATE and Perry Mason is not going to save your butt

[kyzursozay]

Perry Mason is not going to save your butt
Perry Mason ........... PERRY f*****g MASON ..... wow there really are some old-timers still around besides fifties........ lol........ I'd of though Johnnie Cochran maybe ........ with all the grief fat white old guys are taking ........

[fifties]

........ with all the grief fat white old guys are taking ........
Yeah, let's show a little respect...



http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4199/mroldfart.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/89/mroldfart.jpg/)

[jazmine]

Perry Mason ........... PERRY f*****g MASON ..... wow there really are some old-timers still around besides fifties........ lol........ I'd of though Johnnie Cochran maybe ........ with all the grief fat white old guys are taking ........ I am no Mason or Johnnie. But I would say if you have any assets of any kind to watch your butt .

[jvvh5897]

lest we forget, no one has one idea of how far DN can go as it relates to
any "Statute of Limitation" on these codes bought and/or used..cuz if
there is none??

Statute of limitation is 3 years in the USA--it is set in the Millenium Digital Copyright Act. At least, Copyright violation seems to be the main attack point that DN is using.

[ftaalltheway]

Statute of limitation is 3 years in the USA--it is set in the Millenium Digital Copyright Act. At least, Copyright violation seems to be the main attack point that DN is using.

exactly my point,,,where are all the other thousands and thousands
of letters sent ??? you think DN only targeted wuf??
thousands of codes/donations
were sold and many more bins dll'd over these past iks yrs
blah blah blah wuf was/is NOT the only reseller??

naw, every now and then this ploy has been in play, by DN

trust me, they have access to all p$ and perhaps started one of their own
that some of us have connected to already and they have many thousands of
IP logs that can point to many of our butts yet we are to believe that this is down to
PP alone??? come on man
yet, NOT one peep has the balls to take this all the way to court??
just to prove a point?? i knows some of us have the $$$ to represent
oneself and put the onous on DN top prove their case?

what would it cost a peep to do at least that much if only to
help out the community, moving forward, as to what exactly they have on top
of what these letters , state??? its called "disclosure", FULL disclosure

until THAT happens,,, these tactics will continue,,, common sense dictates

so now, what about coming after peeps who dll'd bins, who according to
many other sites , some gone, that DN told them they had to remove
all files if they wish to continue bizz?? am i to belive that making
a donation to get a code is more proof that im receving CW
than that of dll'ing a bin to alter an FTA IRD????

again, make DN prove their claim in civil court and see if
that judge finds the amount they are seeking to be reasonable,
let alone prove you connected to an iks server,,,those who dont get it?
youd think after all these yrs ONE peep (enduser)
getting one of these letters would go to court??
sorry, still not buying

[dishuser]

I see stupid people

[ftaalltheway]

so the user can't be punished?only the pusher?
how did that work out for you when you got caught with dope?

erm,,,, lemme think,,,,,,,,

so, what your saying, is, that "WANTED" poster on satscums
to locate these p$ should apply to endusers, as well?? gee wonder
what DN would think about THAT concept??? maybe you should
send them off an email,,, lol

[fifties]

I see stupid people
You can say that again.

[ranger]

Amen brother, Some people should do more reading !!!

[havenlyskyhigh]

Let me pin pointed in the old days peep had cable boxes scramble is it cable company after them and brought them to court.
I never heard or see any cable company get someone is justice the price by cable wire ran to their house.

[dishuser]

erm,,,, lemme think,,,,,,,,

so, what your saying, is, that "WANTED" poster on satscums
to locate these p$ should apply to endusers, as well?? gee wonder
what DN would think about THAT concept??? maybe you should
send them off an email,,, lol

maybe you should get a brain goof
go see the wizard

[dishuser]

Let me pin pointed in the old days peep had cable boxes scramble is it cable company after them and brought them to court.
I never heard or see any cable company get someone is justice the price by cable wire ran to their house.

get a pacer account
thousands of cases

[Nostradamus]

get a pacer account
thousands of cases

they cost much? wouldn't want to cut into his dope account and ruin our entertainment LOL

[bandit]

so much fun?o wait theres a fly on the wall ive been chasing for days brb

[BPG]

if you are a reseller and think that satscums doesn't have your name, your stupid ! sorry, that's a fact, I was told that by the "Men in black" themselves .... They bought one from me, and told me that they have got many from this and many other sites as well.... and they test them also to make sure that they do in fact work..... lol....he even complimented on how well newgen worked....lol....

Wuf gave up the info, and from what I have read, he gave up the entire bank.... So, Yes, many got letters.... I don't know who they targeted or why.... personally , I think wuf should've kept his damn mouth shut ....f***ing snitch!
End result, if you got a letter, consult a lawyer, or ignore it and see what happens.... don't go solely on what you read on a web site....make your own mind up ..... A lawyer isn't cheap .... I paid $5,000 and after 2 weeks, he wanted another $5K....
I wouldn't had a problem fighting all the way to court, but I didn't have 10's of thousands of dollars for a lawyer ....

I don't have any money for them to sue me for..... lol.....if they follow through, I put them right after that old cable bill I didn't pay back in 2001 ......lol .....in that order...Lmao!

BPG~

[VATO LOCO]

"Men in black" themselves .... They bought one from me, and told me that they have got many from this and many other sites as well.... and they test them also to make sure that they do in fact work."

humm i wonder if they give themselves a letter right after they test the code. after all the min they recv 1 cw they are in violation also. it's like the dea agent taking a big hit of the newly confiscated crack he just got from his recent bust. guess they will be seated right next to you when your in court.

[felipen]

An update on my letter. I paid $5,000.00 thanks to the Wuf. an my stupidity I hope it does not happen to you guy's. Good Luck.

[fifties]

An update on my letter. I paid $5,000.00 thanks to the Wuf. an my stupidity I hope it does not happen to you guy's. Good Luck.
Sorry to hear that.
So how far did it go? Did they have you served with a summons to court, or was their letter, by itself, the motivating factor? IIRC, you had gotten an attorneys advice?

[ajax101]

Sorry to hear that.
So how far did it go? Did they have you served with a summons to court, or was their letter, by itself, the motivating factor? IIRC, you had gotten an attorneys advice?

You beat me to the punch with your reply.
Im also anxious to know if you were served, or moved by the letters?.
I got my second letter a few weeks ago demanding $5k instead of the original $3500. Im still on the fence wether to reply or not. Nowthinking of consulting legal advise tomorrow. Not exactly how I wanted to spend my week off.

