DN $3500 demand

[dhiraja]

So I read the other threads and some people say seek legal advice, people say pay it, and others say DN are fishing. IS their anyone that tried each method... if so how did it work? If I just ignore it is that it or would this go to litigation. Second, they sent the letter to my parents house and they signed for it. I moved about 6 months ago (same state) and it's an official move too in other words post office and the city knows of my address change. Would that have any leverage?

[Dells]

about how long ago was the purchase? and to whom? A reseller?

[dhiraja]

I first bought from wuffman then from nokia. I brought from wuffman about a year or more ago and nokia about 6 months ago

[Dells]

Thanks for the response........I was curious to see if they were all still coming from the same roll over. I've seen some lately where people purchased 3 years ago from Wuf.

[dhiraja]

Can anyone else chime in?

[Peachseed]

No...The more you stir it the worse it stinks...

[smallyjohnson]

look at the code they sent you with the demand and you will be able to tell if it was wuffs or nokias. more than likely wuff as it seems they send them out in batches . also i think it depends what state your in for them to take it futher. look at the current filings for court they are only in a select few states . if you reside in one of the states that currently has a case going > well good luck! if you decide to ignore it make sure to tell your parents not to give your current address to anyone. in case its a proccess server. if they cant serve you it will make it harder for them to get a default judgement. as for the registered mail at the incorrect address it was probably sent to the address listed on your paypal assuming you paid that way godspeed "lil dik"

[cheff]

So I read the other threads and some people say seek legal advice, people say pay it, and others say DN are fishing. IS their anyone that tried each method... if so how did it work? If I just ignore it is that it or would this go to litigation. Second, they sent the letter to my parents house and they signed for it. I moved about 6 months ago (same state) and it's an official move too in other words post office and the city knows of my address change. Would that have any leverage?
Doesn't matter who bought code from now they have you. Only choice is to pay the 3500 it will cost you more to fight it. If they file in court which they will , you'll loose 10,000 . There's no other way out of it that's a fact.

[Just_angel]

I first bought from wuffman then from nokia. I brought from wuffman about a year or more ago and nokia about 6 months ago

i`m really curious to whom the reseller was ..the name should be in the documents

[sodusme]

So I read the other threads and some people say seek legal advice, people say pay it, and others say DN are fishing. IS their anyone that tried each method... if so how did it work? If I just ignore it is that it or would this go to litigation. Second, they sent the letter to my parents house and they signed for it. I moved about 6 months ago (same state) and it's an official move too in other words post office and the city knows of my address change. Would that have any leverage?

If it was 'certified' which it should have been to assure delivery and your parents signed for it then its good as trash. It has to be signed for by the recipient....unless you live at your parents house which you have already said you don't. There is no guarantee that you will ever see the letter by your parents signing for it. That is why it is sent 'certified' and that is why I say its as good as trash. Your parents could lose the letter, they could have a disagreement with you and not forward it to you, they could be forgetful and not even remember signing for the letter depending on their age, and so on and so forth.

I won't tell you what I would do as I'm not the average bear and I don't expect other people to follow my lead. But I do have a website that might help you:
http://www.piratecardblues.com/ If you read this guys article (he IS an attorney and I'm not) he seems to know what he's talking about. I think he even offers legal help/advice for like $49.00 Paypal. For that small amount you can't lose seeing what he has to say and who knows it might get the wolves off you.


Doesn't matter who bought code from now they have you. Only choice is to pay the 3500 it will cost you more to fight it. If they file in court which they will , you'll loose 10,000 . There's no other way out of it that's a fact.

No its not a 'fact' stop trying to scare the guy there is no guarantee which ever way he goes will cost anymore money then another way. You need to read some of the cases that Alex posted. Just because you are served a demand letter (which he legally wasn't since his parents signed for it) doesn't mean you are going to be sued, it also doesn't mean that you will automatically have to pay 10K.

[dhiraja]

I guess im nearing taking out a loan to pay this. I might lose my house over this crap. I wish I didn't bother with this crap. Im straight legit now.

[harescrambleracer]

Just from reading your post, you'll never have any peace of mind ignoring it, There are some lawyers out there that is beating this case and they aren't charging 10,000 dollars. If you get a lawyer that say it will cost this then find another one, he probably doesn't have a clue about this type of case.. You ought to at least talk to a few before you cave in and get a loan,, For starters one lawyer stopped this process by showing the ones taking you to court doesn't have the grounds to sue for copyright because only the ones that own the copyright can do that which would be only the ones that made the program or movie,, If this case gains ground it could overturn every law suite they have won.. It's an extremely big blow to DN. In other words call up and talk to a lawyer. The link sodusme can give you a little insight on this..

[sodusme]

I guess im nearing taking out a loan to pay this. I might lose my house over this crap. I wish I didn't bother with this crap. Im straight legit now.

Why the hell would you take out a loan already? Just relax did you even look at the URL I posted?

When his banner reads:
IKS problem with Dish Network (Echostar)? You’re in the right place. then you know he is familiar with this kind of stuff.

Not to mention he offers to 'advise' you for a hell of a lot less then 10K or even $3500 for that matter.


My fee is $299 per 1.5 hours of professional time, or part thereof. It is very rare that extra time is necessary. In the event I elect not to advise you, my sole obligation will be to refund my $299.00 fee to you.


In any event, I'm pleased to report that my “Unauthorized Exhibition Defense Lab”, which includes electronic piracy defense strategies (including both settlement and litigation) for a variety of offenses, is now available to assist you to easily and accurately evaluate your best course, including detailed instructions on how to obtain a much lower settlement without using an attorney. Both concise (just 15 pages) and user friendly, it is yours for only $49! Just click on the PayPal button below and my “Unauthorized Exhibition Defense Lab” will be emailed to you immediately.

If you're not gonna read and act on the advice given here then why ask for it I guess is my question? I'm beginning to wonder what side of the fence you are posting from now. You come on here and ask for 'advice'....which is forthcoming and given to you. Then you apparently ignore the advice and say "Well I'll just take out a loan this wasn't worth it". Kind of sounds suspicious to me bud. Almost like a public service announcement if you get where I'm coming from?

Anyways good luck 'cause your gonna need it with your attitude.


Just from reading your post, you'll never have any peace of mind ignoring it, There are some lawyers out there that is beating this case and they aren't charging 10,000 dollars. If you get a lawyer that say it will cost this then find another one, he probably doesn't have a clue about this type of case.. You ought to at least talk to a few before you cave in and get a loan,, For starters one lawyer stopped this process by showing the ones taking you to court doesn't have the grounds to sue for copyright because only the ones that own the copyright can do that which would be only the ones that made the program or movie,, If this case gains ground it could overturn every law suite they have won.. It's an extremely big blow to DN. In other words call up and talk to a lawyer. The link sodusme can give you a little insight on this..

Exactly....I posted a link to an attorney in New York that can help and its apparent that the o.p. ignored the link and already has his mind made up.

[iq180]

DN has no case, a half Axs lawyer could beat this case, they say the code has but one use and that is to get there service without
paying them for it, THIS IS NOT TRUE, infact you can use the code to get B3V, SKY Mexico, or DN, so they cant say you ever used it
to get there service, No Server Logs No Case,JMO.

[BPG]

I would talk to that lawyer first, but that's just me..... but What do I know :/

BPG~

[fifties]

For starters one lawyer stopped this process by showing the ones taking you to court doesn't have the grounds to sue for copyright because only the ones that own the copyright can do that which would be only the ones that made the program or movie,,
I would like to see you post a reference on this case.

DN's lawsuits don't simply name one alleged violation of law, but rather several. As an example, it is a violation of the DMCA to intercept an encrypted transmission W/O permission from the originating source, and that specific legal code makes no mention whatsoever of copyright infringement, which is addressed in other sections of the act.

And AFA serving a defendant; long time ago I needed to eliminate a phony TD that was on a foreclosed house that I had purchased (it was superior to the foreclosing TD). Instead of serving them directly, my lawyer had notice of summons to court and the complaint published for four consecutive weeks (the statute for this in my state) in a relatively obscure legal newspaper.
When no response to the court came forth, we proceeded to obtain a default judgment.

DN's lawyers could serve by publication in the defendants hometown newspaper, if they couldn't get him/her served directly.

[sodusme]

I would like to see you post a reference on this case.

DN's lawsuits don't simply name one alleged violation of law, but rather several. As an example, it is a violation of the DMCA to intercept an encrypted transmission W/O permission from the originating source, and that specific legal code makes no mention whatsoever of copyright infringement, which is addressed in other sections of the act.

And AFA serving a defendant; long time ago I needed to eliminate a phony TD that was on a foreclosed house that I had purchased (it was superior to the foreclosing TD). Instead of serving them directly, my lawyer had notice of summons to court and the complaint published for four consecutive weeks (the statute for this in my state) in a relatively obscure legal newspaper.
When no response to the court came forth, we proceeded to obtain a default judgment.

DN's lawyers could serve by publication in the defendants hometown newspaper, if they couldn't get him/her served directly.

I'm assuming by 'hometown' you mean the town he currently lives in? He doesn't live in the same town he grew up in which is the town his parents live in still I'm assuming. So that won't work for DN because obviously they don't know what town he lives in or they would have served him in his correct town and at the correct address already. ;)

They can put it in the paper where he grew up all they want....but if that is not a paper he would be able to subscribe to and/or read....it will do little good.

[fifties]

I'm assuming by 'hometown' you mean the town he currently lives in? He doesn't live in the same town he grew up in which is the town his parents live in still I'm assuming. So that won't work for DN because obviously they don't know what town he lives in or they would have served him in his correct town and at the correct address already. ;)

They can put it in the paper where he grew up all they want....but if that is not a paper he would be able to subscribe to and/or read....it will do little good.
I believe all the requirement says is that it has to be a newspaper of general circulation. Publishing the notice in the paper serving the area of the address where they believe the action took place, would most likely satisfy the court. Of course they would testify that they tried to do a personal service the required number of times, and the defendant would not answer the door.

[sodusme]

I believe all the requirement says is that it has to be a newspaper of general circulation. Publishing the notice in the paper serving the area of the address where they believe the action took place, would most likely satisfy the court. Of course they would testify that they tried to do a personal service the required number of times, and the defendant would not answer the door.

I'm not sure that would float if he showed (and he can) that he legally resides in another city where his is likely to not see the newspaper (if that is the case unless the paper is in syndication in both cities). You have to make an attempt to process serve in a legitimate way. His address change should be a matter of public record so somebody is obviously not doing their homework. The minute they said "We attempted process service at XYZ address and the defendant did not answer the door"....all he has to do is show that he doesn't live at that address and that will not look favorably on the plaintiff.

[fifties]

I'm not sure that would float if he showed (and he can) that he legally resides in another city where his is likely to not see the newspaper (if that is the case unless the paper is in syndication in both cities). You have to make an attempt to process serve in a legitimate way. His address change should be a matter of public record so somebody is obviously not doing their homework. The minute they said "We attempted process service at XYZ address and the defendant did not answer the door"....all he has to do is show that he doesn't live at that address and that will not look favorably on the plaintiff.
Perfect (for them), becuz how's he gonna show this evidence unless he appears in court? And that is the purpose of the summons, is it not?

[dishuser]

Perfect (for them), becuz how's he gonna show this evidence unless he appears in court? And that is the purpose of the summons, is it not?

but I thought DN had no leg to stand on?

[sodusme]

Perfect (for them), becuz how's he gonna show this evidence unless he appears in court? And that is the purpose of the summons, is it not?

Not voluntarily he doesn't....since he wasn't served 'properly'. Once he shows up (after being sued I suppose) if it looks like to the judge that DN was playing games and not attempting to serve him properly that won't look good for their case is what I'm saying.

