Rumor: new iks on the horizon?

[Highwayman]

This is a rumor and looks like bull to me?
I see a member or two here over there.

[sneakymise]

Can you elaborate?
Just for ****s and giggles! :D

[nob0dy]

Can you elaborate?
Just for ****s and giggles! :D

& i thought i was the only one that didn't understand ...:noidea:

[wheresmystuff]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/office-space-meme-thats-just-crazy-talk.jpg

[fxdwg]

it was reported as spam on another sitr and post got deleted...i have the link to the new site if mods want me to post it..
suppose to have dave again i guess.

[iq180]

it was reported as spam on another sitr and post got deleted...i have the link to the new site if mods want me to post it..
suppose to have dave again i guess.
Well if it is true it's not going to end well for who ever has the bells big enough to try it,JMO,LOL.

[1boxman]

Are we playing charades ??? cause it sounds like ... one syllable... GO!

Gives us a bone man !!!

[sneakymise]

Are we playing charades ??? cause it sounds like ... one syllable... GO!

Gives us a bone man !!!

LOL :bump:

[fxdwg]

c/p


Dave tv in testing Ird with old receiver
please we need testers and admins/mods
check out site now because when dave is up that site will go
private and can't get on to site because of our protection to
our members..Please we will be doing dish,iptv,roku tv,mytv
dave tv.Dave will be in testing because we have to see how
ird runs...

this is not spam and a remind to old hu days just turn to iks with ird
running right now but has to be older receivers.We need mods.admins
and i am talking to some fta teams of trying to make a bin for direct tv
channel list and for fta box dreambox t4 t5 right now is what we are working
on..

Thank you Mods/admin..

[sneakymise]

Ok now it's much clearer why this is in the rumour section!
So many points in that post that don't make any sense for it to be real...
Oh well was a fun read... Next!

[fxdwg]

the guy goes by the name waterflow...

[1boxman]

You sure its not rusty pipes ??

[Condor]

You sure its not rusty pipes ??

Now that's funny... heheheheheeee!!

[abouttosnap]

Still have my HDS100R from 97...24393...where's the beef. One of those with the crazy looking lnb. lol...24394

[Anubis]

Think I still have my old rca dave box and one last P4 card and whatever in the box. Probably a cooked P4. lol

[timbuck2]

Well if it is true it's not going to end well for who ever has the bells big enough to try it,JMO,LOL.

Dave sent extortion letters and Charlie is sending extortion letters. One isn't really more risky than the other. If it's possible to implement an IKS system with Dave, someone will do it as there's a lot of money to be made from that.

[Nostradamus]

there is a big difference in how Dave & Charlie sent letters. Dave primarily went after dealers, coders and support sites and an end user if they were lucky enough to find one. that is pretty much what Charles is doing now but Dave played hardball back then and I can't imagine any site dumb enough to host Dave files and offer support. I also can't imagine any one having the balls to run a Dave IKS server publicly or even promoting one. So if it ever comes to pass, in order to survive it will be small and underground.

And if dave ever got a server and seized it, almost a guarantee everyone would get paper work once he looked at the server logs

[timbuck2]

I think they chose that method because it was hard to go after end users. It was difficulty gathering evidence against them as their protection was completely compromised and reception worked without requiring internet connectivity. If there is a Dave IKS in the future, I think they'll do the same thing as Charlie. It's much easier to go after end users in the US and make money off of that than dealing with jurisdiction issues with offshore servers.

[dishuser]

I think they chose that method because it was hard to go after end users. It was difficulty gathering evidence against them as their protection was completely compromised and reception worked without requiring internet connectivity. If there is a Dave IKS in the future, I think they'll do the same thing as Charlie. It's much easier to go after end users in the US and make money off of that than dealing with jurisdiction issues with offshore servers.
tell that to tomico
by the way they took his parents house and put them in jail too

[Highwayman]

I havent signed up to this forum so i dont know whats going on there but the forum itself is interesting
for the sake of discussion, Free forum??