[Dirt]

exactly my point,,,where are all the other thousands and thousands
of letters sent ??? you think DN only targeted wuf??
thousands of codes/donations
were sold and many more bins dll'd over these past iks yrs
blah blah blah wuf was/is NOT the only reseller??

naw, every now and then this ploy has been in play, by DN

trust me, they have access to all p$ and perhaps started one of their own
that some of us have connected to already and they have many thousands of
IP logs that can point to many of our butts yet we are to believe that this is down to
PP alone??? come on man
yet, NOT one peep has the balls to take this all the way to court??
just to prove a point?? i knows some of us have the $$$ to represent
oneself and put the onous on DN top prove their case?

what would it cost a peep to do at least that much if only to
help out the community, moving forward, as to what exactly they have on top
of what these letters , state??? its called "disclosure", FULL disclosure

until THAT happens,,, these tactics will continue,,, common sense dictates

so now, what about coming after peeps who dll'd bins, who according to
many other sites , some gone, that DN told them they had to remove
all files if they wish to continue bizz?? am i to belive that making
a donation to get a code is more proof that im receving CW
than that of dll'ing a bin to alter an FTA IRD????

again, make DN prove their claim in civil court and see if
that judge finds the amount they are seeking to be reasonable,
let alone prove you connected to an iks server,,,those who dont get it?
youd think after all these yrs ONE peep (enduser)
getting one of these letters would go to court??
sorry, still not buying

You go first be the leader and the rest will follow

[MarvinGardens]

what would it cost a peep to do at least that much if only to
help out the community, moving forward, as to what exactly they have on top
of what these letters , state???

In the neighborhood of $25,000.

[Gonzo21]

Hey felipen did you have to go to court

[felipen]

I was advice by my Lawyer to pay. In court they are collecting 10,000 and wining the cases.

[fifties]

I was advice by my Lawyer to pay. In court they are collecting 10,000 and wining the cases.
I am surprised that you didn't ask your lawyer to contact them, and at least get it down to the original $3500.

Even paying him for an hour of his time would have ended up totaling less, or did he not want to negotiate for you?

[scooterboy]

How would this lawyer no they are getting that amount of money and winning in court ? Its to early . People just started getting these letters in mid September . It takes a lot longer than three month for a case to go to court .

[dishuser]

How would this lawyer no they are getting that amount of money and winning in court ? Its to early . People just started getting these letters in mid September . It takes a lot longer than three month for a case to go to court .

prior settlements
never read about any?

[scooterboy]

prior settlements
never read about any? Wasn't talking about settlements . I was talking about court dates . I haven't heard of any of these letters from mid September making it to court so for .

[dishuser]

Wasn't talking about settlements . I was talking about court dates . I haven't heard of any of these letters from mid September making it to court so for .

you asked how lawyer came to the 10k amount and now you know

[tbird686]

has anyone posted letters from bev???

[Glock20C]

An update on my letter. I paid $5,000.00 thanks to the Wuf. an my stupidity I hope it does not happen to you guy's. Good Luck.

Sorry for your troubles..
do you know what evidence was used to get a judgement on you ?
payment records, Ip address or both?
did the snitch even have the IP addresses?
thanks

[cheff]

The only proof they have is that you purchased a code thru p.p. That's all they need. ;)

[Oldschool]

Sorry for your troubles..
do you know what evidence was used to get a judgement on you ?
payment records, Ip address or both?
did the snitch even have the IP addresses?
thanks
He didn't let it go that far - He settled before any kind of court !

[iq180]

not one has gone to court, and i dont think nagra wants to go to court, i think they would have to prove you used the code, and they cant, not without the server logs that they dont have, its not elegal to give money to some old man and thats what it comes down to, no server logs = no case=JMO.

[dishuser]

not one has gone to court, and i dont think nagra wants to go to court, i think they would have to prove you used the code, and they cant, not without the server logs that they dont have, its not elegal to give money to some old man and thats what it comes down to, no server logs = no case=JMO.

so I can buy coke I just can't get caught using it....lol

[BPG]

so I can buy coke I just can't get caught using it....lol

That's almost crazy enough to work.....lmao....

[iq180]

so I can buy coke I just can't get caught using it....lol
its not elegal to give a coke dealer money lol, but they must prove you got the coke, if they cant prove you got it then they have no case, same thing as an iks code, the code is just numbers if you dont use them,=no server logs no case=JMO.

[ranger]

I do not think your advise is sound or the way the Law is !!! I have read that the letters show purchase date, code numbers, your E-Mail, your address and all PP information, I assume all came from the Wuf ......... Lol

[JCO]

its not elegal to give a coke dealer money lol, but they must prove you got the coke, if they cant prove you got it then they have no case, same thing as an iks code, the code is just numbers if you dont use them,=no server logs no case=JMO.

Have you heard about intent.. The codes are considered the COKE in these cases, buying them is a criminal offense.. You dont need to use the coke just purchasing it, even if its just cut could lead you to jail..LOL

[fifties]

Originally Posted by scooterboy
Wasn't talking about settlements . I was talking about court dates . I haven't heard of any of these letters from mid September making it to court so for .
you asked how lawyer came to the 10k amount and now you know
What is prayed for in a lawsuit, vs what is actually awarded, can be two very different things, and IDK if there is any sort of track record yet, like Dave had developed a dozen years ago, to which DN can point to as a reference.

It would be good if someone who has actually been served with a complaint and summons to court could post how much they are being sued for.

That said, there is no question that settling out of court would be far cheaper than going through litigation, because if the defendant loses, he has to pay their legal bills, as well as his/her own, in addition to any judgment rendered. And if he wins, he is still out his own legal fees.

A friend of mine spent 5 grand on her attorney, successfully defending herself against Dave's attempted $5K legal extortion in court. It still cost her the money, her only satisfaction being that Dave didn't get any of it.

Personally, if I were doing IKS and had to go through a litigation by them and I won, I would then sue them in small claims court for their causing me economic damage due to my legal defense cost. This of course assumes I could win in the first place...

[ezbass]

The point everyone seems to be missing is, are these civil or criminal charges? If they are civil, DN has to prove an amount of damages due to the end users use of the donations, How much is a DN...

[Anubis]

It's a civil matter. Go back to the first post then read the whole thread. It may shed some light for you.

[Glock20C]

I do not think your advise is sound or the way the Law is !!! I have read that the letters show purchase date, code numbers, your E-Mail, your address and all PP information, I assume all came from the Wuf ......... Lol


I bet you they had to Slap the ***** out of Wuf just to shut him up when they got a hold of him....just a damn shame

[ezbass]

Anubis, That is my point, it is a civil case and DN must prove damages but how do they come up with the $3500, then $5000 dollar amounts. That is my question
With that in mind I am reflecting on Canadian laws in civil cases, I have read the whole thread and have found it very informative as we are all subject to persecution in these lawsuits, and no Im not a lawyer.
In closing, This site is always informative and helpful and I respect everyones opinion, keep up the good work in keeping us up to date and Happy New Year to everyone at Satfix
It's a civil matter. Go back to the first post then read the whole thread. It may shed some light for you.