Yes in a round about way they have gotten him into court....but which is best:

Get the defendant into court the proper way?
Get the defendant into court by proxy by playing games with the process service and p!ssing the judge off in the mean time?

I think I'd rather go the first route but that's just me. ;)

[fifties]

but I thought DN had no leg to stand on?
I personally have never posted anything definitive in that regard. Only suggested defenses that may or may not fly.


Not voluntarily he doesn't....since he wasn't served 'properly'. Once he shows up (after being sued I suppose) if it looks like to the judge that DN was playing games and not attempting to serve him properly that won't look good for their case is what I'm saying.

Yes in a round about way they have gotten him into court....but which is best:

Get the defendant into court the proper way?
Get the defendant into court by proxy by playing games with the process service and p!ssing the judge off in the mean time?

I think I'd rather go the first route but that's just me. ;)
Ever been in court, SOD? As long as the defendant is there, the judge doesn't give a sh*t what method brought him in.
And DN's lawyers, as "officers of the court", would be reasonably expected to have done their process service according to the letter of the law. I doubt that would be any issue whatsoever.

[sodusme]

I personally have never posted anything definitive in that regard. Only suggested defenses that may or may not fly.


Ever been in court, SOD? As long as the defendant is there, the judge doesn't give a sh*t what method brought him in.
And DN's lawyers, as "officers of the court", would be reasonably expected to have done their process service according to the letter of the law. I doubt that would be any issue whatsoever.

I've been in court....but never from a 'summons' no.

But in reading around it appears as though there is 'proper' and 'improper' service. As one anonymous poster stated:


The fact that improper service fortuitously leads to actual notice doesn't make the improper service proper. The propriety of service cannot turn on the fact that the defendant happens to have a good enough relationship with an ex-spouse that the ex forwarded the papers.

Which is the point I'm making....just because you wound up in court....doesn't make it 'right'.

[alex70olds]

From MFN Case


On January 27, 2012, as authorized by the Court (Dkt. No. 13 at 5:5-18), Plaintiffs served
their Original Complaint and summons on Defendants by way of substituted service via email and
website publication on the publicly available website located at

www.dishnetworkservingnotice.com/myfreeneeds. Since it has been over 21 days since service,
and since Defendants have not filed any responsive pleadings or Rule 12(b), (e), or (f) motions,
leave is necessary prior to DISH Network filing an amended pleading. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 15(a).

Here is the referenced order.

18085

[ftaalltheway]

I personally have never posted anything definitive in that regard. Only suggested defenses that may or may not fly.


Ever been in court, SOD? As long as the defendant is there, the judge doesn't give a sh*t what method brought him in.
And DN's lawyers, as "officers of the court", would be reasonably expected to have done their process service according to the letter of the law. I doubt that would be any issue whatsoever.

some would just move on,,,afterall,
dont DN's legal team have enough on that cherry tree to pick from,, ;)

[ftaalltheway]

From MFN Case



Here is the referenced order.

18085

owner of a website is diff than that of
an enduser, no??

[alex70olds]

owner of a website is diff than that of
an enduser, no??

Not when it comes to being served under the law.

[ftaalltheway]

Not when it comes to being served under the law.

the dickens you say?? lol

[fifties]

I've been in court....but never from a 'summons' no.

But in reading around it appears as though there is 'proper' and 'improper' service. As one anonymous poster stated:



Which is the point I'm making....just because you wound up in court....doesn't make it 'right'.
Do lawyers do sneaky things? As long as they get the defendant into the courtroom, doesn't really matter to the bench if they have been morally virtuous in the method they used.
I recall sometime in the past that one of the providers -I think it was Dave- offered some kind of prize, and were able to snare pirate user ID's by that method, in order to then proceed with lawsuits. Hardly moral, but financially effective.

[Nostradamus]

Do lawyers do sneaky things? As long as they get the defendant into the courtroom, doesn't really matter to the bench if they have been morally virtuous in the method they used.
I recall sometime in the past that one of the providers -I think it was Dave- offered some kind of prize, and were able to snare pirate user ID's by that method, in order to then proceed with lawsuits. Hardly moral, but financially effective.

yes it was Dave and what they done was they offered up some goodies on a channel, I think it was a big discount on subbing but the only place the channel was visible was on hacked boxes... legit subs never got the channel so everybody that jumped on that bandwagon landed in the septic pumping truck

[sodusme]

Do lawyers do sneaky things? As long as they get the defendant into the courtroom, doesn't really matter to the bench if they have been morally virtuous in the method they used.
I recall sometime in the past that one of the providers -I think it was Dave- offered some kind of prize, and were able to snare pirate user ID's by that method, in order to then proceed with lawsuits. Hardly moral, but financially effective.

But that's more of an 'investigatory' technique then an actual 'summons' to court. The act of you answering that advertisement was not indicative of you showing up in court. That was a preliminary stage of investigating satellite piracy at a point when summons hadn't even gone out yet. So that wouldn't pertain to this.

Also I beg to differ there is a certain morality with serving papers that must be adhered to. If its not its ground to have the summons and in some cases the entire case thrown out. You can make a motion to quash a summons or subpoena. But technically this doesn't apply because at this point since its simply a demand letter....the O.P would have to wait until an actual subpoena arrives for court or other means of getting him into court come into play, i.e. the obscure newspaper, serving his parents and so on and so forth.

When you reach the level of serving someone papers to appear in court there is a definite venue that must be followed and deviation from that will not look favorably on your court case.

[hondoharry]

Do your parents really want their neighbors to see a police car showing up delivering a summons that could become a story in the local papers?

[sodusme]

Do your parents really want their neighbors to see a police car showing up delivering a summons that could become a story in the local papers?

That's not how it happens. Very rarely is it the actual police that will roll up code 3 and all....LOL.

Most times its retired police officers, process servers, private investigators or someone else hired to do it that is not affiliated with the court case since you yourself cannot serve the papers.

[alex70olds]

You guys with letters may want to talk with this attorney. I might be reading too much into this, but it looks like a win!

18089
18090

[sodusme]

You guys with letters may want to talk with this attorney. I might be reading too much into this, but it looks like a win!

18089
18090

Yup kind of hard to prove satellite theft when the defendant is denying that he ever even had a satellite receiver.

I been saying this for months now that its a far cry from some Paypal records alleging purchases of codes to actual satellite theft. I'm just glad that somebody has found a half @ssed decent attorney that argued that point and won it it looks like and got the case dismissed.

[alex70olds]

Yup kind of hard to prove satellite theft when the defendant is denying that he ever even had a satellite receiver.

I been saying this for months now that its a far cry from some Paypal records alleging purchases of codes to actual satellite theft. I'm just glad that somebody has found a half @ssed decent attorney that argued that point and won it it looks like and got the case dismissed.

I think the kicker is no server logs IMHO.

[fifties]

You guys with letters may want to talk with this attorney. I might be reading too much into this, but it looks like a win!

18089
18090
Good.

I'm glad they followed my advice, lol. No proof of a receiver, no judgment.

[iq180]

I think the kicker is no server logs IMHO.
YEP, I was saying that when all this crap started, so lets hope it will stop now.

[hamburger]

It says they voluntarily dismissed the case Because it was SETTLED .

It does not say what that settlement was .

Could have been Nagra dropping the civil suit or it could have been an amount was paid .

Someone with a vested interest should call Magi's attorney to see if the " no reciever " defense worked .

NagraStar LLC (collectively, “DISH Network”), and Defendant Kailas Magi respectfully notify the Court of the parties’ settlement of this action.

[steveOtoo]

That's not how it happens. Very rarely is it the actual police that will roll up code 3 and all....LOL.

Most times its retired police officers, process servers, private investigators or someone else hired to do it that is not affiliated with the court case since you yourself cannot serve the papers.Watch out for that Pineapple Express process server.............:tehe:

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

It says they voluntarily dismissed the case Because it was SETTLED .

It does not say what that settlement was .

Could have been Nagra dropping the civil suit or it could have been an amount was paid .

Someone with a vested interest should call Magi's attorney to see if the " no reciever " defense worked .

NagraStar LLC (collectively, “DISH Network”), and Defendant Kailas Magi respectfully notify the Court of the parties’ settlement of this action.


With this there was no decision in law. Could mean it was good for this defendant or they just decided to settle.



GS2

[cheff]

Say's they settled, I'm sure it cost Magi more than $3500.00 with Attorney fee's and court cost's. Don't see how it's a win of any kind. Still doesn't help folks who received letter's. Bottom line they're going after end user's $ trail easy to follow and win win for them . Only cost $400 to file against you in Civil Court so yes they will file. Only answer if caught is to pay up. It's all about the $$$

[jeldf]

It says they voluntarily dismissed the case Because it was SETTLED .

It does not say what that settlement was .

Could have been Nagra dropping the civil suit or it could have been an amount was paid .

Someone with a vested interest should call Magi's attorney to see if the " no reciever " defense worked .

NagraStar LLC (collectively, “DISH Network”), and Defendant Kailas Magi respectfully notify the Court of the parties’ settlement of this action.

04/10/2013 join date.....welcome Oh wise one!

[alex70olds]

04/10/2013 join date.....welcome Oh wise one!

That is interesting.

[alex70olds]

Say's they settled, I'm sure it cost Magi more than $3500.00 with Attorney fee's and court cost's. Don't see how it's a win of any kind. Still doesn't help folks who received letter's. Bottom line they're going after end user's $ trail easy to follow and win win for them . Only cost $400 to file against you in Civil Court so yes they will file. Only answer if caught is to pay up. It's all about the $$$

Would not it help if they answered the demand letter the same?

[alex70olds]

It says they voluntarily dismissed the case Because it was SETTLED .

It does not say what that settlement was .

Could have been Nagra dropping the civil suit or it could have been an amount was paid .

Someone with a vested interest should call Magi's attorney to see if the " no reciever " defense worked .

NagraStar LLC (collectively, “DISH Network”), and Defendant Kailas Magi respectfully notify the Court of the parties’ settlement of this action.
What it does not say is they settled for a confidential amount, or anything close. It does say each party pays for its own legal fees. It also does not say that the court shall maintain jurisdiction to enforce settlement. IMHO I think it has more to do with it can not be proved he did connect to the server. I am surprised DN did not go the route of the code, in itself, ia a violation of the DMCA.

Edit I read the above wrong, the actual wording - No costs are to be assessed to any party. - I still think it appears to be a win.

[alex70olds]

The case is also stipulated dismissal with prejudice meaning Plaintiff is not able to ever refile case. my $.02

[sodusme]

What it does not say is they settled for a confidential amount, or anything close. It does say each party pays for its own legal fees. It also does not say that the court shall maintain jurisdiction to enforce settlement. IMHO I think it has more to do with it can not be proved he did connect to the server. I am surprised DN did not go the route of the code, in itself, ia a violation of the DMCA.

Edit I read the above wrong, the actual wording - No costs are to be assessed to any party. - I still think it appears to be a win.

I would believe that....

I think that one of these cases will end up in a 'landmark' ruling which as you and I agree will be that the codes are 'illegal'. DN is all about getting these stupid 'landmark' rulings on stupid things that they should never be granted.

[sodusme]

This is interesting....

Stumbled across this from some poor bastard that was being sued back in 2011. Apparently this is a site to ask a lawyer your question. This lawyer basically says the same thing we been saying on here:


http://www.justanswer.com/law/4k27n-sued-dishnetwork-illegally-using-signal.html


I would begin then by demanding proof of their claim and a breakdown of the damages. They cannot simply throw out a number or fail to provide basis for the claim. If they refuse, you may have it dismissed and file your own complaint with the BBB


Then you can ignore it or respond with a letter asking for proof of the claim.

