Another Mod Reseller Bust?

[kyzursozay]

hey guys,new here but thinking?
with their port changes and no notice from them,they ask for an e-mail with proof of payment.
imo seems an admission of guilt if the wrong party is asking


So you are suggesting that Dik could be leaning on them, as he apparently did with wufman, to extract payment information from their "subscribers", who may have purchased codes using an indirect method, like WU, which was untraceable.

Very good; I like your devious mind. I think it's a bit far-fetched, but certainly not out of the ball park, given the turmoil over there.

If their "subscribers" who went to the trouble to use an indirect method like WU wouldn't they also use either fake/disposable email ...........

[Recove52]

what better way to moniter terrorist or IKS than to allow some sites to stay up as gathering points

[ftaalltheway]

what better way to moniter terrorist or IKS than to allow some sites to stay up as gathering points

yes but,,,knowledge is power,,,no matter what side one is on
glad to have a place to express thoughts for learning and
others to read

besides this place is not just about fta ;)

[solaris]

For all my canadian friends here, I've wondered about this so I did some reasearch. First I must say, I'm not a lawyer, but I do my best reading political information from around the world so here it...

[solaris]

BTW if you get caught watching BEV on fta, you're screwed in Canada. The punishment can be up to $25k and prison time.

[ruthie]

And if you got caught in the old card days and now how is it different? and splitting your cable tv is illegal as well ....just so peeps know....lol

[sodusme]

Excellent info Solaris....

Can you watch Bev in the states I wonder without repercussions? ;)

[surfinisfun]

BTW if you get caught watching BEV on fta, you're screwed in Canada. The punishment can be up to $25k and prison time.

Lol....don't post when your drunk.

Prison time.lmfao

[pugsycan]

Not very far into the states There footprint ends about at South Dakota and straight east and west of that
Excellent info Solaris....

Can you watch Bev in the states I wonder without repercussions? ;)

[surfinisfun]

Sod or alex are most likely better at info regarding so called theft of nagra signals but i do recall reading that the most Canucks can do in this area is a fine of $1000 per violation.

Actually it may have been posted here from GS2.

I'll check my logs.lol

[alex70olds]

Sod or alex are most likely better at info regarding so called theft of nagra signals but i do recall reading that the most Canucks can do in this area is a fine of $1000 per violation.

Actually it may have been posted here from GS2.

I'll check my logs.lol

If it is a question about Canadian law, GS2 is the one that knows. I think he took his case all the way to the Canadian Supreme court. You have to ask him, but I believe it was a gray area in the law that involved selling DTV subs up North. Sorry if I got that wrong GS2.

[Jdread]

Very, Very useful and enlightening information guys, I enjoy reading this sort of stuff.

[fifties]

Excellent info Solaris....

Can you watch Bev in the states I wonder without repercussions? ;)
No.

The DMCA forbids the interception of encrypted transmissions without permission, regardless of country of origin.

They had their ducks in a row when they wrote it, lol.

[solaris]

And if you got caught in the old card days and now how is it different? and splitting your cable tv is illegal as well ....just so peeps know....lol

From how I understand it, even during the old N2/Card days, it would still be illegal if you got caught watching BEV in Canada, whereas if you watched DN it wouldn't, though like I said that's just my understanding me nor anyone else wants to test it in court, that's the best I understand the law.

As for splitting cable TV by running a wire over your lawn to your next door neighbour I'm not sure any laws specifically prohibiting that just like if you authorize your neighbour to use your wifi, however you are responsible to adhere to the terms and conditions of you cable and internet provider, who most likely says not to do that specifically (I know mine does, I read the terms, though most don't I find it interesting lol). It is completely illegal for you to steal someone elses cable, whether you run a wire from the pole at the road or you "break into" your neighbor's house and run a wire to yours :P

It's also, legally speaking, allowed for you to in canada buy one sub and setup multiple receivers and have them at more than one location, but it violates the terms and conditions of most services, if you get caught you will simply just get clicked off. For this reason this is why the providers want you to plug in a phone line and if you don't they will from time to time call you for a Location ID to verify you have them for all receivers on your account. The idea is if there's a receiver not in the same house, you wont have the location ID and they'll click that receiver off. And don't think it's just as simple as writing it down, it changes every few minutes and they're unique to every receiver.

In the US though things are different and BEV doesn't go too far past the border like pugsycan said.

That said copyright issues are a totally different problem. No doubt about it you would find yourself in legal trouble if you legally bought a sub to a sat/cable provider and provided streams for it over the net, that would be copyright infringement.

[solaris]

Sod or alex are most likely better at info regarding so called theft of nagra signals but i do recall reading that the most Canucks can do in this area is a fine of $1000 per violation.

Actually it may have been posted here from GS2.

I'll check my logs.lol

If I'm right then it would be nothing, if I'm wrong then it wouldn't be $1000, but $25000, just read section 9.1 a. That said if you paid a settlement it would most likely be significantly less, just like the letters people got for $3k. So technically speaking, for sure if you're caught watching BEV in Canada the fines if you go to court is higher than in the US, where the DA users basically all got fines for $10k.

[1boxman]

The grey area law still stands...In Canada ..whether you pay for a sub or what ever ...from any from usa providers is illegal .. viss a verse .

[solaris]

The grey area law still stands...In Canada ..whether you pay for a sub or what ever ...from any from usa providers is illegal .. viss a verse .

The CRTC regulation outlaws american providers from having a license to broadcast in Canada and have canadians to purchase the service, to protect "canadian innovation" in the media. People do however, from what I read on other forums, subscribe to dish network by either having an address in the US or brought over a DN or DirectTV dish across the border. That's the grey area, and I think someone tried to take it to court and fight that grey area stating that preventing canadian's from watching media from other countries violates our right to freedom of expression, which personally I think it does, who knows what corporate government thinks, I'm not sure how that turned out :P. That grey area would technically apply to this too I guess plus the ambiguousness of the radiocommunications act.

[1boxman]

The grey area was all started in dtv day ..to prevent Canadian showing backed out games (broader mostly) and gave dtv a way to prosecute them .There for made any broadcast form either Country to be sold out side of there own .

Here you can read up ..and at bottom is a brief on grey market .

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/h_sf05562.html

[edrik]

No.

The DMCA forbids the interception of encrypted transmissions without permission, regardless of country of origin.

They had their ducks in a row when they wrote it, lol.

i have heard that, but i wonder, who would be prosecuting? and how would they even know to do so?
I have also heard that BEV has no jurisdiction in the states.
has that changed?

[solaris]

i have heard that, but i wonder, who would be prosecuting? and how would they even know to do so?
I have also heard that BEV has no jurisdiction in the states.
has that changed?

History shows that, typically, neither provider goes attacking others across the border, there isn't much of a reason and it makes it harder as they'd have to spend all the money to hire the appropriate lawyers that knows that jurisdiction, since laws in each country are different.

Don't feel you're safe though just because that may be the case, just because dn/bev hasn't shown too much ambition to attack others across the border doesn't mean they wont. If they find an opportunity to make money out of vulnerable people don't think for a moment they wont, like fifties said, they got their ducks in a row.

