enduser wufman declaration

[torpainter]

wufman declaration

[Mr Hanky]

Is that a moderator I see on the list there tor.

[mechanicman]

Damn he really gave them everything....
wufman declaration

[Anubis]

Hmm based on the time frame for selling, we can expect to see a bunch more letters I think.

[kenkell1]

Damn he really gave them everything....

that's because he is a piece of garbage rat!!!!

[whiteheather]

Wow. I am astounded. And yet this site was there for him when we thought he had died,,,,us old timers will remember,,,who needs friends when we have wufman....I will refrain from further comments at this time....I am disgusted......

[kenkell1]

Wow. I am astounded. And yet this site was there for him when we thought he had died,,,,us old timers will remember,,,who needs friends when we have wufman....I will refrain from further comments at this time....I am disgusted......

X2..................

[darlinkat]

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t404/diana123413/sorry%20for%20loss/crying-1.jpg (http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/diana123413/media/sorry%20for%20loss/crying-1.jpg.html)


Yes very sad
Betrayal of trust that we had for wuf

[Just_angel]

Nothing like reading total betrayal

disgusted....................... wuf rat !!!

[darlinkat]

Nothing like reading total betrayal

disgusted....................... wuf rat !!!

Yes angel...we knew we had been betrayed
This document is the nasty reality of it all !!

[dodo67]

Yes angel...we knew we had been betrayed
This document is the nasty reality of it all !!

And I bet he's back on here with different nick ready to screw the forum again.

[ChillyWilly]

Two quick observations;
1) This declaration is very well organized and very coherent. I would speculate that it was written by one of the Hagen lawyers based upon depositions given by Dixon, then signed by Dixon........
2) Anyone who believes, that someone they only know by a nic on some form, is their friend, buddy, cohort, etc........is an idiot

[homedoc1944]

:beatin_horse:

[thunder bird]

Just go to satscams, enough to make me puke.

[Anubis]

Just go to satscams, enough to make me puke.

Kindly leave the forums before puking. Our vips have enough clean ups on their plates not to mention stocking the fridges.:tehe:

[thunder bird]

10-4 no clean up required, just a dry heav.:rolleyes:

[lobsterpot]

that's because he is a piece of garbage rat!!!!

he is a bigger rat than my exwife. he deservers ............

[bigbadbrother]

wufman=xxxxxxxxx . I hope he does time in the pen with babba.

[jazzman21]

And I bet he's back on here with different nick ready to screw the forum again.

I would bet my house he is!!

[hondoharry]

I guess we'll never know if he went to them voluntarily and wrote this himself or it was all done under duress from the man. Legally, statements made under duress are sometimes inadmissible. Guess not in this case.

[surfinisfun]

Kind of odd, i seem to recall someone (noof) posting about saying that he posted earlier it may not be a great idea for a site to have staff that is a reseller, now its seems to be gone.

Truth hurts some times, take it and move on.I said a similar thing, no ban threat but oh boy.....mods/admin didn't and don't like that.

I'm assuming this post will go away, if not, good.

Let some people vent, the site and members will learn.....no need to edit everything.

[torpainter]

Kind of odd, i seem to recall someone (noof) posting about saying that he posted earlier it may not be a great idea for a site to have staff that is a reseller, now its seems to be gone.

Truth hurts some times, take it and move on.I said a similar thing, no ban threat but oh boy.....mods/admin didn't and don't like that.

I'm assuming this post will go away, if not, good.

Let some people vent, the site and members will learn.....no need to edit everything.

there are better places to air their grievances with staff than the public forum

[torpainter]

On a further note of all the sites mentioned that he was a moderator at very few allow any discussion.

[surfinisfun]

On a further note of all the sites mentioned that he was a moderator at very few allow any discussion.

No doubt you are correct with that.

All i'm saying is, in this case it would be nice to loosen the delete and edit functions a bit.

[torpainter]

No doubt you are correct with that.

All i'm saying is, in this case it would be nice to loosen the delete and edit functions a bit.

I moved one post to another area of the site Thanks for the input though

[bluepenguin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDTRyjMnDOk


Filthy Rat

[ChillyWilly]

Kind of odd, i seem to recall someone (noof) posting about saying that he posted earlier it may not be a great idea for a site to have staff that is a reseller, now its seems to be gone.

Truth hurts some times, take it and move on.I said a similar thing, no ban threat but oh boy.....mods/admin didn't and don't like that.

I'm assuming this post will go away, if not, good.

Let some people vent, the site and members will learn.....no need to edit everything.


That point was made a year ago by various people at various sites......some posts were deleted, some were not. I think everyone now understands why this was not a smooth move.........

[Grave Digger]

stop blaming the seller, you all knew what you were doing was against the law, its the buyers fault, not the seller

[Just_angel]

stop blaming the seller, you all knew what you were doing was against the law, its the buyers fault, not the seller

yes but he knew what he was doing was against the law also....he should done something to protect the people that got codes from him...... so yeah l blame him for being a RAT and nothing anyone says will change my mind on that

it all comes down to greed and the desire to save his own ass !!!!

[Grave Digger]

it all comes down to greed and the desire to save his own ass !!!!

you would do the same damn thing if you were in his position and you know it!

[surfinisfun]

you would do the same damn thing if you were in his position and you know it!

The difference here goof ball is she's not stupid enough to do it in the first place.

[Just_angel]

you would do the same damn thing if you were in his position and you know it!

like you would know what l would do !!!

[Just_angel]

The difference here goof ball is she's not stupid enough to do it in the first place.

You got that right !!

[sodusme]

If he was "the biggest reseller" as his cry on my shoulder letter says then he should have been using some type of encryption or throw away device to keep his "records" on. Only an idiot keeps incriminating records like that out in the open unsecured. So to Grave Digger yeah most of us wouldn't have done "the same damn thing" 'cause most of us would be smart enough to use some type of encryption for the records we would keep. And before you go there YES there is encryption that even the FBI can't break.

[ChillyWilly]

It was stupidity on the part of everyone.......it's a paypal paper trail, that's all they really needed.......

[Stile 88]

If he was "the biggest reseller" as his cry on my shoulder letter says then he should have been using some type of encryption or throw away device to keep his "records" on. Only an idiot keeps incriminating records like that out in the open unsecured. So to Grave Digger yeah most of us wouldn't have done "the same damn thing" 'cause most of us would be smart enough to use some type of encryption for the records we would keep. And before you go there YES there is encryption that even the FBI can't break.


makes no sense to me to store all info on his computer with no security like you said only an idiot would do that ...


what is that device called sod lol

[sodusme]

makes no sense to me to store all info on his computer with no security like you said only an idiot would do that ...


what is that device called sod lol

PGP, TrueCrypt and Bitlocker are supposedly undefeated and uncracked. There is only one known defeat and it involves retrieving memory dumps from the target computer. But those memory dumps are only produced under specific criteria. Basically someone would have to have physical access to the target machine and it would have to be in "hibernation".

[stilled]

It was stupidity on the part of everyone.......it's a paypal paper trail, that's all they really needed.......

Its user error, that lead em down the road where they find themselves at,

First a seller, then comes along the buyer, both with a weak constitution,

That being said, I wish most well, cept the rat xxxxx wufman, hope you get what is coming to you soon, should have stood tall, if you cant, should have never gotten in the game in the first place, or been at the very least, just a bit smarter, all those around you are falling, no matter what deal you made, hope it was worth it,

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

If he was "the biggest reseller" as his cry on my shoulder letter says then he should have been using some type of encryption or throw away device to keep his "records" on. Only an idiot keeps incriminating records like that out in the open unsecured. So to Grave Digger yeah most of us wouldn't have done "the same damn thing" 'cause most of us would be smart enough to use some type of encryption for the records we would keep. And before you go there YES there is encryption that even the FBI can't break.


Some federal courts have ordered defendants to decrypt their encrypted contents with their password while other courts have said it violates your fifth amendment rights.


This issue could very well end up in the US supreme court for final ruling.



GS2

[Nostradamus]

the whole thing is ridiculous from the get go. I read the whole thing and even though it has Wuf's signature on the bottom I can guarantee you it was written by DN lawyers and just put his name on it. now I am not saying that isn't what happened but I am betting it is worded very precisely just the same.

next there is the issue of him ratting people out. did he? granted he was careless with his records but are any of the other resellers any better? nobody really knows! a knock comes to the door and there is a lawyer, Dn rep and a couple of cops with a subpoena and a search warrant. at that point they had control of everything and his hands are tied. two choices in court, say nothing or tell the truth. might as well be honest because all the info in there on the hard drives and other records anyway and they already have that.

now you have people getting letters and blaming wufman for that. I am not 100% positive on this but I am quite sure he never forced anyone to buy a code under duress. people lined up to buy the codes so anybody getting letters you knew the risks going in and the fact you are on the hook is really nobody elses fault but your own.

the ironic part of all this. if wuf showed up right now and said sorry folks but it is all water under the bridge and said he had codes for sale there would be boneheads Pming him right away. now, how sad is that?