I find the bold print of particle interest. Can't throw out a number without a basis for a claim huh? LOL

So you mean you can't just send somebody a demand letter saying they did wrong....without actually providing basis for the claim of wrong doing?

Hmm who'd have thunk it. :innocent:

[Anubis]

This is interesting....

Stumbled across this from some poor bastard that was being sued back in 2011. Apparently this is a site to ask a lawyer your question. This lawyer basically says the same thing we been saying on here:


http://www.justanswer.com/law/4k27n-sued-dishnetwork-illegally-using-signal.html





I find the bold print of particle interest. Can't throw out a number without a basis for a claim huh? LOL

So you mean you can't just send somebody a demand letter saying they did wrong....without actually providing basis for the claim of wrong doing?

Hmm who'd have thunk it. :innocent:

As soon as one asks for a breakdown of claim monetary wise the plaintiff in this case usually starts stammering as they don't have one. I have yet to see any claim in these cases that has given one. Makes one wonder now don't it.
I believe I remember reading in a thread somewhere where someone actually broke down what it would costs for a subscription plus legal fees, etc. and it was nowhere near what Nagra was seeking or getting in their cases for that matter.
Heck adding 20 years of inflation and cost of living to the sum still wouldn't bring it close. JMO as I know squat legally and I would be the first to seek an attorney for anything regarding a legal matter.:D

[GTO]

From the original case Dish filed against Magi, it looks like they wanted 110,000 damages from Magi, not the usual 3,500, unless I'm reading something wrong, so not the usual end user case.


http://www.satfix.net/showthread.php?128424-Dish-Network-LLC-v-Kailas-Magos-(El-******)


c/p

U.S. District Court [LIVE]
Eastern District of TEXAS (Sherman)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 4:13-cv-00035-RAS-DDB


DISH Network L.L.C. et al v. Magi
Assigned to: Judge Richard A. Schell
Referred to: Magistrate Judge Don D. Bush
Demand: $110,000
Cause: 28:1331 Fed Question: Fed Communications Act of 1
Date Filed: 01/18/2013
Jury Demand: None

[hamburger]

04/10/2013 join date.....welcome Oh wise one!

Point Being ?

[hamburger]

If nagra dropped the charges , it is highly unlikely the case would be dismissed with predjudice . It is more likely that a financial SETTLEMENT was reached on these charges precluding any further...

[alex70olds]

My thought was that they did not want the issue as to the code itself being decided. The defense could have threatened a counter suit, happens all the time. I have seen DN dismiss before with...

[hondoharry]

Point Being ?

Some people are hung up on post counts.

[jeldf]

Point Being ?

Point being, you seem very articulate and knowledgeable about a case and thread that was started 6 days ago and suddenly joined to chime in? This has nothing to do with post counts Hondo

[jeldf]

hamburgler? Sod? alex? Hondo? anyone? Wasn't looking to shut this discussion down although I liked the SETTLED parts of the conversation.

[rainman2]

What if someone received a letter for $3500.00 and you do not have that much money, for example you only have about $1,000.00
that you borrowed from family, and you are disabled and your food and rent takes most of your money. Let us say you want to clear your conscience and agree not to do it again. Would they accept the offer that it is all you can borrow from family and friends?
Has anybody done this?

[jeldf]

Don't know. Ask Hamburgler. He seems to know about financial SETTLEMENTS
Do some reading. Sod and Alex post some great posts but that is for you to decide. You get a letter?

[jeldf]

Point being, you seem very articulate and knowledgeable about a case and thread that was started 6 days ago and suddenly joined to chime in? This has nothing to do with post counts Hondo

Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread. I apologize.

[rainman2]

Yes, just want to avoid going to court. What do you think Hamburglar?

[jvvh5897]

The rule to bargaining is to start low and with a little knowlege of the real situation. First go to an attorney. Next get the prov to cough up the real info on the damages. Then make up a possible cost of covering the damages from other entertainment sources (Netflix is $8 per month unlimited isn't it?--so no more than $100US to cover the cost of what you might have gotten from prov in a year). They can't sue you for more than the REAL damages--the demand letters are a scare tactic and not likely to be what a good attorney would settle a case for. $1000 is way too much--10 cents on the dollar of the demand would be more typical settlement.

[alex70olds]

The rule to bargaining is to start low and with a little knowlege of the real situation. First go to an attorney. Next get the prov to cough up the real info on the damages. Then make up a possible cost of covering the damages from other entertainment sources (Netflix is $8 per month unlimited isn't it?--so no more than $100US to cover the cost of what you might have gotten from prov in a year). They can't sue you for more than the REAL damages--the demand letters are a scare tactic and not likely to be what a good attorney would settle a case for. $1000 is way too much--10 cents on the dollar of the demand would be more typical settlement.

Actually this is incorrect. They can sue for "statutory" amounts that congress set when the bowed to lobbiests to make this law.


2. award statutory damages against Defendants in the total amount of $115,000
for their 115 violations of section 1201(a)(2), calculated based on $1,000 for
each of violation as authorized by the DMCA, 17 U.S.C. § 1203(c)(3)(A);

[sodusme]

Actually this is incorrect. They can sue for "statutory" amounts that congress set when the bowed to lobbiests to make this law.

That shouldn't be allowed though....what 'harm' have they incurred I mean seriously?

Like I've said frankly they have no idea how much programming was viewed and what type of programming was viewed and for how long i.e. ppv, movies, sports, childrens programming. Hell maybe you were watching HSN for all they know. They have no idea what was viewed and for how long and when.

Apparently as posted on that 'ask an attorney' site they can't just throw out an arbitrary amount and expect payment be forth coming without proving their basis for that claim. I would think they would have to have some cold hard facts concerning the persons viewing habits and that is not likely to happen.

Like I've always said just because you steal a Cadillac does not mean you would have purchased said Cadillac if given the chance.

[hondoharry]

The rule to bargaining is to start low and with a little knowlege of the real situation. First go to an attorney. Next get the prov to cough up the real info on the damages. Then make up a possible cost of covering the damages from other entertainment sources (Netflix is $8 per month unlimited isn't it?--so no more than $100US to cover the cost of what you might have gotten from prov in a year).

If the situation warrants, I've always been in favor of bargaining to save a lot of hassle and be done with it. A good settlement might be based on a $100/mo. package for a year. $1200, that's all I can borrow. A lot better then $3500 or $10,000 plus on your record.

When push comes to shove, money trumps principle.

[rainman2]

Well I am going to call their attorneys up this week. I borrowed money from all my relatives the most I can come up with is $1,135.00 and they know I can't pay them back. I am on SSI and have no savings.

[jeldf]

bet they take it

[rainman2]

Hope so. Then I can move on and order Netflix. A whole lot cheaper. One thing I learned, Trust nobody.

[fifties]

Well I am going to call their attorneys up this week. I borrowed money from all my relatives the most I can come up with is $1,135.00 and they know I can't pay them back. I am on SSI and have no savings.
If you have no job, don't own Real Estate, and have no savings, you are prolly, "judgment proof". IOW, if they go to court and get a judgment against you, they'll have no way to collect on it. They'll eventually sell it to a debt collecting firm for 5-15 cents on the dollar.

[badboyz4life]

Fifties is right on this one ,i didnt want to post in this thread but you dont have nothing they cant take nothing,put a judgement own you and thats it

and ive had to put judgements against ppl who rent from me and never pay so i kick them out and the judge is the one who puts the judgement own them and they never have to or end up paying a dime.hell and they work its just not at the same place for to long
oops thats my dads property i dont own nothing
If you have no job, don't own Real Estate, and have no savings, you are prolly, "judgment proof". IOW, if they go to court and get a judgment against you, they'll have no way to collect on it. They'll eventually sell it to a debt collecting firm for 5-15 cents on the dollar.

[jeldf]

you can trust a few of us but read and go from there. Hope you never posted you were down or couldn't get a signal. Stay away from that. And that goes for everyone. Best of luck Fifties is right though

[rainman2]

Thanks guys appreciate all the info, and guidance.

[NoName]

Based on your situation, I would pay it and move on stay legit. At the end of the day, it all comes down to point of sale transaction. Getting served and avoiding getting served is a whole different ball game. If you can spend your life dogging getting served and a workaround etc then go for it. But think about the monies you saved using the p.s. you used and when you compare that with the $3500, it won't be in the end of the world. Besides, if you mess with the bull eventually you get the horns.

As long as they have a POS transaction which shows you purchasing something illegal, you won't have a leg to stand on (cost effective).

If its given as a donation, that might be a separate issue.

[fifties]

Based on your situation, I would pay it and move on stay legit. At the end of the day, it all comes down to point of sale transaction. Getting served and avoiding getting served is a whole different ball game. If you can spend your life dogging getting served and a workaround etc then go for it. But think about the monies you saved using the p.s. you used and when you compare that with the $3500, it won't be in the end of the world. Besides, if you mess with the bull eventually you get the horns.

As long as they have a POS transaction which shows you purchasing something illegal, you won't have a leg to stand on (cost effective).

If its given as a donation, that might be a separate issue.
You're missing the point here;

he has no job, where they could garnish wages. He says he's on disability, which can't be garnished. He has no savings, so there's no bank account to seize. If he doesn't own Real Estate property, there's nothing they can put a lien on.

Assuming this is the case, he's better off simply checking with a lawyer about the best financial strategy, which might just be to let them get a default judgment against him, because at the present would be un-collectable.

Later on in his life, if he needs to clean up his credit, he can pay off the collection agency who will eventually get the judgment, for cents on the dollar.

[waldo]

You're missing the point here;

he has no job, where they could garnish wages. He says he's on disability, which can't be garnished. He has no savings, so there's no bank account to seize. If he doesn't own Real Estate property, there's nothing they can put a lien on.

Assuming this is the case, he's better off simply checking with a lawyer about the best financial strategy, which might just be to let them get a default judgment against him, because at the present would be un-collectable.

Later on in his life, if he needs to clean up his credit, he can pay off the collection agency who will eventually get the judgment, for cents on the dollar.
i agree with you just to add there is a statue of limitations on old debt that differs in all states and provinces that they cant collect on mostly its 6 years..however acknowledging old debt after and up untill the 6 year limitation reverts the six years to restart again..best thing to do is avoid all communication with creditors..if you and jj choose to go that route

[NoName]

Much better advice than what I gave and very well said.


You're missing the point here;

he has no job, where they could garnish wages. He says he's on disability, which can't be garnished. He has no savings, so there's no bank account to seize. If he doesn't own Real Estate property, there's nothing they can put a lien on.

Assuming this is the case, he's better off simply checking with a lawyer about the best financial strategy, which might just be to let them get a default judgment against him, because at the present would be un-collectable.

Later on in his life, if he needs to clean up his credit, he can pay off the collection agency who will eventually get the judgment, for cents on the dollar.

[sodusme]

Much better advice than what I gave and very well said.

It was a mediocre post....don't inflate his ego.

:hehe:

J/K of course fifites my good man.

[Gomez]

Hi All~
I too have just received a certified mail, just last week. Bought my "donations" from wuffman, nokia and vgiddy. The letter is asking for $3500 and the promise I won't do it any more..I probably won't, as the resellers can't be trusted. Letter was addressed to me, but my wife signed for it. So guys, if you see an 8 1/2 X 11 envelope from Hagan Noll & Boyle LCC in your mailman's hand, be afraid, be very afraid. I haven't got the $3500, so don't know what I'm going to do. Have 30 days to respond, but for now, I'm going to set and wait, it's all I can do. By the way, this isn't the name I used to sign it with, I was a frequent poster on satfix, or the email address I used to use. I trust no one any more!!