That's why it's unwise to make payments via paypal, read their terms on their site yourself. They said that if they see any suspicious activity they'll turn it over to the authorities. Wufman incident proves that, they know wufmans account and watched every single person who sent money to him, then after they accumulated up a large number of people they pounced on them.

life's not fair. Whoever said the rich get richer and the poor get poorer was very wise.

[1boxman]

i have heard that, but i wonder, who would be prosecuting? and how would they even know to do so?
I have also heard that BEV has no jurisdiction in the states.
has that changed?
DN and bev are jointed threw nagra anti-piracy group .

[Recove52]

yes but,,,knowledge is power,,,no matter what side one is on
glad to have a place to express thoughts for learning and
others to read

besides this place is not just about fta ;)Yes But Gotta love it! Of course Knowledge is a good thing and depending on how it,s used can make you or break you ,and having the knowledge and not using it can have others disscussing the lack of ones usage of same in the rumors section of a forum.LOL what this thread is about was someone who made bad choices when they knew the conciquences going in.. there decsion was there,s to make and they made it knowingly..bad part is there are alot of those who did,nt look b4 they leapt so to speak when it came to there involvement with the reseller and hopefully they will not be bedridden with the same illness..

[fifties]

From how I understand it, even during the old N2/Card days, it would still be illegal if you got caught watching BEV in Canada, whereas if you watched DN it wouldn't
In fact, a dozen or so years ago, Dave set up shop in Canada, and proceeded to sue Canadians in civil court for alleged damages. Now I don't remember if it was just against sellers of "pirate equipment", or if they also went after "end users" as well.


No doubt about it you would find yourself in legal trouble if you legally bought a sub to a sat/cable provider and provided streams for it over the net, that would be copyright infringement.
Actually when the seeders for the Sonysat IKS scheme were busted, the lawsuit by DN was for a violation of the TOS, specifically for sharing control words.




Originally Posted by fifties
No.

The DMCA forbids the interception of encrypted transmissions without permission, regardless of country of origin.

They had their ducks in a row when they wrote it, lol.
i have heard that, but i wonder, who would be prosecuting? and how would they even know to do so?
I have also heard that BEV has no jurisdiction in the states.
has that changed?
Violations of federal code, such as the DMCA, would be prosecuted in federal criminal court, from evidence supplied to the U.S. Attorney by DN or Nagra Star. That was the venue used to sue the Viewsat Three insofar as jail time was concerned.

BEV wouldn't need jurisdiction in the states in order to stop the pilfering of their signal, because viewing their content violates U.S. law via the DMCA, and they could simply present their evidence to the proper U.S. federal authority.
I don't believe that BEV could prosecute a civil suit against an American citizen here, however, in that as a foreign company they would have no standing in court.

OTOH, Nagra would have standing -by virtue of their affiliation with DN- but so far we haven't seen anything like this play out, and given the limited footprint of the Nimiq's, prolly won't.

[sodusme]

Not very far into the states There footprint ends about at South Dakota and straight east and west of that

Well I know for a time you could pick it up on the Northern Indiana/Southern Michigan border with a Terk 3 LNB dish. ;) Notice I'm not saying I personally ever engaged in such activity but I know it was possible. :yes:


No.

The DMCA forbids the interception of encrypted transmissions without permission, regardless of country of origin.

They had their ducks in a row when they wrote it, lol.

Figures....damn politicians and their laws. LOL

[Dells]

In fact, a dozen or so years ago, Dave set up shop in Canada, and proceeded to sue Canadians in civil court for alleged damages. Now I don't remember if it was just against sellers of "pirate equipment", or if they also went after "end users" as well.


Actually when the seeders for the Sonysat IKS scheme were busted, the lawsuit by DN was for a violation of the TOS, specifically for sharing control words.



Violations of federal code, such as the DMCA, would be prosecuted in federal criminal court, from evidence supplied to the U.S. Attorney by DN or Nagra Star. That was the venue used to sue the Viewsat Three insofar as jail time was concerned.

BEV wouldn't need jurisdiction in the states in order to stop the pilfering of their signal, because viewing their content violates U.S. law via the DMCA, and they could simply present their evidence to the proper U.S. federal authority.
I don't believe that BEV could prosecute a civil suit against an American citizen here, however, in that as a foreign company they would have no standing in court.

OTOH, Nagra would have standing -by virtue of their affiliation with DN- but so far we haven't seen anything like this play out, and given the limited footprint of the Nimiq's, prolly won't.


This would be correct as "NAGRA" took out an IKS for sky in Germany. If you look around you will find it. Nagra is worldwide, and that encryption is theirs. And they do business in Canada, The US, Europe....and other countries. If you look at the letters posted....the check gets cut to who? Nagra.......the Apology letter and admission of guilt saying you won't do it again, goes where? DN

[solaris]

In fact, a dozen or so years ago, Dave set up shop in Canada, and proceeded to sue Canadians in civil court for alleged damages. Now I don't remember if it was just against sellers of "pirate equipment", or if they also went after "end users" as well.


Actually when the seeders for the Sonysat IKS scheme were busted, the lawsuit by DN was for a violation of the TOS, specifically for sharing control words.



Violations of federal code, such as the DMCA, would be prosecuted in federal criminal court, from evidence supplied to the U.S. Attorney by DN or Nagra Star. That was the venue used to sue the Viewsat Three insofar as jail time was concerned.

BEV wouldn't need jurisdiction in the states in order to stop the pilfering of their signal, because viewing their content violates U.S. law via the DMCA, and they could simply present their evidence to the proper U.S. federal authority.
I don't believe that BEV could prosecute a civil suit against an American citizen here, however, in that as a foreign company they would have no standing in court.

OTOH, Nagra would have standing -by virtue of their affiliation with DN- but so far we haven't seen anything like this play out, and given the limited footprint of the Nimiq's, prolly won't.

I stand corrected, but in regard to the stream thing I talked about, I wasn't referring to streaming control words, i was referring to streaming an actual TV channel over the net. Whether you subed to it or not, or got it from OTA, it would be copyright infringement to stream the actual channel online under the DMCA in the US or Copyright act in canada.

[sodusme]

Not very far into the states There footprint ends about at South Dakota and straight east and west of that


This would be correct as "NAGRA" took out an IKS for sky in Germany. If you look around you will find it. Nagra is worldwide, and that encryption is theirs. And they do business in Canada, The US, Europe....and other countries. If you look at the letters posted....the check gets cut to who? Nagra.......the Apology letter and admission of guilt saying you won't do it again, goes where? DN

That is very true Nagra is worldwide.

It probably doesn't help our friends to the North that DN and Bev used to be a 'partnership' way back when. You can look it up if you do a search on the history of Bev it will say the equipment was owned/provided by Echostar. They even were going to call it Dish Network Canada at one time. I'm sure there is still a working relationship there.

[dishuser]

That is very true Nagra is worldwide.

It probably doesn't help our friends to the North that DN and Bev used to be a 'partnership' way back when. You can look it up if you do a search on the history of Bev it will say the equipment was owned/provided by Echostar. They even were going to call it Dish Network Canada at one time. I'm sure there is still a working relationship there.
they did call it dish network canada...I still have the rom3 cards that say it...lol

[Nostradamus]

hard to say for sure since nag3 and IKS took over whether they are still bed partners or not but I would say probably so as well. back in the day of Nag 2 it seemed whenever they were planning on something big it would hit the BEV side first as it seemed like they used it for prototype testing and if all went well there then DN followed suit shortly thereafter

[Recove52]

common denominater=Nagra 3 is a form of encryption made by the Kudelski Group. This company is sub contracted by Dish network and Bell Express view for their smart cards

[bp123]

We've been chatting/reading about this for about two weeks now, and I'm not saying it's NOT gonna happen, or happening already, but wouldn't we have started seeing info relating to it?