[Nostradamus]

just a little more info for people to think about. hardly a week goes by you don't see somebody posting something to the effect of new server PM for info. the best part is the poster with the server has like 5 to 10 posts. nobody knows who he is and yet people are falling all over themselves trying to contact the mystery man and send him their money and info. the bottom line is nobody knows how much longer this iks thing will continue but if people do not smarten up they will still be filing into court long after the servers are a fond memory. JEEZ PEOPLE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE FOR ONCE!

[Bonzo]

I am no computer wiz but if not mistaken I think some guys got busted in Canada with the pgp(don't quote me on it but I remember something like that).
Anyhow cannot believe how deep this **** is getting.
All the freakin sights he was associated with (which we probably all been on) and all the familiar names etc etc.
Just WoW.

[ChillyWilly]

Well, even though we are just getting to see wuf's declaration, this just is basically old news.

Maybe people should be looking forward? As in now that WU is no longer an option, how safe is 95epay or any other fund handler? Although they are in China, there still is a paper trail to your Visa card. I've seen people talk about using various Visa vanilla cards, gift cards, etc. but it appears they all require online registration with your real info including a SS number. I read all card issuers are now required by law to do this under the Patriot Act.

Some believe that the transactions will be safe because they are stored in China.........IMHO if the Chinese were negotiating some new trade deal with the USA, and the USA asked for records just to verify how much money individuals were spending with China, the Chinese would have no problem giving it up.......

[Grave Digger]

If he was "the biggest reseller" as his cry on my shoulder letter says then he should have been using some type of encryption or throw away device to keep his "records" on. Only an idiot keeps incriminating records like that out in the open unsecured. So to Grave Digger yeah most of us wouldn't have done "the same damn thing" 'cause most of us would be smart enough to use some type of encryption for the records we would keep. And before you go there YES there is encryption that even the FBI can't break.

yeah sure.....jails all over the entire world are full of people who thought they were smarter than the FBI

[ChillyWilly]

makes no sense to me to store all info on his computer with no security like you said only an idiot would do that ...


what is that device called sod lol


do we even know that? maybe he had secure off site storage? but voluntarily gave it all up as a bargaining chip......

[Grave Digger]

soon to come....

VGiddy and GMan declarations, and a whole new flood of letters, which will no doubt include canadians this time seeing as they were in canada.....anybody dumb enough to buy from these two with thier real paypal info?.....put your hand up, congratulations, you have just received a hefty fine for your stupidity!

[jazzman21]

stop blaming the seller, you all knew what you were doing was against the law, its the buyers fault, not the seller

Oooh boy, here we go!!!!

[torpainter]

soon to come....

VGiddy and GMan declarations, and a whole new flood of letters, which will no doubt include canadians this time seeing as they were in canada.....anybody dumb enough to buy from these two with thier real paypal info?.....put your hand up, congratulations, you have just received a hefty fine for your stupidity!
As far as I know they dont do civil proceeding in Canada
They use the criminal courts

[Grave Digger]

As far as I know they dont do civil proceeding in Canada
They use the criminal courts

and you don't think this could be a criminal case?

of course it can, the penalties in canada for this type of thing are more severe than in the states

[torpainter]

and you don't think this could be a criminal case?

of course it can, the penalties in canada for this type of thing are more severe than in the states

For sure they go after the servers but will they spend the resources to go after end users?
who knows?

[hondoharry]

will they spend the resources to go after end users?
who knows?

Don't take much resources to send out extortion letters.

[Grave Digger]

For sure they go after the servers but will they spend the resources to go after end users?
who knows?

they already have.....why would they change their approach?

[torpainter]

Have letters ever been used in Canada? I dont think they can go that route

[torpainter]

they already have.....why would they change their approach?

already have? when?

[Grave Digger]

Have letters ever been used in Canada? I dont think they can go that route

a long time ago now, but extortion letters have been sent to canadians in two other "provider" cases that i know of, one being a US provider, one being a canadian provider

[kijiji]

I'm with tor and i have never heard this happening !! thats not to say they can't piracy in the usa is taken much more seriously then in canada !

[DualTest]

Is he saying he was a mod at all of those sites listed in the pdf? I find that hard to believe. Some listed weren't even in North America. Some others are notorious pay per file scam sites. And others I don't ever recall seeing those nicks listed.

[jvvh5897]

I would think that everyone knows that IKS is a risky way to steal provider's signals. A long time ago when NA was starting to go toward IKS systems, I posted that folks should keep it small, keep it local, and keep it off the web as much as possible. If you don't know the guy giving you service, you don't know what will happen. If you don't know how it is being done, you should not be doing it.

As for wuf giving it up, I understand why that would happen and I'm not all that mad. I think anyone would do the same. Why protect the interests of folks who's moral values allow stealing? And why be surprised that he was caught, it would not be hard to track down someone so open about it.

[ChillyWilly]

soon to come....

VGiddy and GMan declarations, and a whole new flood of letters, which will no doubt include canadians this time seeing as they were in canada.....anybody dumb enough to buy from these two with thier real paypal info?.....put your hand up, congratulations, you have just received a hefty fine for your stupidity!


As far as I know they dont do civil proceeding in Canada
They use the criminal courts


Just read the Gman filing.....appears to be an Anton Pillar warrant (civil)

[sodusme]

yeah sure.....jails all over the entire world are full of people who thought they were smarter than the FBI

Oh so you have an instance of the FBI cracking PGP, TrueCrypt or Bitlocker? Or is that just your opinion?

I guess the jails aren't full of people as smart as I am then is what you are saying?

:laughat:
http://techie-buzz.com/foss/fbi-fail-decrypt-hard-drive-truecrypt.html

You might give that a look see and than post back....

[bigbadbrother]

another thread that will turn in to a you trash me I trash you thread , this should be closed.

[Anubis]

another thread that will turn in to a you trash me I trash you thread , this should be closed.

Things are ok for now and most know how to behave here.
We'll leave it for now unless sod decides to bring in a expert witness from the FBI.;)

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

As far as I know they dont do civil proceeding in Canada
They use the criminal courts


End users in Canada have not been pursued criminally or civilly but you can't rule that from ever happening for civil anyway.


It would be more unlikely to happen criminally my opinion only.



GS2

[BanHammer]

another thread that will turn in to a you trash me I trash you thread , this should be closed.

just be thankful they're not talking about politics. what a ****in' doozy that is over at another site, everyone bashing each other for their personal beliefs.

[willydilly]

#1 (and most importantly) It is ILLEGAL to have DN in Canada. #2 Even IF a Canadian purchased a code from one of these individuals, that doesn't mean that they actually USE/USED the code. It could have been a gift for someone else. #3 Do you really think that this is going to become a cross border collaboration between the FBI and the RCMP to catch a few end users? #4 Don't worry, be happy.

wd

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

No the criminal penalties for this in Canada are less severe. No one has ever been even sentence to jail for Sat violation, only sentence to jail for being in contempt of court. In Civil end users if...

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Have letters ever been used in Canada? I dont think they can go that route


Once by Bev but they never followed through with filling lawsuits.



GS2

[sodusme]

Wait a minute weren't you the one reprimanded earlier in this thread for distasteful language? <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
I just detest when people shoot from the cuff and they have no idea what they are talking about....

[Anubis]

Wait a minute weren't you the one reprimanded earlier in this thread for distasteful language?



I just detest when people shoot from the cuff and they have no idea what they are talking about. Classic example is someone spouting off about how jails are full of people that thought that they were smarter than the FBI. Well if that is the case and you have proof of TrueCrypt, PGP or Bitlocker being broken than show me proof of it. ;)

Otherwise its just another poster trying to start an argument for no good reason. I don't post on these sites just to read my posts. Just about everything I post I can back up and if another poster wants to "refute" what I have to say about something than they need to be able to back it up if I call them on it. Its just the way I operate.



Which brings up something I been wondering about: So if you pirate DN's signal in Canada as an end user you are "for the most part" untouchable at least that has been the norm as of late. Which begs the question if you pirate Bev in the states are you also untouchable? Or will DN go after you here in the states? I would have to think they wouldn't just as Bev won't go after DN's pirates in Canada?

Yup I know.;)

[ChillyWilly]

Wait a minute weren't you the one reprimanded earlier in this thread for distasteful language?



I just detest when people shoot from the cuff and they have no idea what they are talking about. Classic example is someone spouting off about how jails are full of people that thought that they were smarter than the FBI. Well if that is the case and you have proof of TrueCrypt, PGP or Bitlocker being broken than show me proof of it. ;)

Otherwise its just another poster trying to start an argument for no good reason. I don't post on these sites just to read my posts. Just about everything I post I can back up and if another poster wants to "refute" what I have to say about something than they need to be able to back it up if I call them on it. Its just the way I operate.



Which brings up something I been wondering about: So if you pirate DN's signal in Canada as an end user you are "for the most part" untouchable at least that has been the norm as of late. Which begs the question if you pirate Bev in the states are you also untouchable? Or will DN go after you here in the states? I would have to think they wouldn't just as Bev won't go after DN's pirates in Canada?


If memory serves Dark Angel was tried in Buffalo, NY...although he operated his server in Montreal

I guess extradition is always a possibility if you piss them off enough....

[sodusme]

If memory serves Dark Angel was tried in Buffalo, NY...although he operated his server in Montreal

I guess extradition is always a possibility if you piss them off enough....