[Akili]

Hi All~
I too have just received a certified mail, just last week. Bought my "donations" from wuffman, nokia and vgiddy. The letter is asking for $3500 and the promise I won't do it any more..I probably won't, as the resellers can't be trusted. Letter was addressed to me, but my wife signed for it. So guys, if you see an 8 1/2 X 11 envelope from Hagan Noll & Boyle LCC in your mailman's hand, be afraid, be very afraid. I haven't got the $3500, so don't know what I'm going to do. Have 30 days to respond, but for now, I'm going to set and wait, it's all I can do. By the way, this isn't the name I used to sign it with, I was a frequent poster on satfix, or the email address I used to use. I trust no one any more!!Go see a Professional legal counsel and get advice, preferably someone experienced in dmca matters,Spend the couple hundred it takes to get proper advice now then to regret it later.

[cheff]

Hi All~
I too have just received a certified mail, just last week. Bought my "donations" from wuffman, nokia and vgiddy. The letter is asking for $3500 and the promise I won't do it any more..I probably won't, as the resellers can't be trusted. Letter was addressed to me, but my wife signed for it. So guys, if you see an 8 1/2 X 11 envelope from Hagan Noll & Boyle LCC in your mailman's hand, be afraid, be very afraid. I haven't got the $3500, so don't know what I'm going to do. Have 30 days to respond, but for now, I'm going to set and wait, it's all I can do. By the way, this isn't the name I used to sign it with, I was a frequent poster on satfix, or the email address I used to use. I trust no one any more!!

Did it say who specifically you bought codes from did it say Wufman AKA Thomas Dick...

[notocer]

That is what mine said which I got a couple of weeks ago. Transaction date was 12/2/2011 so they are going through it all.

[NoName]

a bit odd for your first post to the forum.


Hi All~
I too have just received a certified mail, just last week. Bought my "donations" from wuffman, nokia and vgiddy. The letter is asking for $3500 and the promise I won't do it any more..I probably won't, as the resellers can't be trusted. Letter was addressed to me, but my wife signed for it. So guys, if you see an 8 1/2 X 11 envelope from Hagan Noll & Boyle LCC in your mailman's hand, be afraid, be very afraid. I haven't got the $3500, so don't know what I'm going to do. Have 30 days to respond, but for now, I'm going to set and wait, it's all I can do. By the way, this isn't the name I used to sign it with, I was a frequent poster on satfix, or the email address I used to use. I trust no one any more!!

[Gomez]

a bit odd for your first post to the forum.

Perhaps you should read my post again.

[Gomez]

Did it say who specifically you bought codes from did it say Wufman AKA Thomas Dick...

No name was mentioned, but the time frame of the purchases point to wufman.

[Gomez]

That is what mine said which I got a couple of weeks ago. Transaction date was 12/2/2011 so they are going through it all.

Yes, and they are just getting started. Anyone that did business with Wufman can expect a certified letter soon. Have read that a few other sellers have pulled up lame too, and are running for cover.

[norm155]

I also got a letter today from dish so i went a head and sent a payment out to piratecardblues but not sure what i am suppose to get and where to go from here..we have to much to lose to ignore it but is it worth it to fight

[fifties]

I also got a letter today from dish so i went a head and sent a payment out to piratecardblues but not sure what i am suppose to get and where to go from here..we have to much to lose to ignore it but is it worth it to fight
It's a high stakes poker game, with them daring you to call their bluff.

So far, we haven't seen an outcome of an actual court battle, with them having to show their hand (which to win would have to be sufficient evidence for the bench or jury, to agree that it tilts the case just enough for them to prevail).

Unfortunately for the defendants, it will assuredly cost you more -in both $ and stress- to pay an attorney to fight them, then to pay the $3500 (which BTW is chump change when it comes to legal fees).

[sodusme]

It's a high stakes poker game, with them daring you to call their bluff.

So far, we haven't seen an outcome of an actual court battle, with them having to show their hand (which to win would have to be sufficient evidence for the bench or jury, to agree that it tilts the case just enough for them to prevail).

Unfortunately for the defendants, it will assuredly cost you more -in both $ and stress- to pay an attorney to fight them, then to pay the $3500 (which BTW is chump change when it comes to legal fees).

That is probably one of the best posts I've seen here....and unfortunately every bit of it is true.

They know they have you over a barrel and they know the deck is stacked in their favor. I'm just waiting for someone that has nothing to lose to call that bluff and go all in. I know there is at least one Sammy Farha on here, there has to be. ;)

[budyyy]

Anyone know any Canadians who got letters? Starting to get worried, my uhh, friend bought from wuf over a year ago. :/

[norm155]

I have a lot to lose but i am not going to let them get away with the $3500 ..i will be talking to a lawyer and go from there

[alex70olds]

It makes sense they have been busy writing letters, only one new case filed since Jan 30. Must have the whole law firm concentrating on these demand letters.

[rev0]

If you have a lot to lose just give up all your belongings to charity. Problem solved you're a poor man now. Need to be in a better situation where the seller doesn't even know who the buyer is. IKS should lean to using Bitcoin and more anonymous systems compared to what it currently does. Cause there is still sellers accepting Paypal just because its easy. IKS shouldn't be easy, it should be smart.

[norm155]

ya right i will not had over anything to dish or charity i will fight this

[torpainter]

ya right i will not had over anything to dish or charity i will fight this

contacct magis lawyer ,his case was dismissed when he fought it

[fifties]

contacct magis lawyer ,his case was dismissed when he fought it
Hmm, do we know if they settled -and more importantly did they pay- out of court or not?

[JCO]

Hmm, do we know if they settled -and more importantly did they pay- out of court or not?

No one ever posted details.. It may be a good idea to speak to the lawyer and see what the outcome was..

[sodusme]

I have a lot to lose but i am not going to let them get away with the $3500 ..i will be talking to a lawyer and go from there

That's what I like to read....

18206

[MarvinGardens]

I agree that you should contact Magi's lawyer, however the case settled with Magi paying Dish an undisclosed sum.

[torpainter]

I agree that you should contact Magi's lawyer, however the case settled with Magi paying Dish an undisclosed sum.

does it say he paid anything in the documents?

[bkr™]

I have a lot to lose but i am not going to let them get away with the $3500 ..i will be talking to a lawyer and go from thereI am sure there are many persons agreeing w/you, I being 1 of many hundreds, I hope that your specifics will be known after the dust has settled. Make sure you have the proper stirring stick w/ ya.

[dishuser]

does it say he paid anything in the documents?

settled without prejudice is what I think it said

[notocer]

That's what I like to read....

18206

Yes would be interesting to see how one goes. However if you receive a letter and it has the codes bought, user name for satfix, date bought, email address, name bought from might make you think a bit. Now put your user name in the search spot and see how many posts you have done. Now read what you posted. Now think again about your choices.

[budyyy]

Anyone know if the 3500$ amount is negotiable.. let's say it would take one 1.5 years to raise that amount saving 100% of ones spare income could a judge or the lawers at dn lower it to say 1k?

[Highwayman]

Anyone know if the 3500$ amount is negotiable.. let's say it would take one 1.5 years to raise that amount saving 100% of ones spare income could a judge or the lawers at dn lower it to say 1k?

Wow i thought you bought your codes trying to expose the server that you
bought codes from to claim the 25.000.00 dollar reward that satscams offered
for information leading to the exposure of the server.There is a lot of money
to be made in this field big banks and others pay big money for hackers to
expose security leaks.

[bigbird]

Wow i thought you bought your codes trying to expose the server that you
bought codes from to claim the 25.000.00 dollar reward that satscams offered
for information leading to the exposure of the server.There is a lot of money
to be made in this field big banks and others pay big money for hackers to
expose security leaks.

Thats funny. Try and prove that in court.

bigbird

[sodusme]

Yes would be interesting to see how one goes. However if you receive a letter and it has the codes bought, user name for satfix, date bought, email address, name bought from might make you think a bit. Now put your user name in the search spot and see how many posts you have done. Now read what you posted. Now think again about your choices.

Well that is where I'm a little smarter then the average bear....

Now I'm not saying anything disparaging about anyone here but I can tell you that I may or may not have ran stand alone for years....and I would be willing to bet that no one on these sites except maybe a handful from staff on the site I mod at can tell me what I ran and for how long....if at all?

Whenever I posted any advice it was always 'third' party i.e. "I heard that to get the guide on XYZ receiver you can park it on ch. ABC for X amount of time." or "I believe I read where to set the clock on XYZ receiver you have to....". I never posted first hand knowledge about any receiver I may or may not have ran and I never posted about specific channels or events. ;)

[fifties]

the case settled with Magi paying Dish an undisclosed sum.
Your reference, please?

[alex70olds]

Your reference, please?


STIPULATION FOR ORDER OF DISMISSAL
Plaintiffs DISH Network L.L.C., EchoStar Technologies L.L.C., and NagraStar LLC (collectively, “DISH Network”), and Defendant Kailas Magi respectfully notify the Court of the parties’ settlement of this action. Pursuant to Rule 41(a)(1)(A)(ii) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, DISH Network voluntarily dismisses this action against Defendant with prejudice. No costs are to be assessed to any party.

I just don't see where either side had to pay anything. Perhaps I am just missing it.

[CF-47]

Costs are 'COURT COSTS' not settelment amounts. Sometimes means that it was arbritrated out, as you pay the arbritrator (firm) for their services and both sides ask the court to dismss the case.

[fifties]

DISH Network voluntarily dismisses this action

When a lawsuit is dismissed with prejudice, the court is saying that it has made a final determination on the merits of the case, and that the plaintiff is therefore forbidden from filing another lawsuit based on the same grounds.
OK, so what we know is, DN dropped the case, and per the description of "with prejudice" from NOLO, agreed to never sue him again for this activity.

What we don't know, however, is, did it cost him anything (to satisfy the plaintiff's complaint)? Court costs don't factor in here; those are primarily legal fees (lawyer's time).

[alex70olds]

OK, so what we know is, DN dropped the case, and per the description of "with prejudice" from NOLO, agreed to never sue him again for this activity.

What we don't know, however, is, did it cost him anything (to satisfy the plaintiff's complaint)? Court costs don't factor in here; those are primarily legal fees (lawyer's time).

I dont know if he had to pay Dish to settle, it does not state that.

It also does not state there was an injunction of any kind.

It does not state there was a confidential settlement.

It is quite simple, the case was dismissed, it states that.

This is not typical of all the cases I posted. I had to read everyone of them to compile the list. This case does not follow typical protocol of any case handled by Chad and associates. It may be just wishful thinking, but it seems on the surface a victory.

Again it does not state it was a confidential settlement, so it would be interesting what Magi's attorney has to say. Heck, he could certainly drum up some business by coming here and expressing his opinion, outside of client attorney privilege.

[norm155]

Ok i got the info from gary ruff ..it looks like it can help out. for the ones that got the letter i would be happy to share it but if anyone is willing to help cover the cost of it i would appreciate that .

[1boxman]

OK, so what we know is, DN dropped the case, and per the description of "with prejudice" from NOLO, agreed to never sue him again for this activity.

What we don't know, however, is, did it cost him anything (to satisfy the plaintiff's complaint)? Court costs don't factor in here; those are primarily legal fees (lawyer's time).

Ya that is the kicker...the unknowning of why they really dropped the case ..I guess we can assume..but sure bring up alot of question ...did he have info ?? where they wrong ?and so on ..but what ever it is ..my guess they will not let anyone know to the fact . So know can do the same ..

[fifties]

Ok i got the info from gary ruff ..it looks like it can help out. for the ones that got the letter i would be happy to share it but if anyone is willing to help cover the cost of it i would appreciate that .
Is Gary Ruff the attorney that handled Magi's case? Did this cost you $ to find out? If it could be outed here in the open, it could throttle DN's legal bulldogs.