[iq180]

Have you heard about intent.. The codes are considered the COKE in these cases, buying them is a criminal offense.. You dont need to use the coke just purchasing it, even if its just cut could lead you to jail..LOL
yes i have heard of intent, but if you did not put note on your PP asking for codes or if it had nothing to do with iks or it was a donation, they cant prove intent no matter what was sent to you if you did not ask for it, JMO.

[dishuser]

yes i have heard of intent, but if you did not put note on your PP asking for codes or if it had nothing to do with iks or it was a donation, they cant prove intent no matter what was sent to you if you did not ask for it, JMO.
I'm pretty sure those that said they got letters put down it was for a donation

[Glock20C]

I'm pretty sure those that said they got letters put down it was for a donation


so not everyone that delt with "Him" got a letter ...or is it a matter of time?

[iq180]

I'm pretty sure those that said they got letters put down it was for a donation
now you dont think they would come here and say they were that stupid do y a i would not,LOL, but if they did ask for codes in PP
note that could be why not every one that did deal with wuf got a letter, and it is a fact not everyone got a letter, time will tell all.lol

[fifties]

Anubis, That is my point, it is a civil case and DN must prove damages but how do they come up with the $3500, then $5000 dollar amounts. That is my question
They can sue for whatever amount they want to. They've apparently decided on certain round-number fixed amounts, depending on how much effort they have to go through. This is no different than what Dave did, 10+ years ago.


as we are all subject to persecution in these lawsuits
Speak for yourself, little brother.

Attending this forum in no way even suggests that those posting are stealing DN programming through IKS, or any other means, unless they say so themselves.

[budyyy]

Anyone in Canada get that letter? I'd imagine the effort of going after Canadian users would ''better'' be spend on American end users but I'm only speculating..

I sent wulfman money via paypal, haven't had an issue yet. I'm thinking next time ill spend the extra 5$ and get one of those prepaid credit cards instead.

[Gonzo21]

Hey i am gonzo i received a latter were they were asking for 3500 and i took it to an attorney and he told me to ignore it and now they sent me a second letter were now they are asking for 5000

[VATO LOCO]

Hey i am gonzo i received a latter were they were asking for 3500 and i took it to an attorney and he told me to ignore it and now they sent me a second letter were now they are asking for 5000

lol.. go back to that same lawyer and tell him if he will represent you for free if/when they do decide to take your to court. i bet he will change his tune so fast it will make his head spin. JMHO.

[Gonzo21]

Well he told me to go see him if i got served

[Gonzo21]

Has anybody gotten served with papers to go to court

[jazzman]

Has anybody gotten served with papers to go to court

Good question as I believe the time limit to reply to the letter has expired. If no one has been served yet, either they're taking thier time or it was simply an effective scare tactic. JMO.

[surfinisfun]

Good question as I believe the time limit to reply to the letter has expired. If no one has been served yet, either they're taking thier time or it was simply an effective scare tactic. JMO.

You mean that was what they had in mind all along?.lol

Well your right buddy, i'm sure they got there money's worth....people scared.

Oh, and a few bucks on the side, bonus.lol

[VATO LOCO]

Has anybody gotten served with papers to go to court

if they are going to server anyone they won't do it right away. it may take 1.5-2 years because they will consider all avenues before dropping the hammer down. on thee folks who didn't pay. now that doesn't mean they are going to sue everyone who didn't pay. but if i were a gambling man. i pretty sure they are going to take a few choosen ones. my question is do you wanna spin the ol'roultte wheel and try your luck?

[fifties]

if they are going to server anyone they won't do it right away. it may take 1.5-2 years because they will consider all avenues before dropping the hammer down.
That's ridiculous; what other "avenues" are there? Either they will have summons and complaints served on those to whom they sent letters to in a reasonable period of time, or they won't take it any further.

A reasonable period of time, I would guess, is about the space between them sending the first, and then the second letter.

[BPG]

Something to remember here is that Wuf gave them EVERYTHING .... Which means, they have his computer, passwords, PM'S , Everything ! He gave them So much that the old site was shut down for security.... A**hole that he turned out to be...

@Gonzo : I would listen to your lawyer.....

BPG~

[hondoharry]

That's ridiculous; what other "avenues" are there? Either they will have summons and complaints served on those to whom they sent letters to in a reasonable period of time, or they won't take it any further.

A reasonable period of time, I would guess, is about the space between them sending the first, and then the second letter.

If the do choose to take someone to court they just may go the extra mile and get your ISP logs which could take some time.

[dishuser]

If the do choose to take someone to court they just may go the extra mile and get your ISP logs which could take some time.

I doubt they'll do that
they already have enough info

[tbird686]

if they had your ips info......could they all so use any traces of downloaded content against you??? we don't have that here yet in canada........i know because i have gotten 3 emails from my ips people titled abuse......

[VATO LOCO]

That's ridiculous; what other "avenues" are there? Either they will have summons and complaints served on those to whom they sent letters to in a reasonable period of time, or they won't take it any further.

A reasonable period of time, I would guess, is about the space between them sending the first, and then the second letter.

not ridiuculous when i say other avenues i mean more letters will come before they server you. it doesn't happen right away it may take a few years for the letters to stop. trust me i know. have you ever gotten a letter? i'm willing to bet you haven't.

[fifties]

have you ever gotten a letter? i'm willing to bet you haven't.
Of course not.

I'm as pure as the driven snow...:innocent:

[surfinisfun]

Of course not.

I'm as pure as the driven snow...:innocent:

Driven on snow?.lol

[abouttosnap]

It was on another matter but a judgement never the less. I got served last year on a dept from 2008. Sheriff served the papers with a court date but I didn't show up. Time limit probably varies from state to state. I think it was around $2800.

[MarvinGardens]

The time limit (Statute of Limitations) for serving the summons and complaint is three years from the date when the infringement was discovered.

That means DN has up to three years to continue sending you letters.

During that time DN with select a few who they will bring to court just to prove to the others that they have a viable case against them. That may sway the others to finally settle.

If DN gets a default judgment against you because you defaulted by not showing up in court then that will prove that DN's evidence against you (and the others) was sufficient to win at trial.

That's because DN has to present and prove its evidence to the Judge to get a default judgment against you just as if you were present in court and at trial.

[fifties]

The time limit (Statute of Limitations) for serving the summons and complaint is three years from the date when the infringement was discovered.

That means DN has up to three years to continue sending you letters.

During that time DN with select a few who they will bring to court just to prove to the others that they have a viable case against them. That may sway the others to finally settle.
The publicity about this would not only prod other letter recipients to settle, but have a larger impact as well, in dissuading ppl from either renewing any IKS agreement, or starting it in the first place.