Yeah but he wasn't an end user right? You mean when he was operating his server? I mean strictly concerning an end user that might be pirating say Bev's signal here in the states?

[ChillyWilly]

Most of the laws I've read on utility theft, going back 40 years, are very open-ended. They use phrases like &quot;any person who knowingly receives services free of charge that a reasonable person would...

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Wait a minute weren't you the one reprimanded earlier in this thread for distasteful language?



I just detest when people shoot from the cuff and they have no idea what they are talking about. Classic example is someone spouting off about how jails are full of people that thought that they were smarter than the FBI. Well if that is the case and you have proof of TrueCrypt, PGP or Bitlocker being broken than show me proof of it. ;)

Otherwise its just another poster trying to start an argument for no good reason. I don't post on these sites just to read my posts. Just about everything I post I can back up and if another poster wants to "refute" what I have to say about something than they need to be able to back it up if I call them on it. Its just the way I operate.



Which brings up something I been wondering about: So if you pirate DN's signal in Canada as an end user you are "for the most part" untouchable at least that has been the norm as of late. Which begs the question if you pirate Bev in the states are you also untouchable? Or will DN go after you here in the states? I would have to think they wouldn't just as Bev won't go after DN's pirates in Canada?



Most likely a Canadian lawsuit would be from Bev and Nag while US is DN and Nag.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

If memory serves Dark Angel was tried in Buffalo, NY...although he operated his server in Montreal

I guess extradition is always a possibility if you piss them off enough....


DA was sued in Canada as he is from Canada. They were hit with an Anton Pillar Order. Have no idea where the server was located.


From that lawsuit they obtained information on end users that they pursued with letters & litigation on end users in the US only.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Oh so you have an instance of the FBI cracking PGP, TrueCrypt or Bitlocker? Or is that just your opinion?

I guess the jails aren't full of people as smart as I am then is what you are saying?

:laughat:
http://techie-buzz.com/foss/fbi-fail-decrypt-hard-drive-truecrypt.html

You might give that a look see and than post back....



In Canada if your hit with an Anton Pillar order it will order you to hand over passwords to decrypt any evidence that the plaintiffs might not have access to.


You can see that in the G-man file in paragraph 23 & 32(a)



GS2

[sodusme]

DA was sued in Canada as he is from Canada. They were hit with an Anton Pillar Order. Have no idea where the server was located.


From that lawsuit they obtained information on end users that they pursued with letters & litigation on end users in the US only.



GS2

One was in Canada the other in Panama:


http://www.dark-angel.ca country code for Canada


http://www.darkangel.com.pa country code for Panama

[sodusme]

So what if you decide not to? LOL <br />
<br />
I mean whats the worst they can do? Charge you with more? Who's to say you can even remember the password? I'm sure we all have forgotten passwords. Whats to say...

[dishuser]

put you in jail for contempt <br />
and if you get 4 months you do the 4 months <br />
then they ask you again

[surfinisfun]

put you in jail for contempt
and if you get 4 months you do the 4 months
then they ask you again

Correct, with an Anton Pillar if they believe you are withholding evidence.....you go to jail.

Ask SS

[sodusme]

Doesn't anyone in Canada know how to lie? LOL

Gotta put your poker face on man. :cool:

[snafued38]

as you can see we have a aahhhem......vermin problem north of the border also, look if you play with fire you get burnt this has been going on for how many years now? lol

[surfinisfun]

Doesn't anyone in Canada know how to lie? LOL

Gotta put your poker face on man. :cool:

lol. Thats all we do my friend.

We say we're friends with the states. :tape::tehe:

[BanHammer]

Doesn't anyone in Canada know how to lie? LOL

Gotta put your poker face on man. :cool:
I love paying for pornography!

and I poked her face

[Just_angel]

ok guys lets keep this on track

thanks

[Just_angel]

I love paying for pornography!

and I poked her face

very disrespectful.....enough thanks

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

If you disobey the court order than you'll be facing contempt of court charges and jail time if convicted. Its quite unlikely a court will buy into - I forgot the password. <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
GS2

[Ineedanewusersname]

Anyone follow the latest "Mafia" trial (James "Whitey" Bulger)? Seems if one does wrong, eventually someone will tell the tale. "CYA" dotcom

[kijiji]

very disrespectful.....enough thanks

yeah i'm with yeah there sister.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Doesn't anyone in Canada know how to lie? LOL

Gotta put your poker face on man. :cool:



It really isn't that easy. Its been tried before. Courts are not shy to say they don't believe you or you can get caught in a lie. Example below from court from Super Star contempt of court case.




[73] I find the evidence of Mr. and Ms. Ramkissoon in respect of the whereabouts and fate
of the Acer Laptop to be implausible. They strike me as parties prepared to say anything at all in
an attempt to extricate themselves from the situation they are in. I do not believe them.




GS2

[sodusme]

But that is in regards to an entire missing laptop LOL. Of course they are going to question that. <br />
<br />
Trust me the best way to &quot;hide&quot; something is to do it right out in the open. I can guarantee that...

[BPG]

What a piece of xxxxxxx!! One word Thomas : KARMA!!

BPG~

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

But that is in regards to an entire missing laptop LOL. Of course they are going to question that.

Trust me the best way to "hide" something is to do it right out in the open. I can guarantee that if you had two .XLS files that were on your desktop, one phoney and one real and you changed the extension of the real one to read .JPG there is no way possible for them to know that the extension has been changed on that file. They wouldn't even be looking at a .JPG file. They would be concentrating on an .XLS file. Now you'd have to make damn sure there were no logs left behind when you opened and worked on the real .XLS file but there is no way that I can see to know if a file extension has actually been tampered with or altered. So they click on the phoney one or you give them the password to it and they are happy. Of course it only contains minimal information. The .JPG file that contains the real .XLS file would show up as "corrupt" if it were clicked on. That would lead anyone to make the assumption that its just a corrupted pic file.

You're thinking too hard on this like I said the best way to hide something is right out in the open. ;)


Everything is questioned if they don't get want they want. What you suggest would be question also. They are not stupid. They have dealt with probably hundreds of defendants and with all sorts of attempts to trick, hide, conceive. They have all sorts of experts at their disposal, forensics computer people.


For the past 10 + years people come up with ideas on how to fool but none are successful that I know of. People for the most part are not even prepared because they never know when a seizure is going to take place and think its not even going to happen because it hadn't for x amount of time.




GS2

[aquadave]

Keep in mind when it comes to court unless they fly him in to testify to it's "foundation" at each case it can't be used.

[dishuser]

Keep in mind when it comes to court unless they fly him in to testify to it's "foundation" at each case it can't be used.

he signed a declaration
he's not needed anymore

[niceguy]

thanks for info

[henpecked]

Are any of those codes in "enduser wufman declaration " still active.. as in useable?
Just asking in case you already tried em

j/k






he signed a declaration
he's not needed anymore

[Nostradamus]

Are any of those codes in "enduser wufman declaration " still active.. as in useable?
Just asking in case you already tried em

j/k

tried them? Wouldn't surprise me if that bunch passed them on to a reseller LOL

[aquadave]

he signed a declaration
he's not needed anymore

You can challange it without foundation it can't be brought in unless both parties agree. he has to testify he wrote it. that's what foundation is.

[drparty333]

after all this, there is still resellers...I don't get it...why would anyone buy from a reseller...

[Nostradamus]

You can challange it without foundation it can't be brought in unless both parties agree. he has to testify he wrote it. that's what foundation is.

I dare say a declaration is considered testimony if it has been notarized and I dare say that has been. If it could not be considered testimony as it is what purpose would it serve to begin with? They certainly would not have to drag his butt all around the country but a quick phone call to the courthouse where the paper work has been signed and stored would confirm it was his statement

[nobody]

Liars / thieves / rats N finks ...... Are all same to me ........To be continued ;D ;D ;D

[surfinisfun]

Liars / thieves / rats N finks ...... Are all same to me ........To be continued ;D ;D ;D

Yup, and your point?

You're still working in that arena, right?

To bad you can't close threads here, seems like you enjoy that.

[JCO]

Lets keep this on topic and not discuss other sites business here please..

[surfinisfun]

Lets keep this on topic and not discuss other sites business here please..

No problem with that JCO,

It would be nice if gimps wouldn't bump a thread after 4 days with nothing of value to add though.

[nobody]

Yup, and your point?

You're still working in that arena, right?

To bad you can't close threads here, seems like you enjoy that.

Not sure who you are , but your post is very childish .....

[Recove52]

With 36 FTA Sites in his declaration ,seems more than likely that Thomas Dixon was more a mole than a Rat,Ergo Exhibit 1,Exhibit 2,Etc,Etc..wonder how many codes charlie bought from Lenard thru Tom,Hmmmnn

[NoName]

I just see some people posting that wuf's customers deserved what they got and they were stupid blah blah blah. Easy to say if you didn't get the letter. And I want to be clear I have never affiliated with Wuf in any way.

My point is this. For those who utilize iks services, if you get caught its bad right. And you knew the risks going in. Right. And if you can't take the punishment don't play the game. Right. I get all that and agree.