[yappapi]

this is gary ruff

hxxp://www.piratecardblues.com/

[yappapi]

this is magi's attorney

hxxp://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Gilmer/nelson-associates-attorneys-at-law-pc/108324713.aspx

[norm155]

I will post the info later of what i got from gary ruff

[Anubis]

I will post the info later of what i got from gary ruff

We await with baited breath.:thumbsup:

[sodusme]

I will post the info later of what i got from gary ruff

Be very careful what you post....


Gary Ruff; all rights reserved. May not be reproduced in any form without the express permission of the author, except that “links” to the site are permitted. Contact author at 631.390.8338.

I'd hate to the site get in trouble or you yourself. This guy is an attorney so its probably best not to post that out in the open. He'll be all over that like a pitbull on a poodle if he finds out.

Just an FYI. ;)

[surfinisfun]

Be very careful what you post....



I'd hate to the site get in trouble or you yourself. This guy is an attorney so its probably best not to post that out in the open. He'll be all over that like a pitbull on a poodle if he finds out.

Just an FYI. ;)

Thats good advise sod, he could however post that he was helpful and if anyone has similar issues contact him.

[skyline68]

just by making a donation is illegal already? Don't it needs to be caught red handed in order to be guilty. Anyone care to comment?

[fifties]

Originally Posted by norm155
I will post the info later of what i got from gary ruff
Be very careful what you post....


Gary Ruff; all rights reserved. May not be reproduced in any form without the express permission of the author, except that “links” to the site are permitted. Contact author at 631.390.8338.
I'd hate to the site get in trouble or you yourself. This guy is an attorney so its probably best not to post that out in the open. He'll be all over that like a pitbull on a poodle if he finds out.

Just an FYI.


this is magi's attorney

hxxp://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Gilmer/nelson-associates-attorneys-at-law-pc/108324713.aspx
OK, let's not muddy the waters here. I had posted a question asking if the out of court settlement with DN had cost Magi anything, and norm155 posted that he had gotten the info from Gary Ruff.

I am unclear if the info he had received was the same as was used in the Magi case. If it was, and if it indeed helped Magi avoid paying anything, then it should definitely not be posted in the open. That said, if what Gary Ruff offers works in this manner, then that fact only -that his method works- should just as definitely be posted.

[Hannibalector]

So two cases of dismissal now, Magi and Dames, same dismissals, Nelson and associates for Magi, Faudlin Pierre for Dames

[sodusme]

OK, let's not muddy the waters here. I had posted a question asking if the out of court settlement with DN had cost Magi anything, and norm155 posted that he had gotten the info from Gary Ruff.

I am unclear if the info he had received was the same as was used in the Magi case. If it was, and if it indeed helped Magi avoid paying anything, then it should definitely not be posted in the open. That said, if what Gary Ruff offers works in this manner, then that fact only -that his method works- should just as definitely be posted.

I'm not trying to muddy anything but when the guy says:
I will post the info later of what i got from gary ruff that leads me to believe that he's going to post 'the information' which he purchased from Gary's site....and that would be a no-no. To my knowledge its not the same info. its two different attorneys so why would it be? Gary Ruff runs a website that I posted on here and a couple other sites. He specializes in copyright infringement and satellite theft. He offers for sale 'information' on his site:
http://www.piratecardblues.com for $49.00 to help you answer this demand letter without actually retaining him. I'm sure that some of the information parallels Magi's attorneys information but its not the same either. And unless norm has actually used the information he isn't going to have any first hand knowledge of whether it works or not anyways.

Saying that his 'method works' is totally different then posting the 'information'. Lets not split hairs here. If he wants to post 'it appears to work and is a good purchase' that's obviously fine. But I'm willing to bet that the powers that be don't want a disgruntled attorney going after this site 'cause some guy decided he was going to re-post in part or in whole what amounts to copyrighted information.

Use your head here people I don't think anyone wants to p!ss off an attorney and have him head hunting on here.

[alex70olds]

So two cases of dismissal now, Magi and Dames, same dismissals, Nelson and associates for Magi, Faudlin Pierre for Dames

The Dames case was the one GS2 and I were discussing earlier here on what constitutes a "Shotgun pleading". This is a DA case where they had server logs of Defendant's IP connecting to Justin's server. The Defendant also claimed that the mere posession of a "Code" does not in itself constitute a violation. Here are the relevant Docs, hope it can help somebody.

18227
18228
18229
18230

I tried my best to keep them in order.

[Gomez]

OK guys, here's the story....
Gary Ruff's $49 package was a waste of my money...I have it right here in front of me. His advice....pay the $3500 and hope they don't take you to court. I would put it up here, but he would probably sue me too......but I did manage to save it in a renamed PDF file :)
So, if you have "the letter", don't waste your time or money on Gary Ruff, put it towards your EchoStar bill, and don't do it again. I know I won't. I'll be watchin' a lot of crap with rabbit ears for awhile...till something safer comes along. Apple TV, Roku?

[alex70olds]

OK guys, here's the story....
Gary Ruff's $49 package was a waste of my money...I have it right here in front of me. His advice....pay the $3500 and hope they don't take you to court. I would put it up here, but he would probably sue me too......but I did manage to save it in a renamed PDF file :)
So, if you have "the letter", don't waste your time or money on Gary Ruff, put it towards your EchoStar bill, and don't do it again. I know I won't. I'll be watchin' a lot of crap with rabbit ears for awhile...till something safer comes along. Apple TV, Roku?

I have the jynxbox android. There are a lot of apps like XMBC that offer a legal alternative to piracy or the exorbinant high prices of cable or satellite. Homer has a lot of great reviews and how to's posted. Good luck to you!

[sodusme]

You did ask him for a refund right? LOL I know I sure as hell would. <br />
<br />
Hell I could give that advice and I'll only charge $19.99....and if you act in the next 15 minutes I'll double the offer, but...

[Anubis]

I'm in on your deal. I hear the VHS tape is quite the collectors item nowadays. :tehe:

[Gomez]

Hummm, that monkey tape sounds interesting.

[pugsycan]

You dont have it in Beta do you

[Gomez]

...and yes, I asked for a refund...........still waiting to here from him...won't hold my breath.

[Anubis]

You dont have it in Beta do you

Still using that thing eh pugsy. :tehe:

[fifties]

The Dames case was the one GS2 and I were discussing earlier here on what constitutes a "Shotgun pleading". This is a DA case where they had server logs of Defendant's IP connecting to Justin's server. The Defendant also claimed that the mere posession of a "Code" does not in itself constitute a violation. Here are the relevant Docs, hope it can help somebody.

18227
18228
18229
18230

I tried my best to keep them in order.
That was a beautiful defense, and could serve as a blueprint for anyone else.
Here they actually had goods on him via server logs, and still couldn't get a judgment...Brilliant!

I also like where they pointed out that the signal had already been decrypted before the end user received it, so he wasn't in any violation of intercepting an encrypted transmission, and that DN was only guessing as to how an IKS system works.

TY Alex!

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

That was a beautiful defense, and could serve as a blueprint for anyone else.
Here they actually had goods on him via server logs, and still couldn't get a judgment...Brilliant!

I also like where they pointed out that the signal had already been decrypted before the end user received it, so he wasn't in any violation of intercepting an encrypted transmission, and that DN was only guessing as to how an IKS system works.

TY Alex!


It says they settled. Without knowing the settlement details one does not know if this is a blueprint defense that is guaranteed successful. If they settled for nothing that says one thing. ( success ) If they settled on a certain amount it says another. ( maybe not so successful ) ?


There was another case involving a shotgun pleading. In that case the plaintiff just made an amended complaint and filled again. In that case the defendant ended up with a judgment. The plaintiff could have said we will just file an amended complaint like we did in the other case and than the defendant said how can we settle. It could be very good what happen here, just saying we really don't know for sure at this point.




Plaintiffs DISH Network L.L.C., EchoStar Technologies L.L.C., and NagraStar LLC
(collectively, “DISH Network”), and Defendant Frederick Dames respectfully notify the Court of
the parties’ settlement of this action.




GS2

[norm155]

Ok update on my situation..I have talked my my lawyer showed him the letter he said pay the $3500 he don't see anyway out of it. so i called the people that sent the letter out told to negotiate a lesser fine but they would not go for it,the only thing they would do is a payment plan so told them i would think it over.So now do i call there bluff and see if they would go to court or settle for a lesser fine

[rainman2]

Take the payment plan. Then this will not haunt you for the next 6-12 yrs. Just my suggestion.

[norm155]

going to think about it over the weekend

[sodusme]

Ok update on my situation..I have talked my my lawyer showed him the letter he said pay the $3500 he don't see anyway out of it. so i called the people that sent the letter out told to negotiate a lesser fine but they would not go for it,the only thing they would do is a payment plan so told them i would think it over.So now do i call there bluff and see if they would go to court or settle for a lesser fine

Honestly I would get a second opinion....

Shop it around to several attorneys and then decide.

[norm155]

At a $100 a shot to sit i can not do to many..This lawyer i talked to is a good lawyer and would love to take it if there was something to go on

[rainman2]

Take your lawyers advice. If you trust him, then follow your gut instincts.

[sodusme]

At a $100 a shot to sit i can not do to many..This lawyer i talked to is a good lawyer and would love to take it if there was something to go on

Most should be giving a free 'consultation'. Why are they charging?

I just had a free telephone consultation with a lawyer about suing Comcast for giving out a personal and private email address to an individual that claimed I was 'hacking' into his site. I won't confirm nor deny the allegations....but I contacted an attorney after the dimwit sent me a hostile email. It was apparent that he had gotten the email from when he made the complaint to Comcast's security dept. which was a big no no and breaks federal law.

Long story short it was going to cost 10K to get the ball rolling. I don't have 10K laying around so I dropped the matter and I also don't need Comcast sniffing traffic on my line. But it was a free consultation over the phone. Dude talked with me for like 30 minutes. Turns out he hates Comcast and litigates against them frequently in the Detroit area.

[jeldf]

Take your lawyers advice. If you trust him, then follow your gut instincts.

You're really optimistic! Twice in one night you recommend the guy to pay in a thread discussing why not to. I guess I should be like everyone else and just ignore your comments.

In reply to others, I would think most lawyer's wouldn't challenge based on the $$ value of the claim, it's not worth their time. But there must be some out there hungry to make name, just have to find one.

[cheff]

You're really optimistic! Twice in one night you recommend the guy to pay in a thread discussing why not to. I guess I should be like everyone else and just ignore your comments.

In reply to others, I would think most lawyer's wouldn't challenge based on the $$ value of the claim, it's not worth their time. But there must be some out there hungry to make name, just have to find one.

That may be true, But why would someone pay a lawyer $7500.00 to defend when you can settle for $3500.00 Oh by the way only cost around $400 for Hagen and boys to file case. So bottom line is pay or expect default of $10,000 . So if you got a letter those are the options . :yikes:

[fifties]

It says they settled. Without knowing the settlement details one does not know if this is a blueprint defense that is guaranteed successful. If they settled for nothing that says one thing. ( success ) If they settled on a certain amount it says another. ( maybe not so successful ) ?

From what I read, Dames filed a motion to dismiss, DN filed an opposition to it, and then both sides agreed on a stipulation to dismiss with prejudice. True, we do not know whether Dames had to pay anything to DN, but my gut instinct tells me that he came away cheaper (and maybe by far, given the defenses) with this settlement, than if they had fought it out in court.

Ok update on my situation..I have talked my my lawyer showed him the letter he said pay the $3500 he don't see anyway out of it. so i called the people that sent the letter out told to negotiate a lesser fine but they would not go for it,the only thing they would do is a payment plan so told them i would think it over.So now do i call there bluff and see if they would go to
court or settle for a lesser fine
They will take you to court and will sue you for 10 grand if they have to take that step. Why don't you look up the phone number of Dames' attorney, and call him?