[Anubis]

We've been chatting/reading about this for about two weeks now, and I'm not saying it's NOT gonna happen, or happening already, but wouldn't we have started seeing info relating to it?
Not necessarily. It would seem in this game that speculation comes first then out of the blue something transpires or it doesn't and there is no set time.

[korben dallas]

I have said this before, one thing's for sure, both providers have lawyers that get paid to sit and try to find ways around current laws or are trying to get new ones made to fit their need and, sometime, as they have in the past, they get what they want. I have seen this happen in canada and the U.S.! They have enough money to make any politician think they(the providers) are righteous in their quest enough to become sympathetic to their "cause". If they were to get just one out of one hundred tries to get the end user then that is all they need because, once they are successful,they will sink all available resources to bolster and then solidify any newly approved method with which to prosecute the end user . Believe me, they have teams of lawyers and, this is my belief only, they will be successful because they just have more money than we do!!!

[sodusme]

I have said this before, one thing's for sure, both providers have lawyers that get paid to sit and try to find ways around current laws or are trying to get new ones made to fit their need and, sometime, as they have in the past, they get what they want. I have seen this happen in canada and the U.S.! They have enough money to make any politician think they(the providers) are righteous in their quest enough to become sympathetic to their "cause". If they were to get just one out of one hundred tries to get the end user then that is all they need because, once they are successful,they will sink all available resources to bolster and then solidify any newly approved method with which to prosecute the end user . Believe me, they have teams of lawyers and, this is my belief only, they will be successful because they just have more money than we do!!!

Unfortunately what you say rings true. It shouldn't work that way but it does. There is no 'justice' anymore in the U.S. it boils down to who has the best lawyer as in who can lie the best and make the jury/judge believe them.

[Dells]

Mabey this will shed a little light on what they can and will do North of the border. More than just selling here, but still........this is DN in Canada.

C&P
n November 2012, Nagra, together with Nagravision S.A., DN, Echo and Echotech, commenced a legal action against Dean Love of Winnipeg, Manitoba. Love was active on piracy forum web sites under the moniker “wEeDeR”. An injunction was obtained and a civil search order was executed against Love and his premises. The execution of the order resulted in the seizure of technology and substantial evidence and information concerning the unlawful activities of Love and others. The action was another victory in NagraStar‘s continuing efforts to prevent satellite television piracy throughout North America.

[fifties]

Unfortunately what you say rings true. It shouldn't work that way but it does. There is no 'justice' anymore in the U.S. it boils down to who has the best lawyer as in who can lie the best and make the jury/judge believe them.
It's the old, "golden rule"; he who has the gold, makes the rules!

[korben dallas]

This is round two for this here wEeDeR fella ain't it? It was the year 2000 or 2002 when he last graced her majesty with his presence in her courts, was it not?? Poor sucker, I hope he fairs well!! Peace!!!

[johnnylarue]

His store, Northsat, was the first major brick & mortar shop to be Anton Piller'd in Canada. He was selling DTV systems, so expressvu, who had just got off the ground, went after him along with DTV/NDS. If I remember, he was also selling drugs out of his store, and he was also nailed for that. It was a one-stop shop! This was a soap opera topic on pirate's den back in the day, with all the major Canadian dealers chiming in.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

For all my canadian friends here, I've wondered about this so I did some reasearch. First I must say, I'm not a lawyer, but I do my best reading political information from around the world so here it goes.

In Canada, unless there are other laws I'm not aware of, the law that prohibits watching subscription based satellite TV would be the radiocommunications act you speak of. So, I went to read it and here's what I found. If you want you read it for yourself here's the link:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C-46.pdf

Section 9, subsection 1, c states:


Luckily, you Canadian's have an exception clause in Section 10, subsection 2.3, which states:


I believe this is why Canadian's haven't been targeted by Dish Network. It means if the distributor (Dish Network) has the legal right (a broadcasting license) to make the signal available to the person in the area where the signal was decoded as a subscription but had not made the signal available (in other words they didn't market the signal there), then you will not be guilty of an offence. Canada and the US has deals with broadcasting over each others borders because it's inevitable, so Dish Network is licensed. However since they don't sell in Canada, you're good to go and watch Dish Network if you have the technology to do so.


DN does not have the legal right nor do they have a license to broadcast in Canada.



However lets say for a moment that they take the argument a different way, that, Dish Network had the lawful right to beam the signal, but didn't have the right to make a subscription available (which they don't, in order to become a broadcaster in canada you have to get not only a license for the spectrum but a license for the programming and promise you'll provide Canadian programming. If you want proof, check out the CRTC license for Sirius XM satellite radio which they had to promise to provide 1 canadian channel for every 5 american to sell in Canada). Then that would mean that, if that's what they'd want to define this law as, then Dish Network wouldn't even be considered a lawful broadcaster in Canada, in which case it wouldn't be considered as a subscription based service.

I believe for these reasons that Dish Network has never targeted any Canadian's with the letters with Wufman, or perhaps this guy too if he was busted. However that doesn't mean Canadian's are out of the water, nor vgiddy. If he was selling codes and paypal handed over the info, that doesn't mean any American's he sold to wont get a letter. Unfortunately they probably will. And Vgiddy will still get in trouble for something like Racketeering and for not claiming the income he made off the "donations" he sold with Canada's equivalent to the US's IRS.

That said I'm not a lawyer or professional by any means, that's just my observations. That said I don't think this has ever been fought in court before (another reason why I *think* I'm right) but the only way to find out is to fight this in a federal court to decide the fate.

I back this up with if you go to satscums... i mean satscams, and look through the posts, the only Canadian's targeted were the ones who were involved with decoding BEV or had equipment being sold to be compatible with BEV. Never for DN.



Section 10 2.3 refers to someone in Canada where the lawful provider like Bev had the lawful right to provide the signal to you where you live, collect a fee, and didn't.


It does not apply to DN because they are not a lawful provider.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

BTW if you get caught watching BEV on fta, you're screwed in Canada. The punishment can be up to $25k and prison time.


Not even a dealer in Canada has ever received a prison time except where they were found guilty of being in contempt of court. The fines handed out in Canada are not high and an end user would not be looking at the same amount as an end user in the US.




GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Sod or alex are most likely better at info regarding so called theft of nagra signals but i do recall reading that the most Canucks can do in this area is a fine of $1000 per violation.

Actually it may have been posted here from GS2.

I'll check my logs.lol


There is this clause under Civil action




(a) a monetary judgment may not exceed one thousand dollars where the person is an individual and the conduct engaged in by the person is neither contrary to paragraph 9(1)(e) or 10(1)(b) nor engaged in for commercial gain;


Now typically you would have engaged in conduct contrary to section 10(1)(b) but than it typically would not be for commercial gain. On the debate side is one side saying you don't qualify unless you did not engaged in conduct contary to 10(1)(b) and that you did not do it for commercial gain. The other side of the debate says you qualify if you don't do one of the above. We really won't know until there ever comes up in court.