If DN gets a default judgment against you because you defaulted by not showing up in court then that will prove that DN's evidence against you (and the others) was sufficient to win at trial.

That's because DN has to present and prove its evidence to the Judge to get a default judgment against you just as if you were present in court and at trial.
Not exactly. I remember having to go to court to get a money judgment against an ex-tenant, who didn't bother to show up. The judge asked me what my complaint was (while reading it), and I got as far as, "well your honor" before he motioned his hand to end the monologue and gave me my decision (simply on the basis that the other party failed to appear).

A plaintiff can present what they consider to be evidence, which if contested might prove to be invalid, and if not of course can be taken at face value. That doesn't mean the same evidence could be used to win their next case, if contested. IOW, it's not set in stone.

[Gonzo21]

What is isp logs

[MarvinGardens]

Not exactly. I remember having to go to court to get a money judgment against an ex-tenant, who didn't bother to show up. The judge asked me what my complaint was (while reading it), and I got as far as, "well your honor" before he motioned his hand to end the monologue and gave me my decision (simply on the basis that the other party failed to appear).

The court was easily able to grant a judgment in your case simply on your pleadings. Yours was a simple case to decide based on your evidence that your ex-tenant had a tenancy agreement with you and your claim of money owed.

With these DMCA cases DN will have to prove to the court that they owned a copyright interest, there was an infringement, and that they can identify the infringer.

So when you look at all of the DA cases that DN has won a default judgment against an absent defendant you have to believe that DN has the process down.

[fifties]

when you look at all of the DA cases that DN has won a default judgment against an absent defendant
How many cases have they won? Or, how many have they taken to court? I don't have a Pacer account.

[dishuser]

How many cases have they won? Or, how many have they taken to court? I don't have a Pacer account.
I stopped counting at 15
there's likely more

[clarkie]

What would this be........ a Pacer account.

[badboyz4life]

I dont know much but until you are handed a summons with a court date there's no way you can have a judgement put against you.and the closer it comes to court date the more they will try to find you,if they dont find you and that court date passes they have to File against you again and start all over looking for you.
when that court date comes and the plaintiff says we mailed him a letter but couldnt find him to serve him ,that letter want mean s--t in court.
the kids in my dads neighbor hood steals his mail about 3days a week and thats the truth

[MarvinGardens]

In Federal court, the court clerk will not give you a court date until you show proof that the summons and complaint has been served on the defendant. The case cannot go forward until the defendant is served.

You can periodically renew the summons to keep it alive while you are trying to find and serve the defendant.

If the defendant is in "hiding" and you determine that you cannot personally serve them with the paperwork, there are court approved substitute methods to serve them to get the case rolling.

One such way of giving legal notice is by publication in a local newspaper for several weeks.

[hondoharry]

All these legal shenanigans seem so over the top over a $35 donation to an old guy with family problems.

[surfinisfun]

If the defendant is in "hiding" and you determine that you cannot personally serve them with the paperwork, there are court approved substitute methods to serve them to get the case rolling.

One such way of giving legal notice is by publication in a local newspaper for several weeks.

Maybe they can just tweet it out to the public, the way the courts side with the money these days that should be enough to convict the defendant.

[MarvinGardens]

All these legal shenanigans seem so over the top over a $35 donation to an old guy with family problems.

I cannot disagree with you on that observation.

[MarvinGardens]

Maybe they can just tweet it out to the public, the way the courts side with the money these days that should be enough to convict the defendant.

Better yet, broadcast it on DN's pirate channel.

[fifties]

I stopped counting at 15
there's likely more
Do we know how many -south of the border- were subscribers to DA's service?

[1boxman]

satscams does post the wins .

[fifties]

The percentage of subs to DA's service that have been approached by DN would be germane here.

[alex70olds]

The percentage of subs to DA's service that have been approached by DN would be germane here.

Dont know how many total subs Justin had, but here is a list of prosecuted cases in the US. I last updated in April.

DISH NETWORK L.L.C. et al v. WILLIAMS
DISH Network LLC et al v. Steele
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Blair
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Powell
NagraStar LLC et al v. Harrell
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Saunder
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Wineteer
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Dubar
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Hardison
Dish Network L.L.C., et al v. Lohnes
EchoStar Technologies L.L.C. et al v. Everette
EchoStar Technologies L.L.C. et al v. Robbins
DISH NETWORK L.L.C. et al v. ROUNDS
Dish Network LLC et al v. SWEETING
Dish Network, LLC et al v. Jeffrey Parsons
DISH Network LLC et al v. Daniel Arriola
DISH NETWORK L.L.C. et al v. THOMAS
DISH Network L.L C. et al v. Khan
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Harris
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Henry
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Layer
Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Fowler
DISH Network LLC et al v. Karapet Menemshyan
Dish Network LLC et al v. Ken Moorhead
Dish Network LLC et al v. Santa Monica Systems
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Arafat
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. James Terrazas
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Lopez
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Rhoades
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Frederick
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Pruneda
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Sanchez
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. John Mitchell
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Main
Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Vasquez
DISH NETWORK LLC et al v. PIPPIN
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Dames
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Goss
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Robbins
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Vega
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Rana
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Mondry
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Diallo
DISH Network LLC et al v. Alafa
Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Berger
Dish Network, LLC et al v. Tackie
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Friedman
Network LLC et al v. Scott
Dish Network LLC et al v. Smith
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Moran
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Suarez
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Ventura
Dish Network LLC v. DelVecchio
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Blair
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Lucas
Dish Network LLC et al v. Norris
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Hamilton
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Schaefer
Dish Network LLC et al v. Perez
Dish Network LLC et al v. Perry
Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Borden
Dish Network, L.L.C. et al v. Nguyen
DISH Network LLC et al v. Ashworth
Dish Network LLC et al v. Wiley
DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Martin
DISH NETWORK L.L.C. et al v. JONES
EchoStar Technologies LLC et al v. Kimbrough
DISH Network LLC et al v. Venning
Dish Network L.L.C. et al v. Dalmer

[fifties]

Thx Alex!

Are those all subs to the DA service, or everyone DN has gone after, regardless of from where?

[caterham]

The percentage of subs to DA's service that have been approached by DN would be germane here.

A quote from my favourite movie. " the god damned Germans ain't got nothing to do with it!"

[alex70olds]

Thx Alex!

Are those all subs to the DA service, or everyone DN has gone after, regardless of from where?

They were DA endusers, at least what D!sh claims. They are the ones that did not cave to the demand letters, and are only in the US.

[fifties]

A quote from my favourite movie. " the god damned Germans ain't got nothing to do with it!"
Yes, that always comes to my mind as well, when considering the use of that term, lol!


They were DA endusers, at least what D!sh claims. They are the ones that did not cave to the demand letters, and are only in the US.
Well, looks like about 70 parties or so, and you said you stopped counting last April, so we could presume more have followed.