[Hannibalector]

From what I read, Dames filed a motion to dismiss, DN filed an opposition to it, and then both sides agreed on a stipulation to dismiss with prejudice. True, we do not know whether Dames had to pay anything to DN, but my gut instinct tells me that he came away cheaper (and maybe by far, given the defenses) with this settlement, than if they had fought it out in court.

They will take you to court and will sue you for 10 grand if they have to take that step. Why don't you look up the phone number of Dames' attorney, and call him?

Bravo fifties........

I read Faudlin Pierre's bio, sports and entertainment, recieved his right to practise in 2008

[Hannibalector]

At a $100 a shot to sit i can not do to many..This lawyer i talked to is a good lawyer and would love to take it if there was something to go on

if the lawyer you talked to says theres nothing to go on after talking to him and he hasn't done any leg work or thought process he isn't so good is he ?

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

From what I read, Dames filed a motion to dismiss, DN filed an opposition to it, and then both sides agreed on a stipulation to dismiss with prejudice. True, we do not know whether Dames had to pay anything to DN, but my gut instinct tells me that he came away cheaper (and maybe by far, given the defenses) with this settlement, than if they had fought it out in court.

They will take you to court and will sue you for 10 grand if they have to take that step. Why don't you look up the phone number of Dames' attorney, and call him?


I understand your gut feeling. For me its 50/50 as we really just don't know. We might find out by other cases if they are any being pursued by defendants. I caution into reading too much until something else comes along to help substantiate going one way or the other with another case. The lawyer in this case should be able to give a heads up to other lawyers with defendants in other cases how it went down.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

if the lawyer you talked to says theres nothing to go on after talking to him and he hasn't done any leg work or thought process he isn't so good is he ?


A lawyer who says theres things to go on that costs you a lot in legal fees that does not turn out successful down the road is not so good either.


I think your forgetting this is not your money being spent and defendants have to make decisions if they want to gamble financially or not. I know I have been there. Gambled plenty and with it all finished and done now if I could have done it differently I would. Would have saved a lot of money. You just don't know in court and for some they might not feel comfortable rolling the dice. Lawyers are not always so truthful about chances and some are plenty happy to take your money while they lead you down a financial downfall.




GS2

[Anubis]

I understand your gut feeling. For me its 50/50 as we really just don't know. We might find out by other cases if they are any being pursued by defendants. I caution into reading too much until something else comes along to help substantiate going one way or the other with another case. The lawyer in this case should be able to give a heads up to other lawyers with defendants in other cases how it went down.

GS2

Ya think they don't talk? lol

[kyzursozay]

perhaps monsieur Dames will inadvertantly "spill the beans" to a friend about settlement details ........ who would then feel obligated to enlighten others lol

[sodusme]

Amen, been there done that. A fleeing and eluding charge back in '94 that I hired a well known local attorney for who said &quot;Oh we'll get it reduced to something like you didn't have your registration...

[norm155]

A lawyer who says theres things to go on that costs you a lot in legal fees that does not turn out successful down the road is not so good either.


I think your forgetting this is not your money being spent and defendants have to make decisions if they want to gamble financially or not. I know I have been there. Gambled plenty and with it all finished and done now if I could have done it differently I would. Would have saved a lot of money. You just don't know in court and for some they might not feel comfortable rolling the dice. Lawyers are not always so truthful about chances and some are plenty happy to take your money while they lead you down a financial downfall.




GS2
I have had my share of lawyers over the years for some of the things i have done .Living in northern ny on the Canadian border has it's advantages and also put's me in a bad situation at times. some lawyers are good some are bad i am not willing to dump more on a lawyer than what the fine is,i do under stand it could help other's if i was to beat this but who here is willing to help me pay for that lawyer ?????????????????

[Grave Digger]

big mistake on your part, <br />
<br />
contacting them and asking for a lesser amount is admitting guilt, that phone call can and will be used against you in court, never contact them yourself, even if you...

[alex70olds]

I normally don't respond to any of this, but I will tell you I talked to the lawyer that represented magi, where his case says dismissed, it is true, but it wasn't dismissed on a win situation, it cost him dearly. The lawyer also stated that they will not stop, they will send you one letter for either 3500, or,,5000, and if you do not respond, it goes into another pile of paperwork, and they will be the cases you see paying 10,000 or more, he has my letter. I am not taking that chance I don't have 3500 even. so hopefully he can work a deal, I am not admitting guilt , but I do want this taken care of is what I said. I will let you know the outcome or what happens to me next. So from the chit chat with the lawyer all I see is you better not ignore it.

Certainly not the news I had hoped for, but at least we really know what happened in the Magi case. Thanks to Patrick for calling and sharing what he found out.

[fifties]

Originally Posted by patricks5235 @ DSSPros
I normally don't respond to any of this, but I will tell you I talked to the lawyer that represented magi, where his case says dismissed, it is true, but it wasn't dismissed on a win situation, it cost him dearly.
Certainly not the news I had hoped for, but at least we really know what happened in the Magi case. Thanks to Patrick for calling and sharing what he found out.
Alex, can you find out anything on the Dame's case settlement?

[Hannibalector]

Alex, can you find out anything on the Dame's case settlement?

I'll tell you what fifties I will send a letter email to Faudlin Pierre to see what he says to the matter as best he can, here is a copy of the email I would send to him for everyone to proof read and change or add to

Dear Mr Faudlin Pierre

There is much discussion taking place on several sites with regards to your representation of Mr Fredrick Dames in which a dismissal
was the outcome of the case as was taken from pacer, it is important that people who are members of these sites recieve proper information
on process and what to do about being the recipient of letters from D*shnetworks attorney's.

it is believed that the outcome of the dismissal could be a basis for others to consider taking up the cause to fight the letters
of demand for there own situations, there are many out there who believe that they're innocent of theft and the intent is not sufficient
enough to give into the requests from the attorney's offices.

your name is being suggested to by the members of these sites as one to call if they find themselves in reciept from D*shnetwork/Nagra
attorney's, the Fredrick Dames case is believed to be a bench mark as a result of dismissal, your advice would be greatly appreciated
on this matter as a clear direction on what the members should know how to proceed and whether the dismissal is a valid reason for
people to think fighting the letters is a worth while cause.

I'll send it later today

[kboom]

This is the second letter c/p from another site.

[struckrk]

Not true,there is a full release in the letter they send you as long as the two conditions are satisfied,the letter and the money, however if they find you ordered from another IKS server other than...

[1boxman]

Well I am glad most now are stating not to ignore them ...as before . Now on the note of them coming after you twice.or more .they can ..but after being convected and a settlement made ..all so under stand they make you sign a gag or a order of such that you will not enter into iks again . So this raises another problem ... Another problem of the civil court . Maybe those that do settle should add there own order .

[viejox11]

I got the same letter from HAGAN NOLL & BOYLE last week,I called PIERRE FAUDLIN and He said for $750 help me with a settlement, but no guarantee on results, and I can not go out of this without paying.,so I will do next is talk to my lawyer, see what happen. I will do a update later this week.

[sodusme]

So you guys that have seen attorneys do you get the feeling that Hagan, Noll and Boyle has this cinched down OR do you feel they are such 'big fish' that maybe small time attorneys are a little afraid of them? I'm just curious if you got a read from your attorneys as to whether your attorney thinks its just an open and shut case or if he's a little uneasy about going up against a large firm like this?

The reason I'm asking is it seems like I keep reading where guys consult an attorney and the attorney says "Pay up" or something similar. Are these guys such piranhas that everyone is afraid of them?

[ranger]

Is this like the many other letters that involve PP and Wuf**n or something else ???

[fifties]

So you guys that have seen attorneys do you get the feeling that Hagan, Noll and Boyle has this cinched down OR do you feel they are such 'big fish' that maybe small time attorneys are a little afraid of them? I'm just curious if you got a read from your attorneys as to whether your attorney thinks its just an open and shut case or if he's a little uneasy about going up against a large firm like this?

The reason I'm asking is it seems like I keep reading where guys consult an attorney and the attorney says "Pay up" or something similar. Are these guys such piranhas that everyone is afraid of them?
SOD, my take on it is that this type of suit is far and away from the norm; it's not something your garden variety ambulance chaser is at all familiar with.

IIRC, there was one experienced attorney during Dave's reign of terror in the courts who was able to defeat them repeatedly - one. Maybe Mr. Faudlin, esquire, will be that one in the present scenario.

[alex70olds]

SOD, my take on it is that this type of suit is far and away from the norm; it's not something your garden variety ambulance chaser is at all familiar with.

IIRC, there was one experienced attorney during Dave's reign of terror in the courts who was able to defeat them repeatedly - one. Maybe Mr. Faudlin, esquire, will be that one in the present scenario.

The unfortunate situation is it is going to take someone willing to pay a he!! of a lot more to defend, than what it is to settle. And I am sure they are keeping the ISP subponeas in their back pocket until they need it. Hate to say it, I am back to thinking they have a slam dunk.

[sodusme]

SOD, my take on it is that this type of suit is far and away from the norm; it's not something your garden variety ambulance chaser is at all familiar with.

IIRC, there was one experienced attorney during Dave's reign of terror in the courts who was able to defeat them repeatedly - one. Maybe Mr. Faudlin, esquire, will be that one in the present scenario.

All you need is an attorney that specializes in copyright lawsuit and DMCA matters. It shouldn't be that hard to find one. Hell I live in the sticks and could find probably half a dozen right now.

[fifties]

All you need is an attorney that specializes in copyright lawsuit and DMCA matters. It shouldn't be that hard to find one. Hell I live in the sticks and could find probably half a dozen right now.
Not so easy, my boy;
doubtful that a copyright law attorney would be that cognizant with this type of litigation, and a DMCA specialist would be pretty rare indeed, given the extremely narrow field of potential clientele.

Most attorneys, as we have seen in posts referencing their advice, will simply err on the side of caution, recommending paying the lessor amount. Even if there were a knowledgeable lawyer, perhaps Faudlin, they recognize that it will cost the client more to fight it.

In the post where he said that for $750 he would assist in the settlement, for example; he would have to be able to get it below (3500 - 750) $2750 to legitimately earn his fee. He didn't say that he could beat them in court, and even if that was so, the cost would prolly be in the 5K range.

[sodusme]

Not so easy, my boy;
doubtful that a copyright law attorney would be that cognizant with this type of litigation, and a DMCA specialist would be pretty rare indeed, given the extremely narrow field of potential clientele.

Most attorneys, as we have seen in posts referencing their advice, will simply err on the side of caution, recommending paying the lessor amount. Even if there were a knowledgeable lawyer, perhaps Faudlin, they recognize that it will cost the client more to fight it.

In the post where he said that for $750 he would assist in the settlement, for example; he would have to be able to get it below (3500 - 750) $2750 to legitimately earn his fee. He didn't say that he could beat them in court, and even if that was so, the cost would prolly be in the 5K range.

Its not? ;)


http://www.avvo.com/copyright-infringement-lawyer/mi.html


http://michigancopyrightattorney.com/

Nah it IS that easy to find one. Now I never said it would be cheap of course....but easy....hell yes. It really shouldn't be that hard to draft up a letter countering these allegations either. Then of course you go from there. If its to court then you go to court, if the demand letter answer works then you are off the hook. But its my understanding that none of these attorneys have even offered to draft a response to this demand letter. And before you say "There is no acceptable response"....there is. You just have to have the right verbiage and know what you are talking about.

I think it was another site where I pointed out that Hagan, Noll and Boyle are actually citing the wrong paragraph of the DMCA law that they are supposedly alleging these people broke. They are quoting the one about actual signal theft instead of using the other sub-paragraphs that pertain to possession of equipment that has only one use. Which is what they should be citing in their demand letter. I think its USC 17 1201 (1)(A) when they should be using USC 17 1201 (2)(b) and either (A)(B) or (C):


http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201

Paragraph quoted in demand letter:


(a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. — (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter.