But there "should" be some type of honor with the sellers of these codes. If they can take your money and make a profit off your sales and then they get busted, it seems filthy to take you down with them so as to lighten their penalties. But at the end of the day most people on these forums don't know each other personally so you can't really expect them to do otherwise.......I get that too.

But my main point is this....... if you are going to sell the codes, you should at least do the best you can to protect people before being busted.
I don't understand the need for the record keeping on sellers parts. If buyers lose their stuff, oh will tough for them.

So I don't believe wuf's customers are stupid and deserve what they got. They can learn from this and either do things smarter or get the hell out the game.

What about the people who like to test EVERYTHING out there. And who bought codes from him, v.g. and etc. They are going to get it more than once. What about the folks who bought a code from him for nfps and rocket. They could possibly get it for each particular server they were members of.

This iks thing is a very dangerous thing. When it first came around widespread, 2006 with folks like Neosat leading the way, most people were concerned with the whole ip tracking of things. Now, as I have always said, it is more so about the pos.

For the people that got the letter, I feel for you. I dont like the idea of people having to pay "the man".

Hopefully people can stop kicking people while they are down and offer some advice and support without the hazing.

My 2 cents. Pay the letter, and do things smarter or get out of the game.

[Anubis]

I just see some people posting that wuf's customers deserved what they got and they were stupid blah blah blah. Easy to say if you didn't get the letter. And I want to be clear I have never affiliated with Wuf in any way.

My point is this. For those who utilize iks services, if you get caught its bad right. And you knew the risks going in. Right. And if you can't take the punishment don't play the game. Right. I get all that and agree.

But there "should" be some type of honor with the sellers of these codes. If they can take your money and make a profit off your sales and then they get busted, it seems filthy to take you down with them so as to lighten their penalties. But at the end of the day most people on these forums don't know each other personally so you can't really expect them to do otherwise.......I get that too.

But my main point is this....... if you are going to sell the codes, you should at least do the best you can to protect people before being busted.
I don't understand the need for the record keeping on sellers parts. If buyers lose their stuff, oh will tough for them.

So I don't believe wuf's customers are stupid and deserve what they got. They can learn from this and either do things smarter or get the hell out the game.

What about the people who like to test EVERYTHING out there. And who bought codes from him, v.g. and etc. They are going to get it more than once. What about the folks who bought a code from him for nfps and rocket. They could possibly get it for each particular server they were members of.

This iks thing is a very dangerous thing. When it first came around widespread, 2006 with folks like Neosat leading the way, most people were concerned with the whole ip tracking of things. Now, as I have always said, it is more so about the pos.

For the people that got the letter, I feel for you. I dont like the idea of people having to pay "the man".

Hopefully people can stop kicking people while they are down and offer some advice and support without the hazing.

My 2 cents. Pay the letter, and do things smarter or get out of the game.

Good post but maybe you should follow your own advice and not advertise what boxes and sats you are watching. ;)

[NoName]

Good post but maybe you should follow your own advice and not advertise what boxes and sats you are watching. ;)

Thanks for reading my post and my signature. I will be sure to delete it, its not even accurate anyway lol.

I'm sure many would think listing boxes and sats in a signature is "stupid." Well if that is stupid (I'll take the bait)....what do you think server up down threads are????? lol Or moderators telling sellers of paid iks servers the rules to sell on their forums...lol..or personalized pictures for avatars.lol

[jeldf]

Thanks for reading my post and my signature. I will be sure to delete it, its not even accurate anyway lol.

I'm sure many would think listing boxes and sats in a signature is "stupid." Well if that is stupid (I'll take the bait)....what do you think server up down threads are????? lol Or moderators telling sellers of paid iks servers the rules to sell on their forums...lol..or personalized pictures for avatars.lol

Then you should go to those threads and reply if you are up or down!!! Then go to your F*cebook page and post it there....then Tw*tter it. If you don't think Charlie's boyz are monitoring your Nic.......all the power to you. Good luck.

[NoName]

Then you should go to those threads and reply if you are up or down!!! Then go to your F*cebook page and post it there....then Tw*tter it. If you don't think Charlie's boyz are monitoring your Nic.......all the power to you. Good luck.

I get your failed attempt at hazing but you missed the whole point.

[jeldf]

I get your failed attempt at hazing but you missed the whole point.

I got your point. No haze intended.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

I dare say a declaration is considered testimony if it has been notarized and I dare say that has been. If it could not be considered testimony as it is what purpose would it serve to begin with? They certainly would not have to drag his butt all around the country but a quick phone call to the courthouse where the paper work has been signed and stored would confirm it was his statement


However I do believe the defense could request he be deposed on his declaration and travel to him to have him deposed.



GS2

[sodusme]

I just see some people posting that wuf's customers deserved what they got and they were stupid blah blah blah. Easy to say if you didn't get the letter. And I want to be clear I have never affiliated with Wuf in any way.

My point is this. For those who utilize iks services, if you get caught its bad right. And you knew the risks going in. Right. And if you can't take the punishment don't play the game. Right. I get all that and agree.

But there "should" be some type of honor with the sellers of these codes. If they can take your money and make a profit off your sales and then they get busted, it seems filthy to take you down with them so as to lighten their penalties. But at the end of the day most people on these forums don't know each other personally so you can't really expect them to do otherwise.......I get that too.

But my main point is this....... if you are going to sell the codes, you should at least do the best you can to protect people before being busted.
I don't understand the need for the record keeping on sellers parts. If buyers lose their stuff, oh will tough for them.

So I don't believe wuf's customers are stupid and deserve what they got. They can learn from this and either do things smarter or get the hell out the game.

What about the people who like to test EVERYTHING out there. And who bought codes from him, v.g. and etc. They are going to get it more than once. What about the folks who bought a code from him for nfps and rocket. They could possibly get it for each particular server they were members of.

This iks thing is a very dangerous thing. When it first came around widespread, 2006 with folks like Neosat leading the way, most people were concerned with the whole ip tracking of things. Now, as I have always said, it is more so about the pos.

For the people that got the letter, I feel for you. I dont like the idea of people having to pay "the man".

Hopefully people can stop kicking people while they are down and offer some advice and support without the hazing.

My 2 cents. Pay the letter, and do things smarter or get out of the game.

Excellent post but I think there are too many that have a "vested" interest in keeping the IKS train rolling. I know people like SS and some others who I can't remember posted some ridiculous things on how proxies work and how to keep yourself safe and so forth. Total fabrications but they worked in suckering people in to get more codes sold. People on these forums are sometimes too gullible and that is too bad. I'm not downing anyone but you gotta use your head. You got an i.p. and can that be traced? You bet it can and even people like me have succumbed to being traced and I know what I'm doing. I don't really have anything constructive to add other than to say its not always the end user that is at fault here. Some of the blame rests with greedy box sellers and box spokesmen.

But in closing YEAH very good post indeed.

[ftastudent2]

stop blaming the seller, you all knew what you were doing was against the law, its the buyers fault, not the seller

You got that right. Times they are a changing. Vanilla is good and PM works. Never leave an easy to follow trail. E-mail is a sure gotcha.

[Nostradamus]

However I do believe the defense could request he be deposed on his declaration and travel to him to have him deposed.



GS2

possibly could if you don't mind adding a cpl more grand on to your total bill when you lose. you would be paying for having a subpoena served as well as transportation, meals, and probably hotel costs as well just to have him show up in court. I am not saying it can't be beat but for most people it is not worth the time or effort and DN knows that as well. better off just paying the initial $3500 and forget about it. I guess another way to look at it is, if you got away with stealing program for a year and get the letter you broke even, if more than a year you still come out smelling like a rose :)

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

possibly could if you don't mind adding a cpl more grand on to your total bill when you lose. you would be paying for having a subpoena served as well as transportation, meals, and probably hotel costs as well just to have him show up in court. I am not saying it can't be beat but for most people it is not worth the time or effort and DN knows that as well. better off just paying the initial $3500 and forget about it. I guess another way to look at it is, if you got away with stealing program for a year and get the letter you broke even, if more than a year you still come out smelling like a rose :)


No doubt it would be expensive and a significant risk that you would be pissing money away was just mentioning in general people who submit declarations are open to be deposed on it.



GS2

[waldo]

just a little more info for people to think about. hardly a week goes by you don't see somebody posting something to the effect of new server PM for info. the best part is the poster with the server has like 5 to 10 posts. nobody knows who he is and yet people are falling all over themselves trying to contact the mystery man and send him their money and info. the bottom line is nobody knows how much longer this iks thing will continue but if people do not smarten up they will still be filing into court long after the servers are a fond memory. JEEZ PEOPLE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE FOR ONCE!

least we forget -----the guy--this site -through under the bus when this story broke--poor bastard

[ranger]

Do not know much about this or the Law , however after serving on many Juries , I do know if you make something sound and look good in order to get someone to do something wrong , it's called Entrapment and that's Not Legal !!!!!! Lol

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Do not know much about this or the Law , however after serving on many Juries , I do know if you make something sound and look good in order to get someone to do something wrong , it's called Entrapment and that's Not Legal !!!!!! Lol



There is nothing close to entrapment in these end user cases that could be used as a defense from what I have seen.



GS2

[astaza]

guys will dn send a letter to end users in canada ?
there is np tangible proof that aperson bought the code.one can claim that his paypal account was pirated and used to buy this code.