Of course, taking over the server appears to have given them a slam-dunk AFA evidence needed, and IDing the scofflaws. I think in that situation, caving to the first letter might be the least costly choice.

[horhota]

I'm not sure if this is where to post this. First, I feel sorry for all those who are being sent letters and threatened. I also dealt with uno who and, although my donation was almost a year ago, I'm worried that he may have kept my info and it may have been leaked. The point of this post is to ask what we can do in the future to reduce the chances of this happening again. We seem to have a good system going with NFPS but the weak links are the sellers - with absolutely no disrespect to any of them - and Paypal. Why do the sellers need to keep any info at all once the donation is processed? I asked uno who to destroy my info but who knows if he did. How much info does any seller keep and how can we prevent them from keeping it? Second, it's seems obvious to me that Paypal is a real risk when you're doing anything remotely illegal. It's a great service, very convenient and cheap, but you need to give them info that allows anyone with a good lawyer to trace transactions back to your front door. I tried to set up an account with a gift card but apparently you can only do that in the US and I'm not sure if even that works. Up here in the great white north they demand you give them a bank account or credit card number. I've read that prepaid credit cards or Western Union are acceptable but I'm reluctant to buy a card, and pay the premium, only to find you can't use it. Again I feel for those who are going through legal troubles but I think that we, as a hobby or group, need to learn from this experience and use it to find ways to prevent it from happening again.

[JCO]

I'm not sure if this is where to post this. First, I feel sorry for all those who are being sent letters and threatened. I also dealt with uno who and, although my donation was almost a year ago, I'm worried that he may have kept my info and it may have been leaked. The point of this post is to ask what we can do in the future to reduce the chances of this happening again. We seem to have a good system going with NFPS but the weak links are the sellers - with absolutely no disrespect to any of them - and Paypal. Why do the sellers need to keep any info at all once the donation is processed? I asked uno who to destroy my info but who knows if he did. How much info does any seller keep and how can we prevent them from keeping it? Second, it's seems obvious to me that Paypal is a real risk when you're doing anything remotely illegal. It's a great service, very convenient and cheap, but you need to give them info that allows anyone with a good lawyer to trace transactions back to your front door. I tried to set up an account with a gift card but apparently you can only do that in the US and I'm not sure if even that works. Up here in the great white north they demand you give them a bank account or credit card number. I've read that prepaid credit cards or Western Union are acceptable but I'm reluctant to buy a card, and pay the premium, only to find you can't use it. Again I feel for those who are going through legal troubles but I think that we, as a hobby or group, need to learn from this experience and use it to find ways to prevent it from happening again.

There is an easy part of your questions to answer,, You never know what the reseler keeps as info.. If it was a PP payment then that is going to be on record at PP for a very long time.. You can buy prepaid CC up north, check with your suppliers if they do accept them. WU is anonymous for small amounts.

[fifties]

How much info does any seller keep and how can we prevent them from keeping it?
You can't prevent anyone from doing something that they are inclined toward. They can tell you that they haven't kept your information, but you have no way of seeing any proof.

I would imagine -and this is only my guess- that they would keep a record of each sale in case a problem arose and proof of how many subs, what date they were initiated, etc., needed to be referenced. I understand that the NFPS website has continual posts by ppl who claim that they paid for a "donation", and never received their codes. Records obviously have to be kept.


Second, it's seems obvious to me that Paypal is a real risk when you're doing anything remotely illegal.
There are always balances in life. PayPal is prolly the easiest payment method for internet purposes, but the counterweight is that it is very transparent when subject to a court order, for law enforcement or a civil action.

Western Union, in this case, would be the better choice regardless of what country one resides in.

Lastly, IKS is illegal. If it weren't, servers and their owners could be openly located both here in the U.S., and in the GWN. By engaging in the practice, a subscriber is exposing himself to potential legal action if he should get caught.

You are taking a chance; no two ways about it. The only way to be 100% safe is not to do it.

[whoknows]

fifties has it spot on.
And yu know that reseller has kept your information when you receive a reminder that your iks is about to expire and time for renewal and the address used was your person email or the email address you used with paypal.

[ftaalltheway]

Western Union, in this case, would be the better choice regardless of what country one resides in.

.

then again, wouldnt trust WU either or any third party payee for that matter
...they can all be comprimised and your info shared or hacked into

the only way to
make annonamous payments without giving out all your personal info is

email money transfers or those vanilla cards ....having said that,,, i was asked to
include my full name when purchasing from a reseller,,,be wise,,,,,
give out ONLY phony info, that reseller is asking BUT
(not sure why since they can enter any ole name and agree to any name used)
, you need to be smart abou it all, nowadays,,,i gave the dude a phony name and he/she was
nver the wiser...just dont ask if you can use a phony name, JUST DO IT!!!

curious but, always wonder why it is
resellers still to this day,, almost demand you pay with paypal,
what with the mess some are in, these days???
baffles the mind,,,food for thought

[Anubis]

then again, wouldnt trust WU either or any third party payee for that matter
...they can all be comprimised and your info shared or hacked into

the only way to
make annonamous payments without giving out all your personal info is

email money transfers or those vanilla cards ....having said that,,, i was asked to
include my full name when purchasing from a reseller,,,be wise,,,,,
give out ONLY phony info, that reseller is asking BUT
(not sure why since they can enter any ole name and agree to any name used)
, you need to be smart abou it all, nowadays,,,i gave the dude a phony name and he/she was
nver the wiser...just dont ask if you can use a phony name, JUST DO IT!!!

curious but, always wonder why it is
resellers still to this day,, almost demand you pay with paypal,
what with the mess some are in, these days???
baffles the mind,,,food for thought

If you have a reseller that you are uncomfortable with then do not deal with them. Simple as that.
This once again is reading comes into to play.

[byryky]

If you can find a seller that takes Greendot Moneypak (Not the one affiliated with a major credit card) they work great, no ID required for purchase, no name goes with or on the card, just spend it....

[dishuser]

then again, wouldnt trust WU either or any third party payee for that matter
...they can all be comprimised and your info shared or hacked into

the only way to
make annonamous payments without giving out all your personal info is

email money transfers or those vanilla cards ....having said that,,, i was asked to
include my full name when purchasing from a reseller,,,be wise,,,,,
give out ONLY phony info, that reseller is asking BUT
(not sure why since they can enter any ole name and agree to any name used)
, you need to be smart abou it all, nowadays,,,i gave the dude a phony name and he/she was
nver the wiser...just dont ask if you can use a phony name, JUST DO IT!!!

curious but, always wonder why it is
resellers still to this day,, almost demand you pay with paypal,
what with the mess some are in, these days???
baffles the mind,,,food for thought
don't need real info for WU so what's not to trust

[DrWhoFan]

Ya know ya gotta wonder where people's heads were at with all this P$ stuff....and some senior community members should share some of the blame, saying "Oh it's all a risk public, private no difference...." Hell no. Owning an IKS receiver is not the same as buying/donating for codes, and especially these server owner/operators giving no other option than paypal...dumb, dumb, dumb dumb.