Paragraph that actually fits alleged wrongdoing:


(b) Additional Violations. — (1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that —

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;

(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof; or

(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof.

Every attorney wants you to think "Oh its SO tough to understand this copyright law" when its actually not. Its pretty cut and dry if you read the sh*t and follow along with the paragraphs and sub-paragraphs.

[fifties]

You're still missing the point, SOD; that it's cheaper to pay the $3500 than to pay more for litigation.

[Hannibalector]

Mr Faudlin Pierre wrote back today, you might find out soon enough to what the answers to the questions might be, then again who knows, I have a sneekin suspicion we may hear from him

[skyline68]

Mr Faudlin Pierre wrote back today, you might find out soon enough to what the answers to the questions might be, then again who knows, I have a sneekin suspicion we may hear from him

when will you share that letter. sure eager to know

[fifties]

when will you share that letter. sure eager to know
He's waiting for the drum roll...;)

[sodusme]

You're still missing the point, SOD; that it's cheaper to pay the $3500 than to pay more for litigation.

No what I'm saying is that if you find a 'good' attorney i.e. that is one that knows copyright law and DMCA law in and out, and will draft up a letter for you, you have a fighting chance at least. It doesn't necessarily mean paying 'more' than the $3500 but of course the attorney can tell you whether its gonna be more with his retainer and sending a couple letters than it is if you just pay this. I'm not reading this here. Now maybe that is what the attorneys are saying to these guys but I'd like to hear it from them. So far all that is being posted is "The attorney said pay it". I'd like to know why he said pay it? Does the attorney think its cheaper? Is the attorney timid about litigating against a large law firm? Does the attorney think its a losing battle? These are the questions I'm curious about. :yes:

[Grave Digger]

very simple, DN/NAG have better lawyers then he is, they are experienced and highly educated on the subject at hand, and your attorney is not, he is being honest with you and basically saying &quot;i will...

[Hannibalector]

The unfortunate situation is it is going to take someone willing to pay a he!! of a lot more to defend, than what it is to settle. And I am sure they are keeping the ISP subponeas in their back pocket until they need it. Hate to say it, I am back to thinking they have a slam dunk.

I would think if in the position where as your ISP records were subpoenad you would be able to find out if they infact were subpoenad.

[Grave Digger]

The unfortunate situation is it is going to take someone willing to pay a he!! of a lot more to defend, than what it is to settle. And I am sure they are keeping the ISP subponeas in their back pocket until they need it. Hate to say it, I am back to thinking they have a slam dunk.

they would not even risk going to court unless they were 120% sure they had a slam dunk, its over before you even enter the courtroom....they are not bluffing, they are not fishing, the letters and threats are real....ignoring the letters will only end up costing you much more, dont stick your head in the sand, its not going to go away

[sodusme]

I would think if in the position where as your ISP records were subpoenad you would be able to find out if they infact were subpoenad.

True many ISP's have a clause that stipulates they must notify you if your records are subpoenaed. You'd have to read your TOS to be sure.

[sodusme]

I find that hard to believe. These guys (Hagan, Noll and Boyle) don't even know what sub-paragraph of the DMCA law they are quoting applies to the alleged wrong doing here. To me that is just plain...

[kboom]

Will be interesting to see what the letter from Mr Pierre has to say. Everyone's situation is different. My friend said that after 30 years of free tv the fine averages out to about 8 dollars a month. Go figure. lol.

[alex70olds]

they would not even risk going to court unless they were 120% sure they had a slam dunk, its over before you even enter the courtroom....they are not bluffing, they are not fishing, the letters and threats are real....ignoring the letters will only end up costing you much more, dont stick your head in the sand, its not going to go away

If you were to read my posts, you will see I have been saying that since day one. In fact I have been preaching about the dangers of IKS way before any cases were filed. I gave up, people only believe what they want to hear.

[jeldf]

I find that hard to believe. These guys (Hagan, Noll and Boyle) don't even know what sub-paragraph of the DMCA law they are quoting applies to the alleged wrong doing here. To me that is just plain stupidity especially when a laymen like me can read the law and ascertain what sections apply here for possible litigation.

I don't think you will convince Mr Digger SOD. He seems to know about DN/NAG lawyers way more than you.........

[Anubis]

If you were to read my posts, you will see I have been saying that since day one. In fact I have been preaching about the dangers of IKS way before any cases were filed. I gave up, people only believe what they want to hear.

What? :tehe:

[sodusme]

What? :tehe:

Yeah....what? You mean IKS is dangerous? You mean to tell me that 'transparent' proxies won't work? :tehe:

[alex70olds]

LMFAO! Got me! :D

[struckrk]

So you guys that have seen attorneys do you get the feeling that Hagan, Noll and Boyle has this cinched down OR do you feel they are such 'big fish' that maybe small time attorneys are a little afraid of them? I'm just curious if you got a read from your attorneys as to whether your attorney thinks its just an open and shut case or if he's a little uneasy about going up against a large firm like this?

The reason I'm asking is it seems like I keep reading where guys consult an attorney and the attorney says "Pay up" or something similar. Are these guys such piranhas that everyone is afraid of them?

Attorney in the family and although not familiar with with type of litigation,did some research and consulted a couple of other attorneys and said little to no chance of winning,precedent has been set and the typical defenses used will not work.

[jeldf]

Attorney in the family and although not familiar with with type of litigation,did some research and consulted a couple of other attorneys and said little to no chance of winning,precedent has been set and the typical defenses used will not work.

2nd post ever lol...please provide some insight into "precedent has been set" Mr Attorney in the family!

[dishuser]

2nd post ever lol...please provide some insight into "precedent has been set" Mr Attorney in the family!
prior settlements/judgments...read them
and what does a post count have to do with anything?
with every post you became smarter?:rolleyes:

[kboom]

2nd post ever lol...please provide some insight into "precedent has been set" Mr Attorney in the family!

Lot's of folks may be coming back in under a new name. Post count doesn't tell the whole story and bashing isn't necessary.

[sodusme]

Alright, alright....pay my air fair for me and the misses to Texas and I'll litigate this for you.

Alex cook up some shrimp and fish and keep the beer on ice I'm comin' to Texas baby!!!!

:jawdrop:

[jeldf]

Lot's of folks may be coming back in under a new name. Post count doesn't tell the whole story and bashing isn't necessary.

Sorry, didn't mean to bash anyone. I was only asking for clarification as to an Attorney not familiar with the litigation, to explain further what the other Attorneys had to say and if "typical defenses used will not work" then Why?

[jeldf]

prior settlements/judgments...read them
and what does a post count have to do with anything?
with every post you became smarter?:rolleyes:

Yes DU, I am smarter today! Thank you

[dishuser]

Yes DU, I am smarter today! Thank you
you better start making more posts...lol

[jeldf]

Thank you,once again I will, lol

[kboom]

Alright, alright....pay my air fair for me and the misses to Texas and I'll litigate this for you.

Alex cook up some shrimp and fish and keep the beer on ice I'm comin' to Texas baby!!!!

:jawdrop:

Now that would be interesting.........lol

[kboom]

Mr Faudlin Pierre wrote back today, you might find out soon enough to what the answers to the questions might be, then again who knows, I have a sneekin suspicion we may hear from him

Did he give you information that can be shared? Or is it that he might be looking into it. Kind of left hanging on this one. Tks

[struckrk]

2nd post ever lol...please provide some insight into "precedent has been set" Mr Attorney in the family!

Tons of post before we had to reregister and the precedent is that anyone who has ignored the letter or trys to claim they cant pay gets a judgement against them. Please correct me if i am wrong but nobody has won against them.

[struckrk]

Sorry, didn't mean to bash anyone. I was only asking for clarification as to an Attorney not familiar with the litigation, to explain further what the other Attorneys had to say and if "typical defenses used will not work" then Why?

Typical defenses being i bought the 20 codes but didnt use them or i didnt know what they were for or it was just a donation or lets see someone hacked my paypal account or whatever stupid excuse me and alot of other people on here tried to come up with to get out of this. You know what worked for me,paying the $3500

[jeldf]

Tons of post before we had to reregister and the precedent is that anyone who has ignored the letter or trys to claim they cant pay gets a judgement against them. Please correct me if i am wrong but nobody has won against them.

Well Sh*tscams has been very quiet lately and we all know how they like to brag about their wins! So are they winning or settling?

[yappapi]

Well Sh*tscams has been very quiet lately and we all know how they like to brag about their wins! So are they winning or settling?

either equals a win for them.

[jeldf]

Typical defenses being i bought the 20 codes but didnt use them or i didnt know what they were for or it was just a donation or lets see someone hacked my paypal account or whatever stupid excuse me and alot of other people on here tried to come up with to get out of this. You know what worked for me,paying the $3500

So you are saying you had many posts as we all did prior to the pruning....you got a letter and paid. So everyone else should just pay? Many posts would make you more than a junior member if you pm'd the admins.
Hey, I agree, pay them the money.

[yappapi]

So you are saying you had many posts as we all did prior to the pruning....you got a letter and paid. So everyone else should just pay? Many posts would make you more than a junior member if you pm'd the admins.
Hey, I agree, pay them the money.

i never got my post count back nor did some big # peeps.
it is what it is.

[dishuser]

So you are saying you had many posts as we all did prior to the pruning....you got a letter and paid. So everyone else should just pay? Many posts would make you more than a junior member if you pm'd the admins.
Hey, I agree, pay them the money.
I was at over 10k in posts before last fall
I had to start at #1 just like most

[sodusme]

I was at over 10k in posts before last fall
I had to start at #1 just like most

And look at ya' now....

You got a shot of whiskey, a heart, a beer, and some crown royal. Of course some will argue that its not possible for you to have a heart but I seen it with my own eyes so I can attest to it. :yes:

[surfinisfun]

And look at ya' now....

You got a shot of whiskey, a heart, a beer, and some crown royal. Of course some will argue that its not possible for you to have a heart but I seen it with my own eyes so I can attest to it. :yes:

Now now, if you're suggesting DU has a heart or some sort of soft spot i think we'll have to move this thread into the rumor section.lol

Sorry for the 11th hijack.lmfao

[Hannibalector]

Did he give you information that can be shared? Or is it that he might be looking into it. Kind of left hanging on this one. Tks

no he did not, his only answer to me from what I wrote to him was "what sites are these" in reference to discussions taking place where as he could be of assistance in advising, I have written back to him with no answer back as of yet

[kboom]

So you are saying you had many posts as we all did prior to the pruning....you got a letter and paid. So everyone else should just pay? Many posts would make you more than a junior member if you pm'd the admins.
Hey, I agree, pay them the money.

Yeppers it is what it is. You play you pay and I did to. lol Can't worry about the small sh#t got to get on with life.

[steveOtoo]

Now now, if you're suggesting DU has a heart or some sort of soft spot i think we'll have to move this thread into the rumor section.lol

Sorry for the 11th hijack.lmfaoI found dishusers heart at walmart on aisle 27 which is the automotive section......12th hijack

[fifties]

And look at ya' now....

You got a shot of whiskey, a heart,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGU_4-5RaxU

[jeldf]

Hijack 13....is that unlucky?

[struckrk]

So you are saying you had many posts as we all did prior to the pruning....you got a letter and paid. So everyone else should just pay? Many posts would make you more than a junior member if you pm'd the admins.
Hey, I agree, pay them the money.

Geez,I feel like I am being cross examined, I had hundreds of posts under the same screen name but started back at 0,I paid the money,everybody else can do what they want,I just suggest not to ignore the letter,take some sort of action because it will not go away.