[ranger]

Do not know much about this or the Law , however after serving on many Juries , I do know if you make something sound and look good in order to get someone to do something wrong , it's called Entrapment and that's Not Legal !!!!!! Lol

If Dish or the Legal Firm has or had anything to do with offering for sale anything that sounds good but not Legal, I think That may be Entrapment and Not Be Legal ....

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

guys will dn send a letter to end users in canada ?
there is np tangible proof that aperson bought the code.one can claim that his paypal account was pirated and used to buy this code.



Extremely unlikely DN would but Bev could although see the chances of that being remote.



GS2

[hondoharry]

Do not know much about this or the Law , however after serving on many Juries , I do know if you make something sound and look good in order to get someone to do something wrong , it's called Entrapment and that's Not Legal !!!!!! Lol

If Dish or the Legal Firm has or had anything to do with offering for sale anything that sounds good but not Legal, I think That may be Entrapment and Not Be Legal ....

You gotta be kidding. They do it all the time - bait cars, bait whores, bait johns, bait drug dealers, bait drug buyers, bait bribes.

[jvvh5897]

Don't forget bait explosive sellers bomb makers and various bait weapon sellers.

[hondoharry]

How about bait P$ sellers?

[chicot60]

How about Peter Sellers.....eh!

[RG6A]

How about Peter Sellers.....eh!

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever hoid !

[Grave Digger]

there is np tangible proof that aperson bought the code.one can claim that his paypal account was pirated and used to buy this code.

yeah good luck with that one,

you are notified immediately about any transaction taking place on your paypal account, did you report the transaction right away after it took place as being fraudulent? did you notify paypal that your account was hacked after the transaction?

i didn't think so.....

[hondoharry]

Some people think they can just lie their way out of things like they did with mommy and daddy.

[Anubis]

Some people think they can just lie their way out of things like they did with mommy and daddy.

Actually some career criminals have the art to a science. :tehe:

[Byte_Me]

Actually some career criminals have the art to a science. :tehe:

Also known as Politicians. But I digress.

[iq180]

Some people think they can just lie their way out of things like they did with mommy and daddy.
Lie is a very harsh word LOL, I think a better word would be bluff.

[hondoharry]

Quote Originally Posted by hondoharry
Some people think they can just lie their way out of things like they did with mommy and daddy.


Lie is a very harsh word LOL, I think a better word would be bluff.

Prisons are full of them - liars, bluffers, fibbers or whatever you want to call them.

[waldo]

Actually some career criminals have the art to a science. :tehe:

GReat--! -------------------point-------!

[railbird]

Hi i was a subscriber to rocket service last year and received a lawsuit from dish network lawyers...is it a scam or real?

[Anubis]

It is very real. What you probably got was a demand letter asking for $3500 or you go to court which you will lose the fight if you do.

[Nostradamus]

Hi i was a subscriber to rocket service last year and received a lawsuit from dish network lawyers...is it a scam or real?

yeah it is real and you are $3500 out of pocket my friend

[railbird]

your lucky i got notified of 5,000.00....I guess there is no way to fight it??

so just send them the money???

[Anubis]

You can fight it if you have a 7 digit bank account and you will still lose.

[railbird]

thanks lesson learned....very expensive...what happens if you dont have the 5k?

[Anubis]

Contact them and try to reduce it and work out some sort of payment plan.

[railbird]

what would I say to try to reduce it??..


thanks for your advice

[Anubis]

Don't know but there are substantial thread you can read about it in this section.

[railbird]

ok thanks again ...so you paid the full fine??

[sodusme]

yeah good luck with that one,

you are notified immediately about any transaction taking place on your paypal account, did you report the transaction right away after it took place as being fraudulent? did you notify paypal that your account was hacked after the transaction?

i didn't think so.....

Notification only comes into the Paypal account its not like it ever hits the bank account unless you don't have money in the Paypal account to cover it and have a bank account linked to it. It would be very easy to miss a transaction on a high volume Paypal account. I have hundreds of transactions going in and out of mine on a monthly basis. I could easily miss one especially if it was for a small amount like these IKS payments are for.

All it would take is for the Paypal user to login one time from a rogue i.p. like a library or McDonalds or hotel WI-FI and you could claim that you were "hacked". The i.p. and cookies are the only basis that Paypal uses to track you. If you log in from a different computer even one time neither of those would be present and you could easily say you were hacked.

[astaza]

guys,
will all those who bought codes from wufman receive a letter from DN,including those in canada?
thnx

[mark64]

depends on a few things but it could really happen to Canadians the other Sat provider went after Canadians

[sodusme]

guys,
will all those who bought codes from wufman receive a letter from DN,including those in canada?
thnx

To my knowledge I don't believe any end user in Canada has been contacted by DN/Nagra.

[Night_Predator]

Orig inally Posted by Nostradamus
I dare say a declaration is considered testimony if it has been notarized and I dare say that has been. If it could not be considered testimony as it is what purpose would it serve to begin with? They certainly would not have to drag his butt all around the country but a quick phone call to the courthouse where the paper work has been signed and stored would confirm it was his statement



Originally Posted by Nostradamus
possibly could if you don't mind adding a cpl more grand on to your total bill when you lose. you would be paying for having a subpoena served as well as transportation, meals, and probably hotel costs as well just to have him show up in court. I am not saying it can't be beat but for most people it is not worth the time or effort and DN knows that as well. better off just paying the initial $3500 and forget about it. I guess another way to look at it is, if you got away with stealing program for a year and get the letter you broke even, if more than a year you still come out smelling like a rose


Are we talking about Canada or the US? I don’t know much about Canadian law but in the US a Declaration is only used in supporting a case and moving it forward through the legal system to trial. It is not used in lue of Testimony but for a very few and narrow reasons which are adjudicated individually on each cases reasons. In every jurisdiction in the US every defendant or Respondent in a civil case has the right to face their accuser and to depose them and any and all evidence enter into trial. In no court is a deposition notarized or not ever presented into evidence for a jury or deciding judge/magistrate to see, other then allowed for in the rules of evidence under very, very narrow conditions. So yes Mr Dixon would have to go and testify in each case that they would want to us his computer and its information. To even enter the information as evidence the prosecutor or plaintiff’s attorney would need Mr Dixon’s testimony to lay the ground work for entering it.

Now that being said when DN takes one of the letter receivers to court they will no longer be look to get $3500 US. They are going to be asking for the max. And with Mr Dixon’s records and testimony I dare say they will prevail. People you can’t BK out of this kind of a judgment. They, DN, will take everything you own and garnish you earnings for the rest of your life or until the judgment is satisfied. If you think not, take a look at Michael Vick, now with the Eagles, and what the Federal Courts have been doing to him since his release from prison. If it wasn’t for his stand up girlfriend this NFL star would be living out of a refrigerator box and driving a Yugo. I’m not telling anyone to pay it but you need to get some legal consul and go from there. There is a lot more to lose then $3500. And I agree with Nostradamus in that if you have illegally obtained encrypted satellite broadcasts for more then a year, and some of you have been doing it for decades, you would still be way ahead by only pay $3500. The last is JMO

[Nostradamus]

thanks for the clarification, I was thinking a deposition would serve the purpose of witness by proxy type of thing. either way the end results are still the same and if you decide to mess with them it will probably end up costing the individual more

[sodusme]

In reading some of the responses here about the judgment and its ultimate collection, it should be noted that a lot of the IKS users I'm sure are on SSI or disability or some other type of federal aid. Those types of aids CANNOT be garnished to settle a lawsuit. So while I know some people say "they will take everything you own" that's not entirely accurate. They can only touch that in certain cases such as child support, back taxes, or spousal support.

If you are a senior and maybe live in an apartment (so you own no real estate) and maybe commute around town via bus (you own no vehicle) and live on SSI (you have no garnishable wages) than there isn't much they can do to you.


http://www.consumerfinance.gov/askcfpb/1157/can-creditor-garnish-my-social-security-benefits-pay-debt.html

Now I'm not necessarily telling you to not pay it but only you know your situation. If you fit into the above category I'd consult an attorney and see what exactly they can touch if anything.

[Night_Predator]

@ Nostradamus very true the cost of fighting something like this is more then the $3500 to start with and if one loses the cost could and more then likely would be astronomical. That’s why each letter receiver should pay for an hour or two of a competent attorney specializing in copyrights.

@ sodusme true, true. Social Security, Railroad retirement, SSI, most Federal retirement, VA Benefits………can not be garnished. Some states, such as FL do not allow any disability or retirement to be garnished. That’s why OJ moved there after he was found liable in his ex-wife’s and Ron Goldman’s wrongful death lawsuit. But then it gets tricky. If one has these moneys direct deposited or deposits it themselves into a bank account then it becomes fair game. There are some states, again FL, which safeguards the retirement proceeds even after they are deposited. But most states do not. Again the best thing for any of these people to do is speak to an attorney in the field.