[DrWhoFan]

don't need real info for WU so what's not to trust

As of Sept 2012 you do. Valid ID must be shown with all WU transactions. At least here in Canada.

[dishuser]

As of Sept 2012 you do. Valid ID must be shown with all WU transactions. At least here in Canada.

only on large amounts and that is in canada

[Glock20C]

As of Sept 2012 you do. Valid ID must be shown with all WU transactions. At least here in Canada.

if it's over a 1000.00 you need a I.D. to send WU...in the US
any amount under no I.D required

[fifties]

Ya know ya gotta wonder where people's heads were at with all this P$ stuff....and some senior community members should share some of the blame, saying "Oh it's all a risk public, private no difference...." Hell no. Owning an IKS receiver is not the same as buying/donating for codes, and especially these server owner/operators giving no other option than paypal...dumb, dumb, dumb dumb.
Exactly what "blame" should be shared, by exposing the fact that it is a risk to engage the services of an IKS server?

And what specifically is an "IKS receiver"?

[jeldf]

excellent point 'old man' no disrespect intended

[fifties]

excellent point 'old man' no disrespect intended
None taken, youngster, ;)

[DrWhoFan]

Exactly what "blame" should be shared, by exposing the fact that it is a risk to engage the services of an IKS server?

And what specifically is an "IKS receiver"?

Many moderators and senior community members at this site and others told members there was no difference in risk between simply owning a publically supported IKS capable FTA box and subscribing to a P$ using Paypal. And please don't argue semantics, you know perfectly well what I mean by IKS receiver.

[dishuser]

Many moderators and senior community members at this site and others told members there was no difference in risk between simply owning a publically supported IKS capable FTA box and subscribing to a P$ using Paypal. And please don't argue semantics, you know perfectly well what I mean by IKS receiver.got a link cause I don't recall ever seeing posts like that

[Nostradamus]

Many moderators and senior community members at this site and others told members there was no difference in risk between simply owning a publically supported IKS capable FTA box and subscribing to a P$ using Paypal. And please don't argue semantics, you know perfectly well what I mean by IKS receiver.

I wouldn't be discussing semantics when posting statements like that one. Now with publicly are you saying just owning one or actually connecting it to a public server because there is a big difference between those two options. If you have it connected to a public server you are in just as much kaa-kaa as if you had paid for a private share. You see Charlie doesn't care where you are getting the signal from for free but it really irritates him to know you are getting it free anyplace

[Anubis]

got a link cause I don't recall ever seeing posts like that
Hmmm I thiink we all missed those posts. :rolleyes:

[fifties]

Many moderators and senior community members at this site and others told members there was no difference in risk between simply owning a publically supported IKS capable FTA box and subscribing to a P$ using Paypal.
As mentioned in posts above, kindly provide a reference for this claim.

Almost any FTA satellite receiver can be used to receive IKS; that doesn't mean there is a risk in simply owning one, and I've never seen a post to the contrary, by anyone whose been here for more than a few posts worth.


And please don't argue semantics, you know perfectly well what I mean by IKS receiver.
I may know, but there are always newbs reading here that might not.

[DrWhoFan]

I don't want to cause any animosity by pointing fingers, rest assured the argument WAS made that there was no difference in risk between a private and public server. It absolutely was.

[JCO]

I don't want to cause any animosity by pointing fingers, rest assured the argument WAS made that there was no difference in risk between a private and public server. It absolutely was.

Good , now that that has been settled can we get back to the Nagra Love Letters... LOL

[kenkell1]

I don't want to cause any animosity by pointing fingers, rest assured the argument WAS made that there was no difference in risk between a private and public server. It absolutely was.

A private IKS server and a public IKS server are equally illegal regardless.....? If that is what you mean then yea...I'd say you are correct But originally .....it sounded like you were talking about the legality of owning a box and hooking up to a iks server which really are two different things.

[Night_Predator]

Many moderators and senior community members at this site and others told members there was no difference in risk between simply owning a publically supported IKS capable FTA box and subscribing to a P$ using Paypal. And please don't argue semantics, you know perfectly well what I mean by IKS receiver.


I don't want to cause any animosity by pointing fingers, rest assured the argument WAS made that there was no difference in risk between a private and public server. It absolutely was.


DrWhoFan either you misread or misunderstood what others have written. What I believe you’re referring to is that it has been said many times that buying and owning a FTA Receiver is not illegal but hooking it up to any IKS server, regardless if its free or not, is illegal. I have never, on this site or any other, read a thread, post or blog posted by a “moderator” or “Senior community member” or anyone else for that matter that stated that it was legal to connect an FTA receiver to a server that gives you access to copy right material. In fact I have read the opposite many, many times. Further anyone that thinks or writes otherwise is fooling them selves and would be chastised immediately by the moderators, senior community members and even members.

[ICEMAN]

Many moderators and senior community members at this site and others told members there was no difference in risk between simply owning a publically supported IKS capable FTA box and subscribing to a P$ using Paypal. And please don't argue semantics, you know perfectly well what I mean by IKS receiver.

Hmmm you have been with us 16 days and you already know all that?I've been with satfix 2.5 years and did'nt know what you statated above..now lets do what JCO suggested and get back to the court love
letters.this thread is getting way off topic.JMO:noidea:

[caretaker69]

more than a court letter now.rite THOMAS DIXION.

[VATO LOCO]

That's ridiculous; what other "avenues" are there? Either they will have summons and complaints served on those to whom they sent letters to in a reasonable period of time, or they won't take it any further.

A reasonable period of time, I would guess, is about the space between them sending the first, and then the second letter.

guess it doesn't seem too riduculous now huh... told you so>>>http://phoenix.satfix.net/showthread.php?127046-Letter-now-Court-case

[dishuser]

guess it doesn't seem too riduculous now huh... told you so>>>http://phoenix.satfix.net/showthread.php?127046-Letter-now-Court-case

told him what?
you said 1.5 to 2 years
now read what you quoted
need hookid on fonics?lol

[fifties]

Originally Posted by fifties
That's ridiculous; what other "avenues" are there? Either they will have summons and complaints served on those to whom they sent letters to in a reasonable period of time, or they won't take it any further.

A reasonable period of time, I would guess, is about the space between them sending the first, and then the second letter.
guess it doesn't seem too riduculous now huh... told you so>>>http://phoenix.satfix.net/showthread.php?127046-Letter-now-Court-case
I don't understand what your point is; "(Either) they will have summons and complaints served on those to whom they sent letters to in a reasonable period of time," seems to have been right on the money.