[jeldf]

Geez,I feel like I am being cross examined, I had hundreds of posts under the same screen name but started back at 0,I paid the money,everybody else can do what they want,I just suggest not to ignore the letter,take some sort of action because it will not go away.

Cool!. I totally agree. Pay up! I'm jumping off this train. Glad you are back. Sorry you had to pay your dues but at least there was nothing in the settlement/letter that said for you to stay away from sites like these. Happy posting.

[kimd]

And, you have re-emerged a kinder, gentler, Dish User as the result of this. Good things do happen for a reason!!!! lol
I was at over 10k in posts before last fall
I had to start at #1 just like most

[Gomez]

Typical defenses being i bought the 20 codes but didnt use them or i didnt know what they were for or it was just a donation or lets see someone hacked my paypal account or whatever stupid excuse me and alot of other people on here tried to come up with to get out of this. You know what worked for me,paying the $3500

Yep, it worked for me too. :(

[kboom]

Anyone have an idea how many codes wuf sold? Just curious how much DN is getting.

[jeldf]

And, you have re-emerged a kinder, gentler, Dish User as the result of this. Good things do happen for a reason!!!! lol

You are right! I think this new DU is a poser lol......he's just not the same. hijack14

[cheff]

[QUOTE=kboom;949877]Anyone have an idea how many codes wuf sold? Just curious how much DN is getting

If 100 letters went out @ $3500.00 thats $3,500,000.00 . Looks like they win.:jawdrop: I'm pretty sure they have more than that.

[1boxman]

[QUOTE=kboom;949877]Anyone have an idea how many codes wuf sold? Just curious how much DN is getting

If 100 letters went out @ $3500.00 thats $3,500,000.00 . Looks like they win.:jawdrop: I'm pretty sure they have more than that.

It would be 350,000.oo ............ But 1000 letters will get you that ;)

[fifties]

Originally Posted by dishuser
I was at over 10k in posts before last fall
I had to start at #1 just like most
And, you have re-emerged a kinder, gentler, Dish User as the result of this.
You gotta be sh**tin' me! :tehe:

[jeldf]

Hijack 15 lol

[viejox11]

OK,I talked to my lawyer, going to sent a proposal to negotiate the amount for a lower sum.Lets see.

[fifties]

OK,I talked to my lawyer, going to sent a proposal to negotiate the amount for a lower sum.Lets see.
Don't hold your breathe; they are not about to set a precedent...

[sodusme]

OK,I talked to my lawyer, going to sent a proposal to negotiate the amount for a lower sum.Lets see.

Finally a lawyer with some balls.


Don't hold your breathe; they are not about to set a precedent...

I don't know....I see wriggle room to negotiate. Especially when they are alleging that you 'USED' equipment to circumvent DN/Nags signal by citing that one particular clause of the DMCA in the demand letter they sent. To me that would be grounds to negotiate for the simple fact that that paragraph and sub-paragraph can't be proven here. What can be proven is that the defendants trafficked in equipment that was primarily used for one reason and one reason alone i.e. the codes. I would even go so far as to say its grounds for dismissal of the entire case.

Good luck viejox11

[kenkell1]

OK,I talked to my lawyer, going to sent a proposal to negotiate the amount for a lower sum.Lets see.

So if you get the sum lowered to $2000 and pay the lawyer an average of $1500.....did you really gain anything?
Now if the $3500 is dropped then you might have something to be happy about :)

[kboom]

OK,I talked to my lawyer, going to sent a proposal to negotiate the amount for a lower sum.Lets see.

Hope it works for you. When you get the answer let us know the total cost for all. Thanks

[harescrambleracer]

Typical defenses being i bought the 20 codes but didnt use them or i didnt know what they were for or it was just a donation or lets see someone hacked my paypal account or whatever stupid excuse me and alot of other people on here tried to come up with to get out of this. You know what worked for me,paying the $3500
You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..

[dishuser]

You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..now that's funny...lol

[hondoharry]

I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..

How DARE you post in this thread with ONLY 15 posts showing in your stats? ;-)

[kboom]

You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..

Would love to see you and one of your lawyers with balls in court. If you don't answer the letter and they file a judgment against you it can remain for 10 years and if you live in Delaware it's good for 20 years. They can also be reinstated before the time runs out so essentially your on the hook until you pay or file bankruptcy.

Not really a funny matter for the ones that got screwed by Wuf. But lessons learned for all. lol

[torpainter]

Would love to see you and one of your lawyers with balls in court. If you don't answer the letter and they file a judgment against you it can remain for 10 years and if you live in Delaware it's good for 20 years. They can also be reinstated before the time runs out so essentially your on the hook until you pay or file bankruptcy.

Not really a funny matter for the ones that got screwed by Wuf. But lessons learned for all. lol

Its not just wuf anymore

[skyview]

Its not just wuf anymore

so someone got a letter from a diff re seller ?

[alvirgieca]

torpainter do u know somebody else that got the letter who is not from wuf.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..


Never ever heard of that, that some plaintiff paid a defendant who never went to court for his time.



GS2

[rainman2]

You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..

Alright let's stop the BS. Identity theft yea right the judge will believe that one. Let's see they stole my pp acct, also got my address
and also got my ip address and all the other stuff that D**h has on you. They are gonna give w****n 300 yrs for how many identity thefts? Sorry that will not fly in this case. You can only cry wolf so many times then nobody will believe your story n'or the other hundreds if not thousands cry the same story.I may have been born at night but not last night.

[struckrk]

You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..

Not buying that.

[Gomez]

You guys need to get some lawyers with balls,, My friend beat his easily. Didn't even go to court and they had to pay him for his time in the matter.. Identity theft is a really big problem in the USA and it's almost impossible for them to prove it didn't happen to you.. My identity got stolen a few years back and i still have problems with someone opening bank accounts, credit, emails accounts, paypal accounts ect... It happens to people everyday.. I was hesitant to post this on here because of all the feedback on the matter..

Until you get the letter yourself...STFU.

[sodusme]

It would actually be very easy to prove or disprove an identity theft claim. Think about it all they would need is your big three credit bureau reports. Hell even a landlord can get access to those so its not difficult. If it didn't show anything 'suspicious' than that shoots that claim down.

[1boxman]

For it to work...emails do get hacked...ip's are not a person ..per say ..credit cards all so plus am sure PayPal get some .. and if there is no isp logs or server logs for direct connection .

In D.A ..cases I would say no ..

Possible ...or pink elephants in a hail storm .

[sodusme]

For it to work...emails do get hacked...ip's are not a person ..per say ..credit cards all so plus am sure PayPal get some .. and if there is no isp logs or server logs for direct connection .

In D.A ..cases I would say no ..

Possible ...or pink elephants in a hail storm .

Hacked email....yes. i.p.'s do not equate to a person....yes. Credit cards stolen....yes. Paypal stolen or hijacked....yes. But put all those together, happening to one single person and that's quite a stretch to believe.

I still say the best defense is to argue that the DMCA law sub-paragraph being pointed to in the demand letter cannot be proven in this case. If they had went with any of the other sub-paragraphs it would be a moot point.

You can't accuse someone of intent to distribute marijuana when you catch them with a single joint. Just like in this case you can't accuse someone of 'actual' theft of service when all you have are some codes that may or may not facilitate the theft of service. And yes I know, I know they have so much more....but they don't really. They just think they do. It looks good on paper but it really doesn't mean sh*t.

[tilly]

This is a good read to see how it works in the real world from a Fed site.....no Made for TV courtroom.
If you go thru and read the steps and proceedures you will see there are many reasons most of the cases don't end up in actual court room. This stuff it pretty much sorted out well in advance. I in no way say the plantiff has the upper hand even if they seem to have there ducks in a better row, there is the arbitration and reasonable limits which may end up much less than ask for by the plaintiff.

This is a link...I hope it isn't what is considered a live link. If it is maybe someone can correct it so it can still be used or found.


http://www.fjc.gov/federal/courts.nsf/autoframe?OpenForm&nav=menu4a&page=/federal/courts.nsf/page/203?opendocument


I enjoyed the read, hope others may also.

[Grave Digger]

im not really taking either side on this, nor do i really care too much,

however i think ignoring the letter is the worst option a person could choose, its not going to go away if you stick your head in the sand, it will only get worse, you need to man up and face this and sooner is better than later,

i would not recommend contacting them yourself, get a lawyer to try to negotiate the fee, i think thats the best option, however its just my opinion,

i dont know too much about court and laws so im just brainstorming here,

but,

could a defendant in one of these cases ask the plaintiff to PROVE that the code actually worked for satellite theft?....if you could ask that, i dont think they would be able to prove that the code works, or if the code EVER did work

[rainman2]

I think w****n had all codes and passwords, so all they had to do was test it on any one of the receivers that they probably confiscated from him and ran with it and voila wide open. At least that's what I'm thinking. Correct me it this does not make sense.

[Recove52]

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[sodusme]

Personally I think a better defense is could they prove that you used the code? You have to 'read between the lines' on that demand letter and they are actually stipulating that you used the code, not that the code ever worked or didn't work. To me that is the angle I would pursue. Who cares if the code could have, should have, or would have worked....the real issue at hand is did I use the code. Same line of defense for burglary tools. So you got a ski mask and leather gloves and a screwdriver in your trunk....can those be used for criminal activity....sure they can. But can they prove that you actually used them for that?

Don't get caught up in their circular maze of idiocy guys. By fighting the defense of did these work or can you make them work you are feeding right into their hands. You need to make them prove that you actually used these codes for nefarious purposes. I'll say it again for the 102nd time: Receiving some codes through Paypal does not a pirate make. Its a long stretch to what they are trying to prove here boys.

[kboom]

Sod everything you say sounds good but it is also based on Speculation. You don't have any idea what information the other side has other than what is in the letter. Chances most aren't willing to take at this point. It would be like lining 10 women up and trying pick the virgin. lol. That is my take on it.

[sodusme]

Sod everything you say sounds good but it is also based on Speculation. You don't have any idea what information the other side has other than what is in the letter. Chances most aren't willing to take at this point. It would be like lining 10 women up and trying pick the virgin. lol. That is my take on it.

Well the only thing they could really have that proves you used the code is server logs and I think we are pretty certain at this point that they don't have those.

The way I see it if you argue could it have worked, should it have worked or would it have worked you are admitting to potentially having used the code. That is why I say the defense should be did I use the code. You need to argue the point at hand....and unfortunately....that point they are making is that you used the code. Or at least they are trying to make that point. Like I've said this all looks good on paper but most of what they have I could easily get. Domain name for NFPS (gotten on almost any fta forum), i.p. address of server (gotten on almost any fta forum), ports for server (gotten on almost any fta forum), DES key (gotten on almost any fta forum), hell they even go so far in the letter as to say 'your' DES key....implying its unique....when its not. Everyone used the same DES key for Chr!sts sake but these guys say 'your' DES key?

[hondoharry]

Well the only thing they could really have that proves you used the code is server logs and I think we are pretty certain at this point that they don't have those.

Aren't you forgetting about ISP logs. No problem getting those.

[Grave Digger]

You don't have any idea what information the other side has other than what is in the letter. Chances most aren't willing to take at this point.

i would think they have ALOT more evidence on these people than what is revealed in the letter, the letter is only the tip of the iceberg, why would they reveal, and show you their entire hand before going to court? that wouldnt make any sense

[hondoharry]

i would think they have ALOT more evidence on these people than what is revealed in the letter, the letter is only the tip of the iceberg, why would they reveal, and show you their entire hand before going to court? that wouldnt make any sense

Quite the opposite. The more they reveal, the more they scare you into paying the extortion thus saving all the time in court and trying to collect afterwards.

[kboom]

Anyone volunteer for the test case??