[Grave Digger]

If you are a senior and maybe live in an apartment (so you own no real estate) and maybe commute around town via bus (you own no vehicle) and live on SSI (you have no garnishable wages) than there isn't much they can do to you.



sure there is, they will freeze your bank account,

once the funds are deposited they are immediately withdrawn and are not available to you, just like the government will do the same if you owe taxes,

if you have any form of traceable income, they will get the money, doesnt matter if it government issued, they cant garnish it, but they can freeze your bank account, and take it from there

the only way around a court order is if your income is cash and not traceable....like drug dealing or prostitution

[Grave Digger]

what would I say to try to reduce it??..


thanks for your advice

get a lawyer to contact them to negotiate the rate and work out a payment plan, he will have much better success then you will, dont let this screw up your life for years to come, solve the small problem before it becomes a nightmare

[sodusme]

sure there is, they will freeze your bank account,

once the funds are deposited they are immediately withdrawn and are not available to you, just like the government will do the same if you owe taxes,

if you have any form of traceable income, they will get the money, doesnt matter if it government issued, they cant garnish it, but they can freeze your bank account, and take it from there

the only way around a court order is if your income is cash and not traceable....like drug dealing or prostitution

Absolutely false. Did you read the article I linked to at all? Or are you just shooting from the cuff? Being that this is a .GOV site I'd probably believe they know what they are talking about. I'd advice you to read the following article:


http://www.consumerfinance.gov/askcfpb/1157/can-creditor-garnish-my-social-security-benefits-pay-debt.html


Under a federal rule that became effective in May 2011, your bank is required automatically to protect up to two months of these benefits that are directly deposited into your account.

In the past, when a creditor asked a bank to garnish an account, the bank would generally freeze the account while the parties sorted out whether the money was exempt.

Now, if the bank receives a garnishment order against an account holder, the bank must review all accounts owned by the person to see whether any of the exempt federal benefits were electronically deposited during the preceding two months. If yes, the bank must calculate the protected amount. That amount equals all benefit amounts direct deposited in the account in the two-month period or the balance in the account, whichever is less. The bank must notify you that this amount is protected.

If any of these situations apply to you, your money still may be exempt from garnishment, but you will have to tell the court or your creditor that you think money in your bank account is exempt.

[Grave Digger]

Absolutely false. Did you read the article I linked to at all? Or are you just shooting from the cuff? Being that this is a .GOV site I'd probably believe they know what they are talking about. I'd advice you to read the following article:


http://www.consumerfinance.gov/askcfpb/1157/can-creditor-garnish-my-social-security-benefits-pay-debt.html

they protect the preceding two months of government deposits,

they wont protect anything that is deposited after the judgement has occured,

i know somebody in this exact situation, and while the court judgement they have against them has nothing to do with IKS it would still be the same result

[torpainter]

lots more letters coming
c and p from zeta

Lawsuit from Dish/EchoStar (copy of donation email)
I got a certified mail today from a lawfirm and it says that Dish/Echostar is filing a lawsuit against me for use of NFPS server.

It's suspicious b/c they're asking me to pay $3500 and will drop lawsuit.

The thing that concerns me is that they have a copy of the email that was sent from Francis Phillip or vgiddy from this website.

So thing I ask myself is how did they get access to those emails unless they accessed it through his account?

[sodusme]

lots more letters coming
c and p from zeta

Lawsuit from Dish/EchoStar (copy of donation email)
I got a certified mail today from a lawfirm and it says that Dish/Echostar is filing a lawsuit against me for use of NFPS server.

It's suspicious b/c they're asking me to pay $3500 and will drop lawsuit.

The thing that concerns me is that they have a copy of the email that was sent from Francis Phillip or vgiddy from this website.

So thing I ask myself is how did they get access to those emails unless they accessed it through his account?

OH boy we knew that was coming....

[smallyjohnson]

How about Peter Sellers.....eh! hey how much for the peter im having some problems with mine

[Grave Digger]

OH boy we knew that was coming....

haha, yup, thousands of letters are on the way,

i guess we are starting to find out exactly how much this "free tv" is costing people,

VGiddy was in Canada, so im sure letters will extend north of the border this time,

good luck in court people,

[jvvh5897]

If they did try thousands of letters, folks might actually band together, fight them and maybe even win. Can you say "class action"?

[It's Jafo]

Probably posted else where but thought I would share in case it wasn't:

http://pastebay.net/1184124

[NoName]

this game gets more and more scary by the minute. Feel for any people who got the letter or who may get it.

[sodusme]

Probably posted else where but thought I would share in case it wasn't:

http://pastebay.net/1184124

Interesting I had not seen that nor heard of it.

Nothing spectacular though by the person who perpetrated it I'm sorry to say. All you need to do is "bug" the PM with an outside smiley who logs all the information. If any of those guys might still have that PM all they need to do is right click on the smiley present in the PM and see who's hosting it or in other words what URL it leads to. I'm willing to bet its a smiley from the site hosted on a 3rd party site and is "phoning" home all the information outlined in that Paste. The authorities aren't into investigating i.p.'s that are harvested in that way unless they are the ones initiating the harvesting so the "hacker" (and I use that term loosely as that person is NOT a hacker) went through a lot of trouble of setting up that phishing site for nothing.

Bush league....

[sodusme]

For anyone interested here is a write up on exactly how these i.p.'s were phished.


http://www.thetechgame.com/Archives/p=7974044.html

But this is definitely NOT anonymous. They don't work that way. Someone modified a write up from them tracing people on the TOR network and used it for this Paste.

[Night_Predator]

Thanks sodusme for that article. Good reading and good to know that the US gov’t has changed that law. So there is a little solace for some of those receiving letters who are on limited income.

As for the new letters we did know this was coming sooner then later.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

haha, yup, thousands of letters are on the way,

i guess we are starting to find out exactly how much this "free tv" is costing people,

VGiddy was in Canada, so im sure letters will extend north of the border this time,

good luck in court people,



No not necesarrily as Dark Angel was Canada and only people in the US got letters.



GS2

[1boxman]

Probably posted else where but thought I would share in case it wasn't:

http://pastebay.net/1184124

If I recall...it was posted when zeta and beta ...lets say where at it ...all so others at that time ..

[missclinton]

Thanks sodusme for that article. Good reading and good to know that the US gov’t has changed that law. So there is a little solace for some of those receiving letters who are on limited income.

As for the new letters we did know this was coming sooner then later.

its simple, really...my grandmother wanted to know what FTA meant...some of us (grandchildren) toild her we didnt know and aqsk her why? she said she was sent an email asking her to join if she wanted to veiw more channels and was told for a small fee she could have more...she was also told , after talking to a neighbour about it, weeks later, that it would cost her more since she would have to buy the equipment...she then asked how much more? neighbour told her, look, i likes your homemade apple pies..lets make a deal where by you bake me a fresh apple pie each week for 2 yrs and ill get that equipment for you...she pondered a little and siad ok, can my grandchildren deal with this im not good with figures and all...neighbour obliged...

few weeks later, grandchild was told you have to point the dish here and there and anywhere you can to get those free channels...she says yah but, i was hoping for more..isnt FTA supposed to give me all i want, she asked?

her grandchild said yes but youll have to connect to a special server that opnes some channels at a small cost...how much she asked, depends who you connect with, grandchild (jimmie) said...he then added he knew of one that offers a connection and she would have to donate a small amount for their service..and all FTA channels would be there for her...she was alos told she would need make a payment by way of donation via PP..she asked, WHHHAT is that, child?? jimmie said look grandma, ill set it up for ya and get the help of my neighbour since he knows more about it...credit cards are bieng used with user's apparent knowledge it was all legit and few wks later the donation was sent by usual channels...

so, she gets all these foreign channels by connecting to a service, well call them ...FTASERVERIKS...but that service NEVER ever once told their customer what else was needed to open other better known channels...like files and software..BUT didnt matter cuz grandma was very happy with all those foreign channels and sometimes she didnt even care if she couldnt understand their language..she told jimmy she would just have to watch and learn...she was so happy she passed laong her experinece with many of her decrepid oldtimers and next thing you knew all her nighbours and friends were connecting to this server

all the while this server has always warned agains unauthorized decrypting of channels and do NOT condone such action...all they are offering to connect to their server is FTA donations...of course there are always those who misuse their donations BUT servers cannot control this behaviour ...there is a strict understanding between buyer and provider this is all about FTA channels and that IF any provider sued them or took action the ONLY liability would lye with buyer and provider would have to conatct their server if they wanted logs of connections and to what was being shared

moral of the story, is?? more and more servers should offer this ownderfulk service to connect so they can access all those wonderful foreign channels even if they are charging you for it..no differtent than other entities in this world offering something and after purchase you get something tottaly different then waht was advertised..either way, more happy customers like granny means more servers offering GREAT FTA SERVICE... you all get the idea, right? ;) enough is enough, right? iks is simply sharing FTA channels unless you screw around with your don and somehow mange to view other channels,,servers dont control THAT aspect nor can any provider prove otherwise of its TRUE intent...food for thought my friends at server end..lets wake up and do this right and be done with these letters once and for all.

providers MUST connect ALL the dots before accusing endusers what it is they are vieweing with their dons for...all i know is granny enjoys her FTA channels and many servers, like mfps, friedfish, sprockets and various are more than happy to provide at a small fee for...not much different than streaming share, really and all mostly legit...come on lawyers, surely you know there is a way around all this mess?? ;)

[Nostradamus]

well the fly in that ointment is granny doesn't need a code to receive control words to watch true FTA channels

[missclinton]

well the fly in that ointment is granny doesn't need a code to receive control words to watch true FTA channels

thats the thing, granny isnt the wiser...thats what scams are all about...to many of you in the hobby, she got scammed...so what, every tom dick and jimmy get scammed every single day of the week with many many many retail products out there..the point is, the provider cannot tell the courts what it is you are viewing and that, many like granny get taken with the belief FTA is truly NOT free..thats the work around the provider's allegation...anyways, i know some poeple are more than happy to pay for things that can otherwise be had for free by other means, illegal or not...so long as granny thinks FTA is offered by a wonderful company like mfts or sprockets?? no one is the wiser...UNLESS she starts to read forums like these and can make sense of all this gibberish im typing? she will still be happy with that small fee to keep her newfound hobby going ;)

remember, here, the point is getting around these letters..im simply offering a scenario (or like a lwayer would ask in court to a witness ) "hypotheticaly" speaking ...a granny or aunt, or uncle who know nadda about FTA... ;)

[bigbird]

Did granny pay via PP? If so she is as done as her apple pie.

bigbird

[Nostradamus]

I am afraid old granny could still be prosecuted regardless of what she thought she was doing. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and unless granny has dementia or alzheimers can still be...