[boter]

what happen to your lawsuit? did you pay

[thegreengiant]

Just got my letter today in the mail. My buddy is a lawyer so going to talk to him later this week. But, I just wanted to know what people are doing. Are they paying up or waiting for the next letter to take it seriously.

[dishuser]

Just got my letter today in the mail. My buddy is a lawyer so going to talk to him later this week. But, I just wanted to know what people are doing. Are they paying up or waiting for the next letter to take it seriously.

considering several are now being tried in court you should take it seriously

[thegreengiant]

Thanks, for those who payed, did you pay the one time payment? Cause i dont have that kind of money

[cheff]

Just got my letter today in the mail. My buddy is a lawyer so going to talk to him later this week. But, I just wanted to know what people are doing. Are they paying up or waiting for the next letter to take it seriously.

So you just got your first letter? Wow this is new I thought most first letters were sent out months ago. They must have a grip of info to go through. If you bought codes from Wuf. you can kiss $3500 away.

[thegreengiant]

I thought that too. I thought i was one of the lucky one who didnt get a letter, it looks like they are going after every one.

[jazzman]

I thought that too. I thought i was one of the lucky one who didnt get a letter, it looks like they are going after every one.

I'm assuming this WAS a registered letter that you had to sign for?

[thegreengiant]

I'm assuming this WAS a registered letter that you had to sign for?
Yes my brother in law signed it for me, I was at work. there goes 3500. Man today was a terrible day, and this just make it the worst day i had in years. :(

[dishuser]

I'm assuming this WAS a registered letter that you had to sign for?

it doesn't need to be

[Jacksonj]

you should probably pay the $3500 if you can come up with it within the time period of the first certified letter. If you wait 30 days, they will more then likely send you a second letter (non certified) which will bump the price to $5000 and also have attached a copy of the complaint that they can file against you if you don't cooperate. The second letter is where most are folding even though it is not certified, especially now that we can see some of the complaints filed in various states.

There should be a number to the law firm in Houston that you can contact a lawyer there and discuss payment options if you cant come up with the entire $3500 at once. He is actually very nice and will not hassle you about the situation. He just wants your money and not have to put up with going to court. Hope this info helps.

[alex70olds]

you should probably pay the $3500 if you can come up with it within the time period of the first certified letter. If you wait 30 days, they will more then likely send you a second letter (non certified) which will bump the price to $5000 and also have attached a copy of the complaint that they can file against you if you don't cooperate. The second letter is where most are folding even though it is not certified, especially now that we can see some of the complaints filed in various states.

There should be a number to the law firm in Houston that you can contact a lawyer there and discuss payment options if you cant come up with the entire $3500 at once. He is actually very nice and will not hassle you about the situation. He just wants your money and not have to put up with going to court. Hope this info helps.

How do you know this? Which lawyer?

[Jacksonj]

Well i dont want to give out names because I may have been given a different lawyer then this person... there are quite a few at Hagan. I talked to two different ones at two different times. Neither were rude but made it clear they wanted money and a statement saying you wont steal their encrypted signals.

[dishuser]

How do you know this? Which lawyer?
dewey,screwem & howe

[alex70olds]

Well i dont want to give out names because I may have been given a different lawyer then this person... there are quite a few at Hagan. I talked to two different ones at two different times. Neither were rude but made it clear they wanted money and a statement saying you wont steal their encrypted signals.
Didn't think it was Chad himself. Did they tell you what evidence they had? Usually as part of the agreement, they wont let you post in forums like this.

[Jacksonj]

They mentioned nothing against posting in forums about the situation. I have obviously stayed pretty low because not to draw too much attention but i do want to help others in the same situation so they do not show up on the Justia dockets of court filings. The complaint they had attached to the second letter is pretty much identical to the ones you can see in the case filings (like in the other thread except it had my name on it). All the evidence they have comes pretty much in the fist letter (code, email, blah, blah) same stuff you see others posting about

[alex70olds]

They mentioned nothing against posting in forums about the situation. I have obviously stayed pretty low because not to draw too much attention but i do want to help others in the same situation so they do not show up on the Justia dockets of court filings. The complaint they had attached to the second letter is pretty much identical to the ones you can see in the case filings (like in the other thread except it had my name on it). All the evidence they have comes pretty much in the fist letter (code, email, blah, blah) same stuff you see others posting about
Thanks for the info. I do find your nic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,interesting lol.

[Jacksonj]

Yeah I'll be happy to give out as much info as I can to help others. I folded after the second letter and made the phone calls then. They did lower the amount to $3500 from $5000 and they actually gave me a few extra weeks to come up with the entire amount.

They never sent me a written release. In my written statement to them i said by accepting my money you release me from this complaint and does not admit guilt. That was just before Christmas, and I have not heard anything since.

[alex70olds]

Yeah I'll be happy to give out as much info as I can to help others. I folded after the second letter and made the phone calls then. They did lower the amount to $3500 from $5000 and they actually gave me a few extra weeks to come up with the entire amount.

They never sent me a written release. In my written statement to them i said by accepting my money you release me from this complaint and does not admit guilt. That was just before Christmas, and I have not heard anything since.
Yo do understand there will be those that suspect you are working for them? Just fore warning.

[Jacksonj]

Yeah i was thinking that too. But anybody else who has sent the money off to them and reads this will see that my info matches up with theirs. Bash me all they want but the point of having a forum is for people to help each other and that's all I'm trying to accomplish. You've been pretty good to me so far Alex, maybe others will follow you.

Its pretty clear the letters are still coming out and the people receiving them now are really going to be sweating after seeing some of the complaints actually being filed.

[dishuser]

Yo do understand there will be those that suspect you are working for them? Just fore warning.

ya how dare someone say dn will win...lol
don't tell sod they can win...he can get a public defender to beat the big guns...lol

[alex70olds]

ya how dare someone say dn will win...lol
don't tell sod they can win...he can get a public defender to beat the big guns...lol

Lol, you and I both know they dont file to lose. They or Fraud may threaten, but they have a purty good track record when they file.

[dishuser]

Lol, you and I both know they dont file to lose. They or Fraud may threaten, but they have a purty good track record when they file.
ya my guess it will be about 1,000 slam dunks when finished with wuf's clients
could be even worse depending what was stored on his pc

[alex70olds]

There must be a lot settling, or DN is not so confident for only 9 cases being filed so far.

[thegreengiant]

Yeah i was thinking that too. But anybody else who has sent the money off to them and reads this will see that my info matches up with theirs. Bash me all they want but the point of having a forum is for people to help each other and that's all I'm trying to accomplish. You've been pretty good to me so far Alex, maybe others will follow you.