Assuming the allegation is one violation don't think an end user would be looking at too much.




GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

The grey area law still stands...In Canada ..whether you pay for a sub or what ever ...from any from usa providers is illegal .. viss a verse .


Your right it is all illegal so really there is not a grey area anymore. The penalty for grey versus black in Canada is the same. The only possible grey are that remains could the law be a violation of your charter rights and this would apply only possibly to grey market.




GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

The CRTC regulation outlaws american providers from having a license to broadcast in Canada and have canadians to purchase the service, to protect "canadian innovation" in the media. People do however, from what I read on other forums, subscribe to dish network by either having an address in the US or brought over a DN or DirectTV dish across the border. That's the grey area, and I think someone tried to take it to court and fight that grey area stating that preventing canadian's from watching media from other countries violates our right to freedom of expression, which personally I think it does, who knows what corporate government thinks, I'm not sure how that turned out :P. That grey area would technically apply to this too I guess plus the ambiguousness of the radiocommunications act.


So far at first there was success but lower courts over turned the decision so right now it does not violate the charter. There was another case that was seeking funding to fight on it. The lower court agreed to the funding but it was than over turned so think that case died. There never has been a ruling by the Supreme Court and its quite unlikely a case will make it there unless some lawyer fights it himself. Bev, Star Choice. and the Government interviened. Someone in the common debates on bill C-2 on the Radio Communication Act to amend it that never happened estimated about a 6 to seven million dollar cost and up to 20 million on appeals.





Mr. Alan Riddell: The Supreme Court of Canada, in Bell ExpressVu Limited Partnership v. Rex, invited litigants to bring a charter challenge. They indicated that it was not possible to pronounce on the important issue of whether paragraph 9(1)(c) of the Radiocommunication Act was or was not unconstitutional. Mr. Justice Iacobucci said it was necessary for them to have an evidentiary record before them that is complete in order for them to decide this very important issue of whether or not black marketing and grey marketing is constitutionally protected under the charter.

Some of the protagonists went back and started litigating at first instance on an evidentiary record, as they'd been invited to do by the Supreme Court in Mr. Iacobucci's decision. Bell ExpressVu intervened and turned the entire case into a gargantuan exercise, where tens of thousands of pages of material were filed by Bell ExpressVu as intervener. The case dragged on and on, and Incredible Electronics, one of the companies that had accepted the Supreme Court of Canada's invitation to litigate the charter issue, ran out of money and was forced to abandon the litigation. This was after eight months of litigation, and they hadn't even completed the deposition stage of the case. The cost that had been racked up by Bell ExpressVu was in the neighbourhood of $1.2 million on the eve of Incredible Electronics' dropping out of the case for lack of funds.

So the case became so incredibly expensive that no one except Bell ExpressVu and the federal government, which was involved and racked up, apparently, $500,000 in legal costs at the taxpayers' expense, could afford to enter the fray. Therefore, the case was basically abandoned, and we're now at an impasse, where everyone else in the industry is looking at this situation and saying, oh, my God, if I try to raise this charter issue, if I try to invoke my charter rights, as the Supreme Court of Canada has invited me to do, at first instance, I'm going to have Bell ExpressVu and Star Choice and the Department of Justice litigating against me, and if I don't have a war chest of at least $5 million or $6 million to fight them at first instance, I'm just not going to be able to get to the final decision.

That is why we are proposing that there be a reference directly to the Supreme Court of Canada on this issue. It's the only way, in fact, that justice can be done and that the important constitutional question, which the Supreme Court of Canada itself expressly invited the people of Canada to bring to have decided, can be decided. In effect, we have these monopolistic companies on one side, Bell ExpressVu, Star Choice, that have a tremendous amount of money to litigate and a tremendous amount of money at stake, and are demonstrably willing, as they did in the Incredible Electronics case, to spend millions of dollars in legal fees. On the other side, there simply aren't the financial resources. We're dealing with very small players who are not necessarily very well organized individuals and cannot possibly raise the legal resources to fund a charter challenge fighting these companies, even at first instance.

 (1245)

As a lawyer, I would remind you that the $5 million or $6 million you're going to spend at first instance fighting Bell ExpressVu and Star Choice is just the first stage. It's guaranteed that whoever wins at first instance, after the first $5 million or $6 million have been spent, is going to have that decision appealed to the next level, which is the Ontario Court of Appeal or whatever provincial court of appeal is seized of this. Whoever loses that will then appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada. It's a seven-year process, and probably, by the time all is said and done, it's going to cost each litigant $15 million or $20 million, given the rate at which the litigants were spending in the Incredible Electronics case.

So that's the reason.




GS2

[havasu]

His store, Northsat, was the first major brick & mortar shop to be Anton Piller'd in Canada. He was selling DTV systems, so expressvu, who had just got off the ground, went after him along with DTV/NDS. If I remember, he was also selling drugs out of his store, and he was also nailed for that. It was a one-stop shop! This was a soap opera topic on pirate's den back in the day, with all the major Canadian dealers chiming in.

He was the 1st one into the HU card. So anyone who wanted a valid bin had to send him 4 cards to get back 1 bin.

[havasu]

His store, Northsat, was the first major brick & mortar shop to be Anton Piller'd in Canada. He was selling DTV systems, so expressvu, who had just got off the ground, went after him along with DTV/NDS. If I remember, he was also selling drugs out of his store, and he was also nailed for that. It was a one-stop shop! This was a soap opera topic on pirate's den back in the day, with all the major Canadian dealers chiming in.

Dean was the first one publically into the hu. For people who needed a non 745 bin he had you send 4 cards in to get 1 valid bin back. Claimed that the process wasn't perfected yet.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

This is round two for this here wEeDeR fella ain't it? It was the year 2000 or 2002 when he last graced her majesty with his presence in her courts, was it not?? Poor sucker, I hope he fairs well!! Peace!!!


Hes been in court many times. He is well known from many years ago as an old timer but people would not identify him unless they were around back than. He has a good legal mind.


Thee question is what evidence did they get to get the Anton Pillar Order and how did they find out what he was up to.




GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

His store, Northsat, was the first major brick & mortar shop to be Anton Piller'd in Canada. He was selling DTV systems, so expressvu, who had just got off the ground, went after him along with DTV/NDS. If I remember, he was also selling drugs out of his store, and he was also nailed for that. It was a one-stop shop! This was a soap opera topic on pirate's den back in the day, with all the major Canadian dealers chiming in.


Everyone has gone after him - DTV, NDS, Nag, Bev. He was busted for Maryjane. He has won and lost in court before.



GS2

[1boxman]

Your right it is all illegal so really there is not a grey area anymore. The penalty for grey versus black in Canada is the same. The only possible grey are that remains could the law be a violation of your charter rights and this would apply only possibly to grey market.




GS2

Grey still does exists ..Lets suppose you have a shared sub...which is really not allowed (but they know that there is and we know they know ,but they make like we do not know and they make like they do not know ..lol )(as they still get paid ) So you share a sub...and the shared sub is out of country . This would make it illegal and fall under grey area and not to mention a few other laws am sure .But that is another story ..lol

[grill master d]

So true.....