[alex70olds]

lol If they are posting they got a letter, with a nic used to purchase codes, final nail. Remember FFA? They also have that db, complete with all PM's, except the Admins. That did not help him in his case, but everyone else PM's are also being used.

19946

Oh and they can not touch Disability and the such. There are other stipulations as well.

Here is the post he (fhilip) received from a very ill informed mod at one of the promotional sites.


i don't know but I'll tell you this. If you do pay then you are admitting defeat to these low life extortionist aholes. It's more then defeat too. It's allowing them to commit acts of extortion and etc !!
I can't give advise on what to do. I have lots a money and a lawyer that I trust, so my advise is byassed

lol, did I say ass ??

Here is a post fhilip made.


hi....is anyone recive a letter on this year??2013??...i get one and trying to findout if im the onlyone...tnks

[RG6A]

There is a grandfather clause that is available as a defense but unfortunately it does not apply to grandmothers.

[mudflap]

He's a scum bag telling everyone that he doesn't keep records if I ever get the chance I would stomp his teeth out....p$ is a joke and you can't trust anyone

[mudflap]

I'm not mad cause I got caught cause I knew the risk but I have always wondered why this site closed and reopened

[sodusme]

I'm not mad cause I got caught cause I knew the risk but I have always wondered why this site closed and reopened

You are referring to SF? If I remember right it was to hose down everything after Wùf. Maybe someone from management can be more specific but I think it was to scrub the walls, floors and ceiling. ;)

[sodusme]

lol If they are posting they got a letter, with a nic used to purchase codes, final nail. Remember FFA? They also have that db, complete with all PM's, except the Admins. That did not help him in his case, but everyone else PM's are also being used.

19946

Oh and they can not touch Disability and the such. There are other stipulations as well.

Here is the post he (fhilip) received from a very ill informed mod at one of the promotional sites.



Here is a post fhilip made.

One thing that strikes me as hilarious is this passage from the declaration:


Once the service was accessed, which entailed connecting an unauthorized receiver to the NFPS or IKS Rocket server,....

Um your honor I beg to differ but the receivers in question were MOST certainly "authorized" to connect to the NFPS and Rocket servers. Hell what do these clowns think? That a D/N receiver would be authorized to connect to the NFPS and Rocket servers? Whoever types this sh*t up is watching too many court shows I'm afraid. :yes:

[dishuser]

One thing that strikes me as hilarious is this passage from the declaration:



Um your honor I beg to differ but the receivers in question were MOST certainly "authorized" to connect to the NFPS and Rocket servers. Hell what do these clowns think? That a D/N receiver would be authorized to connect to the NFPS and Rocket servers? Whoever types this sh*t up is watching too many court shows I'm afraid. :yes:
unauthorized as in not a subbed ird

[sodusme]

unauthorized as in not a subbed ird

LOL I know what they mean. But what they said and what they mean are two different things. A better and more accurate way to phrase that would be "a non-Dish Network authorized receiver...." OR "a non-subscribed Dish Network receiver..." They are wording it as if to say the receiver was not authorized to connect to NFPS and Rocket servers and it was. In fact those servers were the only medium it was technically authorized to connect to.

[dishuser]

LOL I know what they mean. But what they said and what they mean are two different things. A better and more accurate way to phrase that would be "a non-Dish Network authorized receiver...." OR "a non-subscribed Dish Network receiver..." They are wording it as if to say the receiver was not authorized to connect to NFPS and Rocket servers and it was. In fact those servers were the only medium it was technically authorized to connect to.
they(nfps) have no right to say what is authorized ;)

[surfinisfun]

LOL I know what they mean. But what they said and what they mean are two different things. A better and more accurate way to phrase that would be "a non-Dish Network authorized receiver...." OR "a non-subscribed Dish Network receiver..." They are wording it as if to say the receiver was not authorized to connect to NFPS and Rocket servers and it was. In fact those servers were the only medium it was technically authorized to connect to.

Absolutely correct sod, the way it reads its an unauthorized receiver connecting to nfps or rocket, i believe any fta receiver able to connect newcam falls under that category.

[dishuser]

Absolutely correct sod, the way it reads its an unauthorized receiver connecting to nfps or rocket, i believe any fta receiver able to connect newcam falls under that category.
and any unsubbed ird
who's pursuing?
dn of course
is it a subbed ird being used?
of course not...lol

[surfinisfun]

and any unsubbed ird
who's pursuing?
dn of course
is it a subbed ird being used?
of course not...lol

Lol, Don't get me wrong, i agree the wording sod is talking about but there is almost no chance that once they decide to pursue things in "civil" court is that going to really save anyone.

[sodusme]

LOL sure they do on &quot;their&quot; servers they can &quot;authorize&quot; any receiver they see fit. They setup, manage and control the infrastructure therefore they are in charge of what connects to it. Now grant it...

[sodusme]

The way they are wording it "unauthorized receiver" makes you say "unauthorized of what"? Kind of like when people say "he killed an innocent man". Makes you want to say "innocent of what"?

[RG6A]

Well that was pretty long winded and allot about nothing. <br />
<br />
<br />
The term &quot;Unauthorized Receivers&quot; was already defined in the complaint in this case. All further uses of the phrase in the case are...

[sodusme]

Well that was pretty long winded and allot about nothing.


The term "Unauthorized Receivers" was already defined in the complaint in this case. All further uses of the phrase in the case are already understood.

20. Several years ago pirates developed a method to circumvent the DISH Network
security system and intercept DISH Network’s satellite broadcasts using so-called “free-to-air”
or “FTA” receivers (“unauthorized receivers”). Initially, this method of piracy was
accomplished by loading software that contains the proprietary data and keys to DISH Network’s
security system (“piracy software”) onto circuit chips in the unauthorized receiver, so as to
mimic a legitimate NagraStar smart card.

Lets not go there huh? While I appreciate the snide remark like I said I personally found it humorous. I don't cotton well to snide remarks from people trying to show their intelligence especially when those same people don't even know that "a lot" is two separate words and not spelled "allot". As in how many portions of something do you "allot". So if you're going to be a smartäss in the future you should probably learn to spell first and foremost.

They can say its "unauthorized" all they want but the bottom line is the damn thing IS only unauthorized from THEIR perspective and it is not unauthorized to connect to the NFPS and Rocket servers. You need to read the way they have worded it again as I don't think you are quite "getting" what its saying.

Not to mention you are reciting the definition of a STAND alone receiver as its been defined and the way it functions. Stand alone receivers and IKS receivers are two different animals.

[RG6A]

The law suit glossary already defined "unauthorized receiver" as being a "free to air" or "FTA" receiver. SO, it's directed by that glossary that you (mentally) transpose "FTA" or "free to air" into each time "unauthorized receiver" is mentioned in the text.

If you want to ignore all of the filings in the law suit and read the declaration out of context then you will likely come up with your incorrect conclusion as to its meaning.

[RG6A]

BTW, the following is not "my definition", it was taken verbatim from the complaint.

20. Several years ago pirates developed a method to circumvent the DISH Network
security system and intercept DISH Network’s satellite broadcasts using so-called “free-to-air”
or “FTA” receivers (“unauthorized receivers”). Initially, this method of piracy was
accomplished by loading software that contains the proprietary data and keys to DISH Network’s
security system (“piracy software”) onto circuit chips in the unauthorized receiver, so as to
mimic a legitimate NagraStar smart card.

[Grave Digger]

Lets not go there huh? While I appreciate the snide remark like I said I personally found it humorous. I don't cotton well to snide remarks from people trying to show their intelligence especially when those same people don't even know that "a lot" is two separate words and not spelled "allot". As in how many portions of something do you "allot". So if you're going to be a smartäss in the future you should probably learn to spell first and foremost.



Sod, you are a wise man and i agree for the most part on what you say,

but you need to grow up and take things like a MAN,

"RG6A" made some very valid points against you, and then you come back and criticize his spelling?

come on dude, grow up and learn to take it on the chin

[RG6A]

Tnx Grave Digger.