Its pretty clear the letters are still coming out and the people receiving them now are really going to be sweating after seeing some of the complaints actually being filed.
Thanks for all the info, it will actually help many people like me who just got their letter and don't know what to do. The safe bet is to pay. The funny thing is that, i am so close to get a new job, pending the background check, I wounder if this suit will show. I can just imaged there looks when the see Dish Network LLC v. me

[alex70olds]

Thanks for all the info, it will actually help many people like me who just got their letter and don't know what to do. The safe bet is to pay. The funny thing is that, i am so close to get a new job, pending the background check, I wounder if this suit will show. I can just imaged there looks when the see Dish Network LLC v. me

Civil suits will not show on background check. At least it does not on the ones I run for my business.

[Jacksonj]

Yeah you have plenty of time to think things over get your financial situation together. I was in the same boat as you but about a month into a new job and that check to them cleaned me out (and some of my parents money as well). You may also consider talking with a lawyer on this matter but they are going to give you the same advice. Either pay up front and get it over with, or don't and run the gamble of them filing the complaint and spending even more money.

[alex70olds]

Yeah you have plenty of time to think things over get your financial situation together. I was in the same boat as you but about a month into a new job and that check to them cleaned me out (and some of my parents money as well). You may also consider talking with a lawyer on this matter but they are going to give you the same advice. Either pay up front and get it over with, or don't and run the gamble of them filing the complaint and spending even more money.
Should have asked for the installment plan.

[Jacksonj]

the installment plan would be a total of $5000 over the time frame of about 6 months. I voted to get it over with the $3500 up front.

[alex70olds]

the installment plan would be a total of $5000 over the time frame of about 6 months. I voted to get it over with the $3500 up front.

I assume you bought from Wuf. Am I correct?

[Jacksonj]

yes through pms on satfix.

[fifties]

ya my guess it will be about 1,000 slam dunks when finished with wuf's clients
could be even worse depending what was stored on his pc
So a cool minimum of three million, five hundred thousand ($3,500,000) into DN's coffers...Not a bad haul, and to boot, they'll prolly pick up a few extra accounts from ex-IKS'ers who can't do without their TV...

[alex70olds]

yes through pms on satfix.

Under which username? Just curious why register with a new nic? You already settled.

[ranger]

Sounds reasonable to me to just wipe out old memories and just start fresh .... Lol

[1boxman]

Under which username? Just curious why register with a new nic? You already settled.

Could all most think he works for someone ...

[1boxman]

yes through pms on satfix.

Being that they have no problem with you posting in forums ..any chance you can post the doc's ?

[fputs]

Civil suits will not show on background check. At least it does not on the ones I run for my business.

Many jobs that require security clearance such as defense positions do check for civil lawsuits, judgements and bankruptcies. In thegreengiant's case, if he settles with them prior to the suit filings then his record will be clean of this matter.

[Jacksonj]

Being that they have no problem with you posting in forums ..any chance you can post the doc's ?

My other nick was also before satfix did a clean sweep right after everything hit the fan and they were shutdown for a week or two.

I can post the docs i have but each one of them i have found identical versions of floating around on the fta forum sites. The only page i haven't seen is the cover letter to the second letter i received that had the complaint attached.... and the complaint can be found everywhere. That cover page pretty much changed the price to $5000 and put another 30 day window to respond.

[fputs]

My other nick was also before satfix did a clean sweep right after everything hit the fan and they were shutdown for a week or two.

I can post the docs i have but each one of them i have found identical versions of floating around on the fta forum sites. The only page i haven't seen is the cover letter to the second letter i received that had the complaint attached.... and the complaint can be found everywhere. That cover page pretty much changed the price to $5000 and put another 30 day window to respond.

I agree that the best financial feasibility and minimization of emotional grief would be to settle out of court. Unless one can actually prove that it wasn't you who made the donation or obtain a timed aerial photos showing that you do not have a dish on your home, your odds of winning are basically nill.

[bkr™]

obtain a timed aerial photos showing that you do not have a dish on your home,

Not sure how this means anything, all my rental properties have 2 dishes on them, 1 Dave and 1 Charlie, only because I do not want the installer monkeys to add more holes in the roofs. However some are being used and some not.

[thegreengiant]

Many jobs that require security clearance such as defense positions do check for civil lawsuits, judgements and bankruptcies. In thegreengiant's case, if he settles with them prior to the suit filings then his record will be clean of this matter.
Thanks for the info, anything to keep my record clean, as it is today that I have to explain why i was arrest in the Los Angeles May Day parade in 2002, youth, lol

[fifties]

I agree that the best financial feasibility and minimization of emotional grief would be to settle out of court. Unless one can actually prove that it wasn't you who made the donation or obtain a timed aerial photos showing that you do not have a dish on your home, your odds of winning are basically nill.
Even if Dik tried to use a photo of a satellite dish on your roof as "evidence", you could always simply say, "it was there when we moved in". Unless he has proof of ownership of a satellite receiver, he has nothing, hardware-wise.

Of course, he may not need that, with evidence that one subscribed to an IKS server service, although W/O ISP logs showing connection, he only has the one piece of his puzzle.
Unfortunately though, it would prolly take more $ for a lawyer to argue that, than the initial settlement amount.

[fputs]

Not sure how this means anything, all my rental properties have 2 dishes on them, 1 Dave and 1 Charlie, only because I do not want the installer monkeys to add more holes in the roofs. However some are being used and some not.

Suppose your residence of which your credit card, Paypal, etc are addressed to and is also the address to which you received the demand notice does not have a dish mounted. If you can show evidence through aerial photos that your residence does not have a dish, I would think that you can make a valid claim to the provider that "you can't sue me for signals to which I don't steal from".

[dishuser]

Suppose your residence of which your credit card, Paypal, etc are addressed to and is also the address to which you received the demand notice does not have a dish mounted. If you can show evidence through aerial photos that your residence does not have a dish, I would think that you can make a valid claim to the provider that "you can't sue me for signals to which I don't steal from".
what if it's a camouflaged dish?

[Nostradamus]

you guys are really just grasping at straws and if you get one of the letters the best option is just pay up? A lot of off the wall theories of what might work for a defense and what might not. Some may have even had some validity but did you ever stop to think that DN reads these threads as well and even if you hit on a novel approach to defend yourself that by posting it in here by the time you get to court that their lawyers will have all the ducks in a row and ready to blow you out of the water on whatever publicized defense you came up with.

My guess is they have a whole database of scenarios on a laptop they could take in a court room with them and basically these threads here created the database of how to attack any possible defense. If you got a letter and talked to a lawyer whatever advice he gave you do not post in public forums until after you have gone to court otherwise you just wasted your lawyer fees as well.

[bkr™]

That may be a very valid point, however just drive around your neighborhood and see how many dishes are visible, being in use or not. Dave and Charlie seldom have the installer monkeys remove dish...it is free advertizing for them.