[korben dallas]

Though this may be true....."Assuming the allegation is one violation don't think an end user would be looking at too much".......any violation afterward, or, better to say, anyone getting "caught" again and again the penalty would increase "summarily, because, believe you me, they would be watched intensively!!

[mechanicman]

diknet cant really watch you.. i mean all they can do is follow a paper trail of buying codes, maybe receivers..if you dont create any type of paper trail they have nothing...unless you invite them in to watch the fight on PPV maybe..
Though this may be true....."Assuming the allegation is one violation don't think an end user would be looking at too much".......any violation afterward, or, better to say, anyone getting "caught" again and again the penalty would increase "summarily, because, believe you me, they would be watched intensively!!

[les44]

getsick and find out mr harper

[korben dallas]

diknet cant really watch you.. i mean all they can do is follow a paper trail of buying codes, maybe receivers..if you dont create any type of paper trail they have nothing...unless you invite them in to watch the fight on PPV maybe..
You wish! You don't have to believe me when I say that what they(the providers) are striving for is any indication of guilt ie: "Why do you need the info coming to your connection from this server for any reason other than for piracy"? It is my belief that in the end, though it may be years away(3 or 4 at most, maybe 5), they will be able to get a conviction on that merit alone. All we can do is wait and see, but when that day comes the penalties will be much more severe!!

[kcorscadden]

You wish! You don't have to believe me when I say that what they(the providers) are striving for is any indication of guilt ie: "Why do you need the info coming to your connection from this server for any reason other than for piracy"? It is my belief that in the end, though it may be years away(3 or 4 at most, maybe 5), they will be able to get a conviction on that merit alone. All we can do is wait and see, but when that day comes the penalties will be much more severe!!

If ppl are concerned about being traced, then there is 2 simple options. The first one is obvious, get out of the game as it is not for you. The second option is really simple and doesn't cost a lot of money, get a paid VPN. I have no affiliation with these guys, but Unblockus is around $5 a month and they don't keep any logs and nobody has any idea what you are doing with your connection. If DN or BEV were to acquire a P$ and did get IP addresses, they would get a blank IP address on your end, thus you are protected.

I have been doing this method for a good yr now and I have ran tests, and I haven't figured out a way to trace it back to me or anyone. Simply set up the VPN through your router (depending on the router) and away you go.

Ppl need to start getting smarter about their security as eventually DN/BEV are gonna switch up their strategy and come looking for us the end user.

[sodusme]

If ppl are concerned about being traced, then there is 2 simple options. The first one is obvious, get out of the game as it is not for you. The second option is really simple and doesn't cost a lot of money, get a paid VPN. I have no affiliation with these guys, but Unblockus is around $5 a month and they don't keep any logs and nobody has any idea what you are doing with your connection. If DN or BEV were to acquire a P$ and did get IP addresses, they would get a blank IP address on your end, thus you are protected.

I have been doing this method for a good yr now and I have ran tests, and I haven't figured out a way to trace it back to me or anyone. Simply set up the VPN through your router (depending on the router) and away you go.

Ppl need to start getting smarter about their security as eventually DN/BEV are gonna switch up their strategy and come looking for us the end user.

Um I hate to be the bearer of bad news but did you read their FAQ's? I had not heard of this VPN so I thought I'd check them out:


The logs that are generated by our system is only for the times when you IP address changes, other than that, no other logs are used.

When you download anything on your computer, your actual IP address is shown. The reason for that is our service works only for streaming of videos from the sites we support.

This is the complete list of sites we currently support: hxxp://support.unblock-us.com/customer/portal/articles/291570-supported-and-unsupported-sites

Any other site you access, even with our service active, you true identity will be shown.

If there is anything else you need, please let us know.

I'd get another VPN bro' as that is NOT safe. They support streaming of video content only and only on sites they support....which I can all but assure you an IKS site will not be one of 'em.

Not to mention they operate on a .COM TLD which means technically DN/Nagra can play hardball with them and force them to turn over logs as that .COM TLD has to comply with U.S. jurisdiction.

[BanHammer]

Unblock-Us is not a VPN provider. It's just a DNS service, nothing more than that.

[korben dallas]

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are one of the main contributors to the CIA's bag of tricks when speaking of surveillance equipment and technology. The RCMP have developed a way to watch what you are doing on your computer simply by parking nearby and monitoring every keystroke, and they don't have to be connected to anything!! They don't have to hack your account and they don't need to have a warrant, they don't even need permission from the internet provider either, because what they do is monitor and collect information from the electrical radiation your computer emits.... and I knew of this 7 or 8 years ago so imagine what they can do now!! They also develop surveillance technology for Scotland Yard, British intelligence, The Mossad, US Secret Service, and some others I just can't think of at the moment, remember, this was years ago when this info came to light!!! Peace!!!!

[Styx_N_Stones]

LOL....

Get the foil hats out folks...!!!

[Anubis]

LOL....

Get the foil hats out folks...!!!
You forgot to mention and watch for 2 cops sittings in front of your house looking down at their crotches.:tehe:

[korben dallas]

Hey, you guys can scoff all you want, no skin off my hiney, and it's easy to find out if you know how to navigate google!! I was involved with police services from my late teens to my early fifties and today I am 62 years old. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!! Peace!!!!

[Styx_N_Stones]

Thats like in Great Britan if you want to watch 'free tv' you have to pay for a yearly license from the government for each tv in your house (this part is true). The powers that be have always maintained that they could send 'the van' to monitor any local oscillators in the house and determain what your watching. Having been a HAM radio operator for almost 40 years this subject comes up all the time... its just pure BS!

[Anubis]

Hey, you guys can scoff all you want, no skin off my hiney, and it's easy to find out if you know how to navigate google!! I was involved with police services from my late teens to my early fifties and today I am 62 years old. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!! Peace!!!!
Not scoffing at anything. I just like to have fun with threads like these.

[DualTest]

I always find it funny that people find this "hobby" so important that these police agencies would go to all that trouble. The only people wanting to prosecute this is the providers and their lawyers.

[korben dallas]

Thats like in Great Britan if you want to watch 'free tv' you have to pay for a yearly license from the government for each tv in your house (this part is true). The powers that be have always maintained that they could send 'the van' to monitor any local oscillators in the house and determain what your watching. Having been a HAM radio operator for almost 40 years this subject comes up all the time... its just pure BS! I have never seen any evidence of any Providers claiming what you say and I also don't believe anyone can sit outside your home and determine what you are watching , unless they have a "direct line of sight" to the television, but to have someone believe that "any" information transmitted over the internet is secure is just "wishful thinking". Now maybe the providers can't get at this info but rest assured there are those that can, and do, look at and collect any info they want from the net. Also, referring back to post #307, the RCMP also provide said technology to Interpol!! In fact, most any "spy" technology in the world worth it's salt was and still is being developed by the RCMP Labs!! These buggers are SMART, lol!! Peace!!!! P.S. The RCMP are involved in gathering and distributing intelligence to their allies across the globe, and I didn't say these guys spy on satellite pirates, lmfao!! They only look for true security threats!!

[Styx_N_Stones]

Heres a wikipedia article about licensing TVs in GB...

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

Heres the part I find intersting...
Had to clear was packed full of live links Pugsy

So we make a certain perentage of folks believe that its possible and they will comply without knowing the truth... kinda!