For the record, and I did not want to get in to it with you, I typed "alot" really quickly and not hitting the space bar. Auto-correct thought I meant allot.

[sodusme]

The law suit glossary already defined "unauthorized receiver" as being a "free to air" or "FTA" receiver. SO, it's directed by that glossary that you (mentally) transpose "FTA" or "free to air" into each time "unauthorized receiver" is mentioned in the text.

If you want to ignore all of the filings in the law suit and read the declaration out of context then you will likely come up with your incorrect conclusion as to its meaning.


BTW, the following is not "my definition", it was taken verbatim from the complaint.

20. Several years ago pirates developed a method to circumvent the DISH Network
security system and intercept DISH Network’s satellite broadcasts using so-called “free-to-air”
or “FTA” receivers (“unauthorized receivers”). Initially, this method of piracy was
accomplished by loading software that contains the proprietary data and keys to DISH Network’s
security system (“piracy software”) onto circuit chips in the unauthorized receiver, so as to
mimic a legitimate NagraStar smart card.

And I'm telling you the meaning as you have posted it is wrong (be it their interpretation or yours). That meaning pertains to a stand alone receiver running software that is flashed to an EEPROM chip. It does not express how an IKS receiver runs.

Now that I think about it why do you give two xxxxx anyways? Do you work for this two bit outfit DEI? Do you have some vested interest that the "truth" get out? The sentence: which entailed connecting an unauthorized receiver to the NFPS or IKS Rocket server is worded incorrectly. You can tell me what they "meant" all you want but the fact remains the way its written has a whole other connotation. I realize what they "meant" but some ex-RCMP that thinks he's the next Perry Mason wrote this up and and he's an idiot. End of story.

[sodusme]

Sod, you are a wise man and i agree for the most part on what you say,

but you need to grow up and take things like a MAN,

"RG6A" made some very valid points against you, and then you come back and criticize his spelling?

come on dude, grow up and learn to take it on the chin

Yeah and he also said:
Well that was pretty long winded and allot about nothing. Boy that is really being a "MAN" isn't it? He sure showed me. xxxxxx!!!!

I'll learn to take it on the chin when you chicken xxxxx that wouldn't talk to me like this in person stop trying to do it from the comfort of your keyboard. How's that sound? Then you get your panties all in a bunch when I jump back. I don't take xxxxx on these forums not from you, not from him, not from anybody. You wanna get rude with me go for it but if you do I'm gonna jump right back. So expect it.

[sodusme]

Tnx Grave Digger.

For the record, and I did not want to get in to it with you, I typed "alot" really quickly and not hitting the space bar. Auto-correct thought I meant allot.

Then don't be an xxxxxx and tell me my post is "long winded".

Honestly dude how did you think I would take that? You have been around these forums long enough and you most likely know who I am. Did you think I would reply: "Yes sir I'll watch the length of my posts from now on"? Did you really think that was going to happen? Or did you maybe think that would p!ss me off a little?

For somebody who "did not want to get in to it with you" you have a funny way of showing it.

[Anubis]

Sod, my "x" key is getting worn out with the implied language bud.;)

[Nostradamus]

Sod, my "x" key is getting worn out with the implied language bud.;)

so switch to ******* ;)

[RG6A]

And I'm telling you the meaning as you have posted it is wrong (be it their interpretation or yours). That meaning pertains to a stand alone receiver running software that is flashed to an EEPROM chip. It does not express how an IKS receiver runs.

No one claimed that the following definition applied to IKS. It actually describes very well a stand alone FTA receiver loaded with an image of a DN card.

20. Several years ago pirates developed a method to circumvent the DISH Network
security system and intercept DISH Network’s satellite broadcasts using so-called “free-to-air”
or “FTA” receivers (“unauthorized receivers”). Initially, this method of piracy was
accomplished by loading software that contains the proprietary data and keys to DISH Network’s
security system (“piracy software”) onto circuit chips in the unauthorized receiver, so as to
mimic a legitimate NagraStar smart card.


What you don't know is that law suits have to give the court a history to give meaning to the present suit.

You will just have to read the rest of the complaint yourself to see where IKS with FTA (unauthorized receivers) is defined.

[Anubis]

so switch to ******* ;)
That would require using the shift key as well and another finger. lol

[sodusme]

No one claimed that the following definition applied to IKS. It actually describes very well a stand alone FTA receiver loaded with an image of a DN card.

20. Several years ago pirates developed a method to circumvent the DISH Network
security system and intercept DISH Network’s satellite broadcasts using so-called “free-to-air”
or “FTA” receivers (“unauthorized receivers”). Initially, this method of piracy was
accomplished by loading software that contains the proprietary data and keys to DISH Network’s
security system (“piracy software”) onto circuit chips in the unauthorized receiver, so as to
mimic a legitimate NagraStar smart card.


What you don't know is that law suits have to give the court a history to give meaning to the present suit.

You will just have to read the rest of the complaint yourself to see where IKS with FTA (unauthorized receivers) is defined.

OK but that's not the issue here. Forget about that.

The issue is I clearly stated that I (my opinion ONLY) found it humorous in the wording of that sentence. My opinion which may or may not be shared by you as you are free to have your own opinion was met with a rude/snide comment on your part. That is the problem here.

Now you're trying to shift gears and change the topic to "but the definition of the stand alone receiver is accurate". Yeah OK its accurate but the fact remains don't be an xxxxx and I won't react this way.

Its all about delivery dude. Had you simply posted what you posted withOUT the rude comment and trying to be head rooster here we wouldn't even be having this conversation and poor Anubis's edit keys wouldn't be getting worn out.

So in the future if you don't want to "get into it with me" then use your xxxxx head and don't post garbage like you did. Speak to me like you would if I was standing right in front of you, don't try to get me going 'cause I'll tell you it will not be received well. I'm not in any mood for that crap.

You remind me of Cadman who thought he could post anything he wanted on another forum and nobody was supposed to call him on it. Then he would switch gears and change the subject when he was called on it. Well ask him how that worked out for him? Just as well as its gonna work out for you.

[Nostradamus]

well I think that is about enough, either settle down and stay on topic or I will just shut the thread down until people had a chance to cool off

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Once the service was accessed through the IKS server it provided a method where your receiver accessed DN's programming. Your able to accessed their signal without their authorization so to say the receiver is an unauthorized receiver in the context of receiving their encrypted programming fits. Although I understand the wording can lead one to think they are saying the receiver is not authorized to the server I think if you take the whole paragraph one could also look at it as saying the receiver is not authorized to receive their programming. None of this matters either way being in some declaration some worded mistake has zero bearing.




Once the service was accessed, which
entailed connecting an unauthorized receiver to the NFPS or IKS Rocket server, the customer
was then able to obtain the control words or “keys” required to decrypt DISH Network
programming, which is known in the piracy community as “Internet key sharing” or “IKS.”
Subscribers to NFPS and IKS Rocket used the control words to receive DISH Network’s satellite
signal without authorization.




GS2

[sodusme]

well I think that is about enough, either settle down and stay on topic or I will just shut the thread down until people had a chance to cool off

Oh I'm settled down and completely cooled off. In fact I have been all night even though I may post some explicit language doesn't mean I'm foaming at the mouth and jumping up and down and spitting all over my keyboard. Quite the contrary I'm totally at ease.


Once the service was accessed through the IKS server it provided a method where your receiver accessed DN's programming. Your able to accessed their signal without their authorization so to say the receiver is an unauthorized receiver in the context of receiving their encrypted programming fits. Although I understand the wording can lead one to think they are saying the receiver is not authorized to the server I think if you take the whole paragraph one could also look at it as saying the receiver is not authorized to receive their programming. None of this matters either way being in some declaration some worded mistake has zero bearing.








GS2

Absolutely correct it was merely a "humorous" observation on my part. Nothing more.

[Terryl]

Oh I'm settled down and completely cooled off. In fact I have been all night even though I may post some explicit language doesn't mean I'm foaming at the mouth and jumping up and down and spitting all over my keyboard. Quite the contrary I'm totally at ease.



Absolutely correct it was merely a "humorous" observation on my part. Nothing more.

Don't worry I do that every night....And sometimes during the day........NYUK NYUK NYUK

[ShotGun]

Say Brother.... may I..... I talked to a lawyer many years ago about how to avoid a DWI...... as I was doing some work for him..... was a simple question .... now for his reply.... he said when the cop walks up to your car,,,,,,, take a half pint of your brand of whiskey with the window rolled up and drink the whole bottle..

Now they might ask you why you drank that... your nerves hit an all time high and you needed to relax as you knew the crooked cops will find some way to carry you to jail and take your MONEY!

Now court comes and its thrown out of court.... you was not driving and was stopped with the engine turned off............You have a great mind,,,,, don`t allow others to change your course!

I don`t want anyone to tell me I spelled something wrong,,,, as I am holding three fingers up..... read between the lines aaaaawwwwweeeeeeee..... and one more thing How are you these days,,, I hope your doing fine!


Notation to all before you give me something.......their is a parable .... look for it with an OPEN MIND!

[talon07]

hahaha good one