[sodusme]

The only 'signal testing' that I have heard that can and does work is for cable. I have a buddy that works for Comcast and he tells me that if you 'steal' cable more then likely you won't get the fitting back on tightly enough as they use a special tool for it and it leaks signal after you have tampered with the filter. That is the only 'signal testing' that I'm aware of that can catch a television pirate.

The van's outside the house, the "they can tell what channel your watching" from outside the house and all the other satellite stuff is just myth.

[dhuckabay]

We have TV license in South Africa also. My understanding on the curbside vans was that a tuner would emit an even multiple harmonic of whatever frequency it was tuned to, the monitors would look for this. This was in the days of analog. I seriously doubt that digital tuners of today do this.

[fifties]

today I am 62 years old. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!! Peace!!!!
Happy B'Day (youngster)!


the RCMP also provide said technology to Interpol!! In fact, most any "spy" technology in the world worth it's salt was and still is being developed by the RCMP Labs!! These buggers are SMART, lol!!
Hmmm, wonder if we can con them into hacking Nag3? ;)

[fn59]

There is (supposedly) a way of monitoring electronic communications without hardwire connections. It's called tempest hacking, whether it's myth or fact, I don't know, but you can google it and make your own conlcusions.

[Recove52]

What is Tempest
Tempest stands for Transient Electromagnetic Pulse Surveillance
Technology.
Computers and other electronic equipment release interference to their
surrounding environment. You may observe this by placing two video
monitors close together. The pictures will behave erratically until you
space them apart.
What is important for an observer is the emission of digital pulses (1s
and 0s) as these are used in computers. The channel for this radiation
is in two arrangements, radiated emissions and conducted emissions.
Radiated emissions are assembled when components in electrical devices
form to act as antennas. Conducted emissions are formed when radiation
is conducted along cables and wires.
Although most of the time these emissions are simply annoyances, they
can sometimes be very helpful. Suppose we wanted to see what project a
target was working on. We could sit in a van outside her office and use
sensitive electronic equipment to attempt to pick up and decipher the
radiated emissions from her video monitor. These emissions normally
exist at around 55-245 Mhz and can be picked up as far as one kilometer
away.
A monitoring device can distinguish between different sources emitting
radiation because the sources emanating the radiation are made up of
dissimilar elements and so this coupled with other factors varies the
emitted frequency. For example different electronic components in VDUs,
different manufacturing processes involved in reproducing the VDUs,
different line syncs, etc... By synchronizing our raster with the
targets raster we can passively draw the observed screen in real-time.
This technology can be acquired by anyone, not just government agencies.
The target could shield the emissions from her equipment or use
equipment that does not generate strong emissions. However, Tempest
equipment is not legal for civilian use in the United States.
Tempest is the US Government program for evaluation and endorsement of
electronic equipment that is safe from eavesdropping. Tempest
certification refers to the equipment having passed a testing phase and
agreeing to emanations rules specified in the government document NACSIM
5100A (Classified). This document sets forth the emanation levels that
the US Government believes equipment can give off without compromising
the information it is processing. and has been around since about 2004 been in use from 07-08

[dishuser]

The only 'signal testing' that I have heard that can and does work is for cable. I have a buddy that works for Comcast and he tells me that if you 'steal' cable more then likely you won't get the fitting back on tightly enough as they use a special tool for it and it leaks signal after you have tampered with the filter. That is the only 'signal testing' that I'm aware of that can catch a television pirate.

The van's outside the house, the "they can tell what channel your watching" from outside the house and all the other satellite stuff is just myth.that "special tool" costs $13 at princess auto...lol

[pugsycan]

I made one for a quarter
that "special tool" costs $13 at princess auto...lol

[dishuser]

I made one for a quarter

nice
once I removed a lock on a gas line with channel locks and an american screwdriver...lol
next day gas company showed up to restore service and my buddy handed them their lock and said it's taken care of ;)

[kyzursozay]

nice
once I removed a lock on a gas line with channel locks and an american screwdriver...lol
next day gas company showed up to restore service and my buddy handed them their lock and said it's taken care of ;)

used to the do same thing with a girlfriends electrical meter ....... after a few times doing this they removed the meter head finally the next time she fell behind on bill.....lol

[waldo]

that "special tool" costs $13 at princess auto...lol
do they have it ,at the one on panet or portage location

[fifties]

I'm not sure if this is the same thing that you characters are referring to, but many moons ago, I bought a deep 1/2" hex socket, cut out a 3/8" channel lengthwise, and filed the business end down to extremely thin, so it would slip around the cable, and then fit inside the collar they used to shield the F connector, at their distribution box at the street.

This was purely for experimentation, ya understand! ;)

[dishuser]

do they have it ,at the one on panet or portage location

hamilton
barton st

[jeldf]

hamilton
barton st

awesome store......you go in to get something and spend days wandering around looking at all their stuff lol

OK, back to the thread!

[stream]

The new electrical smart meters giving off radiation and more...sorry a little off topic...lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmS5pVEZHzg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WeDtQ7sXHU

[pugsycan]

The one I built "could have been used for" unlocking a cable box lock connector
The connector spins unless it spread open inside
as far as the cable sniffer it can read cable leakage (at least the one I dealt with) but a pop and seal connector (bought at any home depot) and a 7/16 wrench normally will take care of it also poor quality cable could radiate
I'm not sure if this is the same thing that you characters are referring to, but many moons ago, I bought a deep 1/2" hex socket, cut out a 3/8" channel lengthwise, and filed the business end down to extremely thin, so it would slip around the cable, and then fit inside the collar they used to shield the F connector, at their distribution box at the street.

This was purely for experimentation, ya understand! ;)

[sodusme]

The one I built "could have been used for" unlocking a cable box lock connector
The connector spins unless it spread open inside
as far as the cable sniffer it can read cable leakage (at least the one I dealt with) but a pop and seal connector (bought at any home depot) and a 7/16 wrench normally will take care of it also poor quality cable could radiate

Yeah a 7/16 wrench works wonders on cable connectors I noticed. The last jackass tech that was out decided he was going to unhook the splitter that fed the local basic cable channels to all our TV's in the house 'cause we were cable internet subscribers. He said "Oh well you don't need that splitter hooked up anymore"....of course not. So as soon as he left I went back out with a couple 7/16 wrenches and hooked the sh*t back up. Its attached to my house and as far as I'm concerned its mine to hook up or disconnect as I see fit.

[BanHammer]

Yeah a 7/16 wrench works wonders on cable connectors I noticed. The last jackass tech that was out decided he was going to unhook the splitter that fed the local basic cable channels to all our TV's in the house 'cause we were cable internet subscribers. He said "Oh well you don't need that splitter hooked up anymore"....of course not. So as soon as he left I went back out with a couple 7/16 wrenches and hooked the sh*t back up. Its attached to my house and as far as I'm concerned its mine to hook up or disconnect as I see fit.

what a ****stain

[ruthie]

Yeah a 7/16 wrench works wonders on cable connectors I noticed. The last jackass tech that was out decided he was going to unhook the splitter that fed the local basic cable channels to all our TV's in the house 'cause we were cable internet subscribers. He said "Oh well you don't need that splitter hooked up anymore"....of course not. So as soon as he left I went back out with a couple 7/16 wrenches and hooked the sh*t back up. Its attached to my house and as far as I'm concerned its mine to hook up or disconnect as I see fit.


Um no its not yours just a fyi and its illegal to tamper with them...hence there locked(usually) same as the hydro meter...gas meter etc......they can filter out just internet subscribers as well...not sure why the tech didn't....put the splitter in your house...still illegal to split the line but need a warrant to get in if they really want....lol as for the rest of the conversations about snap and seal etc connectors and leakage....yes and no they can tell if theres illegal subs....usually the reason for getting caught is from bad/cheap spliiters and connectors causing noise back into the system and causing the Node/SMT issues....just what i have heard...:innocent:

[sodusme]

Um no its not yours just a fyi and its illegal to tamper with them...hence there locked(usually) same as the hydro meter...gas meter etc......they can filter out just internet subscribers as well...not sure why the tech didn't....put the splitter in your house...still illegal to split the line but need a warrant to get in if they really want....lol as for the rest of the conversations about snap and seal etc connectors and leakage....yes and no they can tell if theres illegal subs....usually the reason for getting caught is from bad/cheap spliiters and connectors causing noise back into the system and causing the Node/SMT issues....just what i have heard...:innocent:

This isn't locked. It's just a regular Genesis 3-way splitter with the feed coming in and 3 going out with rubber boots on 'em. I don't think they are too worried about me receiving basic cable channels....its only a handful. But if they wanna press issue they are welcome to. "Gee I had no idea that was even hooked up I don't know why the tech. didn't disconnect it when he was out here"? "We have satellite and don't even watch basic cable". ;)

[ruthie]

This isn't locked. It's just a regular Genesis 3-way splitter with the feed coming in and 3 going out with rubber boots on 'em. I don't think they are too worried about me receiving basic cable channels....its only a handful. But if they wanna press issue they are welcome to. "Gee I had no idea that was even hooked up I don't know why the tech. didn't disconnect it when he was out here"? "We have satellite and don't even watch basic cable". ;)

Yup thats what i say...lol :tehe:

[Grave Digger]

So as soon as he left I went back out with a couple 7/16 wrenches and hooked the sh*t back up. Its attached to my house and as far as I'm concerned its mine to hook up or disconnect as I see fit.

uuummm, no its not yours just because its attached to your house,

the hydro meter is not yours, it belongs to the hydro company,

the gas meter is not yours, it belongs to the gas company,

the cable box is not yours, it belongs to the cable company,

the phone box is not yours, it belongs to the phone company,

if you do not want these items attached to your house, im sure they would be willing to remove them for you, along with the services they provide

[fonger]

you missed one:
the house is not yours, it belongs to the government.

[Anubis]

you missed one:
the house is not yours, it belongs to the government.

Isn't it the house is yours once the mortgage is paid but the property it sits on isn't?

[fonger]

just a technicality hahaha

[ticktack]

no, as fonger said.you will still pay taxes on that house and land till the day you die, unless of course you sell.so the goverment owns it all,we are just renters.

[sodusme]

uuummm, no its not yours just because its attached to your house,

the hydro meter is not yours, it belongs to the hydro company,

the gas meter is not yours, it belongs to the gas company,

the cable box is not yours, it belongs to the cable company,

the phone box is not yours, it belongs to the phone company,

if you do not want these items attached to your house, im sure they would be willing to remove them for you, along with the services they provide

Well for starters I don't know the first thing about hooking up or disconnecting a hydro meter, gas meter, or phone box, and there is no cable box attached to my house so I'm not sure where you got that one from. Cable boxes usually don't reside on a 'house' but may reside on a building in an apartment complex I suppose. My cable box is 30 FT up in the air on a phone pole across the street.

However if the cable company is going to leave a connection on my house that I can potentially tamper with....then as I said as far as I'm concerned....its mine to do with as I see fit. I didn't say it was right or wrong and I wasn't really looking for an opinion on it. Furthermore if the techs weren't so lazy they would climb up the pole and put in a filter....problem solved. But they don't seem to wanna do that.

I can't help but notice that you just joined in April and have a total of 4 posts....all of which are siding for the 'right side of the law'....I find that quite 'curious' for lack of a better explanation on my part. Makes me wonder what your 'agenda' is on here? To turn us all into law abiding citizens?

[junior1]

You got some good eyes there sodusme. 4 post and he knows what we should all do. Now, this post should either get back on track or be closed.

[fifties]

Cable boxes usually don't reside on a 'house' but may reside on a building in an apartment complex I suppose. My cable box is 30 FT up in the air on a phone pole across the street.

However if the cable company is going to leave a connection on my house that I can potentially tamper with....then as I said as far as I'm concerned....its mine to do with as I see fit.

Utilities generally have an easement on private property, to guarantee access to their equipment...For them. And AFA that equipment, it's their property...Tamper with it and you're breaking the law.

But you already know all this.

[1boxman]

no, as fonger said.you will still pay taxes on that house and land till the day you die, unless of course you sell.so the goverment owns it all,we are just renters.
Um ..House becomes yours after it is payed for. No further payments or taxes are paid out on house ..land yes . Tomato tamoto ..lol
But if you do not answer any letter it just might be someone elses..

[fifties]

Um ..House becomes yours after it is payed for. No further payments or taxes are paid out on house ..land yes .
In what country would that apply to?

[ticktack]

In what country would that apply to?

yea,I second your thread,fifties.

[dishuser]

In what country would that apply to?
none on this side of ocean
house is on property which is in default of payment which means you lose house

[dishuser]

yea,I second your thread,fifties.

it's called a post not a thread...lol

[c8rbk1ng]

Boy...has this thread gone off track! :)

[Condor]

you missed one:
the house is not yours, it belongs to the government.
You are absolutely correct Fonger... Even if your house is paid for... Anyone ever heard of "Imminent Domain"????... Happens all the time.. Here where I live the government took hundreds of homes away from people so they could widen a street...


Boy...has this thread gone off track! :)

Bunch of hijackers...Lol..

[alex70olds]

So now the Vgiddy letters are flying.

Gman was served AP

19952

Remember Zeta staff post?


When or IF I learn of more PERTINENT information, it will be passed along. Information that could cause harm to our members WILL be passed along, IF it proves to be FACT.

FACT is, all they ever cared about was selling donations. Just look at their actions. Hell there are still resellers using PP. They still have a resellers panel when you buy 8 or more codes. They still have never came clean on their site with what happened. Leo could care less, they can't get him in the DR. Even started another service and site. Here is an easy way to search posts made at the time this happened.


http://ftazeta.com/thanks.php?do=list&page=402&perpage=20

or


http://ftazeta.com/thanks.php?do=hottest

They knew then what had happened, and still lead sheep to the slaughter.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Never been to that site till now. Some of the usual comments. Evidence needed showing the TV was watching their content. :noidea:




I am NOT a Lawyer or EXPERT.. BUT.. I believe EXACTLY the same thing.. Unless the xxxxxxx have evidence showing that the TV was watching any "protected" content... the Dn people can KISS MY xxxxxx...


Not sure the above violated a rule here and if so apologize in advance.



GS2

[Nostradamus]

LOL that attitude is going to get him a long way in the court house BAHAHA

the funny part of this is, those people making posts like that, well if they get a letter they need to wear adult diapers to court to keep from making a puddle on the floor when their name is called

[clarkBENT]

The bar for civil cases is mere preponderance of the evidence. "The quantum of evidence that constitutes a preponderance cannot be reduced to a simple formula. A preponderance of evidence has been described as just enough evidence to make it more likely than not that the fact the claimant seeks to prove is true."

If you weren't going to use those codes for illicit (illegal satellite stream decoding) purposes, what the hell were you buying those codes for? Preponderance of the evidence AND COMMON SENSE tells the Court that you are GUILTY!


I am NOT a Lawyer or EXPERT.. BUT.. I believe EXACTLY the same thing.. Unless the xxxxxxx have evidence showing that the TV was watching any "protected" content... the Dn people can KISS MY xxxxxx...

[crazycool]

The thing is how can they prove that you were watching DN when you could have been watching BEV or telemex or any Indian, Hebrew or any other channels.

[dishuser]

The thing is how can they prove that you were watching DN when you could have been watching BEV or telemex or any Indian, Hebrew or any other channels.
why would they need to prove that?
they bought a code for stealing dn

[Nostradamus]

I don't know why people simply can't get it through their heads that DN really does not have to prove much of anything in a civil case. They already have proven to the justice system that they have...

[crazycool]

Your right Nostradamus, so what do you think pay the $3500 or ignore the letter or get legal advise? the only thing is what type of lawyer handles this type of cases?

[Nostradamus]

any lawyer that passed the bar exam should be able to give some basic advice, if he suggests fighting it and you decided to go the route then I would look for a specialist

[hondoharry]

Your right Nostradamus, so what do you think pay the $3500 or ignore the letter or get legal advise? the only thing is what type of lawyer handles this type of cases?

I'd pay the $3500 or try to negotiate it down myself. I wouldn't pay another lawyer another $500 or a dime to help me do that. I certainly wouldn't ignore it unless I had no job, credit or assets in which case they probably wouldn't have sent the letter in the first place. Remember they have your real name and address. They've seen your house on Google Earth street view and pulled your credit report. They've seen all your toys in the driveway and know exactly what you're worth.

[sodusme]

I'd pay the $3500 or try to negotiate it down myself. I wouldn't pay another lawyer another $500 or a dime to help me do that. I certainly wouldn't ignore it unless I had no job, credit or assets in which case they probably wouldn't have sent the letter in the first place. Remember they have your real name and address. They've seen your house on Google Earth street view and pulled your credit report. They've seen all your toys in the driveway and know exactly what you're worth.

I'm not sure they can pull a credit report without your knowledge. You can actually check that through:
https://www.creditkarma.com though. I don't believe they have the right to check your credit however.

[sodusme]

I'd pay the $3500 or try to negotiate it down myself. I wouldn't pay another lawyer another $500 or a dime to help me do that. I certainly wouldn't ignore it unless I had no job, credit or assets in which case they probably wouldn't have sent the letter in the first place. Remember they have your real name and address. They've seen your house on Google Earth street view and pulled your credit report. They've seen all your toys in the driveway and know exactly what you're worth.

In fact they cannot pull your credit report for the purpose of litigation:


http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/greenblt.shtm


In the 1990 Commentary on the FCRA, the Federal Trade Commission ("Commission") stated that "[t]he possibility that a party may be involved in litigation involving a consumer does not provide a permissible purpose for that party to receive a consumer report on such consumer . . . because litigation is not a 'business transaction' involving the consumer."

So if you find they HAVE in fact pulled a credit report and you can easily do so by going to credit karma and signing up for free they are in violation of the FTC's FCRA act.

[hondoharry]

In fact they cannot pull your credit report for the purpose of litigation:


http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/greenblt.shtm



So if you find they HAVE in fact pulled a credit report and you can easily do so by going to credit karma and signing up for free they are in violation of the FTC's FCRA act.

OK, so maybe they can't use it in court but DN as an issuer of credit can easily pull anyone's credit report. I'm betting they have and given it to the lawyers who decide who to pursue.

[clarkBENT]

OK, so maybe they can't use it in court but DN as an issuer of credit can easily pull anyone's credit report. I'm betting they have and given it to the lawyers who decide who to pursue.

I think they initially cast a wide net sending out letters to anyone they can affirmatively identify. After all, it's easy to change a name on a boilerplate letter. As for pursuing trial, that's a different story. Then, I'm sure they do a little background before suing someone who is essentially judgment proof (broke).

[sodusme]

OK, so maybe they can't use it in court but DN as an issuer of credit can easily pull anyone's credit report. I'm betting they have and given it to the lawyers who decide who to pursue.

They can't either unless you are "doing business" with them. There are federal statutes that protect against stuff like this. This isn't the old west where the "marshal" (D/N) can do whatever they want. It doesn't work that way. They have to follow federal statutes and guide lines. I know some of guys think because they are the great D/N they can do whatever they want. Well I'll tell you this let them pull my credit report some day without my authorizing it and I'll be owning Charlies Ergans desk and he'll be out on his @ss.

[hondoharry]

They can't either unless you are "doing business" with them. There are federal statutes that protect against stuff like this. This isn't the old west where the "marshal" (D/N) can do whatever they want. It doesn't work that way. They have to follow federal statutes and guide lines. I know some of guys think because they are the great D/N they can do whatever they want. Well I'll tell you this let them pull my credit report some day without my authorizing it and I'll be owning Charlies Ergans desk and he'll be out on his @ss.

You're assuming they abide by the law and you'd find out about it.

[DualTest]

And I think they can pull the credit records of someone who is applying for credit (ie their services) so anyone who was a DN subscriber, and had used Wufman or Vgiddy services were low hanging fruit.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

If people think they actually have to be in your house video taping you watching their programming they really don't understand Civil litigation. <br />
<br />
<br />
There would never be any successful lawsuits if...

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Only if you are prepared to defend yourself and you really don't have assets or a salary that can be garnished than fight on if you can devote time for it but if not than your best bet might be to...

[hondoharry]

No problem for them but may be for you depending on the interest rate they are charging in the payment plan. If it's at credit card rates you would be better off to pay it off or get cheaper...

[jvvh5897]

Look, if a thousand letters go out and those 1000 folks each throw $500 into a pot for legal defence you have half a million dollars in a defence fund--you can buy a LOT of defence for $500,000. Odds are they would work out a settelment at least, more likely they would dig up enough dirt that the provider would back off. Are provider's ads bait and switch--for 500k the defence might be able to make an argument. Yes, the defence would likely work so that they keep all the fund, but you would save $3000 each and make the prov think twice.

[sodusme]

You're assuming they abide by the law and you'd find out about it.

They can't "hide" it any "hard" or "soft" hit shows up on credit karma. The credit bureau's would have to be in on it and not disclose it on a credit report. My wife and I applied for a car loan last year and the guy was playing games with the interest rate and I knew what my credit score was well after I checked credit karma after a month or so I saw this jackass had pulled my credit through no less than like 6 lenders. I was not very happy about that as I never authorized him to seek out that many lenders. But it just goes to show you that every one of those hits showed up on that report.


And I think they can pull the credit records of someone who is applying for credit (ie their services) so anyone who was a DN subscriber, and had used Wufman or Vgiddy services were low hanging fruit.

That is absolutely correct. If you are a current customer and possibly a former customer they could pull your credit. I'm not a 100% sure on the former customer but I don't see why they couldn't.