[Midnight Rider]

The President of DIRECTV
Unregistered guest


WHY A P4 HACK IS IMPOSSIBLE

First, the background:
To watch a particular channel, the receiver needs to receiver a DES key, 80 bits in length, every 8 seconds.
Random data, generated (from a strong random source) at DTV headquarters, and sent to a card with all the tiers at dave headquarters. The result from that golden card is used as the DES key -- Even DTV can't predict the key. The tiers are added to that card through local communication -- not on the public stream.
The core of the encryption is the ASIC, which implements a seeded psuedo-
random number stream in hardware. Only a few designers know how this works.
When a new generation of card is added, DTV runs those cards in PARALLEL, takes the XOR of their results, and sends that in the compatibility packets (CMD7F) - so there is no relation between the ASICs in each generation.


So.. how to attack this:
The IRD?
The IRD is worthless from the hacking perspective. It just relays packets to and from the data stream to the card. Without the card, the IRD has no way of knowing what a golden card would return.
Note that one DBS board, iso reader and subbed card, along with (unwritten?) software could give you an IRDless setup.
Finally, many different manufacturers make IRDs. Anyone who can talk a good story could probably get the specifications under NDA from DTV.

DTV itself:
There is a reluctance to this, as most people like to consider collecting signals as not a moral offense, but actually intruding into a foreign system with intent to acquire data is a different story. That said, there has been at least one court document which detailed the security precautions taken by DTV with access card data. These precautions, assuming they are followed, include air gaps between sensitive systems and internal machines. If you were capable of getting into DTV's internal network, you would also be capable of finding much more lucrative targets with more of a chance of reward...

That leaves the card....

The obvious target is the ASIC, which historically has been designed by NDS. NDS is a company with a large degree of cryptographic experience. Adi Shamir, one of the fathers of public key cryptography (and the S in RSA) is one of the founders of NDS. Since the H card, the ASIC has never been compromised -- not even with attacks discovered after their designs, such as Kocher's timing attack. And that's even if I can GET at the ASIC.

So, what about the old standbys...

First, software attacks. Dishnet has been very susceptible to these, as was the H card. During the design of the HU card, DTV instituted line-by-line code reviews, and common error handling via Trap #9. These resulted in COMPLETE success -- no exploitable software bugs were found in the HU card even after a complete disassembly.
Conclusion - there is unlikely to be any exploitable software bugs in the P4 family...

Protocol Weakness...

The next question might be, is there something in the protocol that can be repeated, dropped, or otherwise missused. DTV's protocol has been very strong from the beginning -- using Zero Knowlege tests for the CAMID and public key encrypted and digitally signed packets. The card swap mechanism was strongly designed to avoid weaknesses -- and,even if there were holes, the liability would be limitted. Nor does the card have any concept of a "channel" -- its all in the encrypted packet which results in the DES key. Finally, the P4 card will disable itself through a write-once area if you sent too many bad packets to it.

Information extraction (using passive means)

Timing, power analysis, or even "listening" to the card reveals nothing except for possibly ZKT information (if you wanted to scam people with a CAMID/ZKT pair....). Getting timing information from the ASIC requires executing code on the card -- and there are techniques to prevent this, such as random loops, redundant calculation and normalization (always do the operation and then throw away the results that aren't needed).
So, that doesn't help.

Glitching... our old friend..
Glitching will be defined as ANY attack which varies any physical parameter of the card, be it the old standards (power, clock) or new (light, targeted magnetic fields) or absurd (alpha particle bombardment).
There are three defenses to overcome....
1. a capacitor provides for a steady current -- nix the voltage glitching and there are detectors should you bypass (fib edit) or destroy the capacitor. So even if you COULD bypass the capacitor on your card -- how do you package a very expensive FIB (focused ION beam) machine with every loader?!...
2. An internal clock so no clock glitching, and synchronizing your glitches is very, very tricky...
3. Finally, the last measure of protection -- software tricks against glitching... even with the ROM dump, these tricks are hard to get around, as was seen with the Hu. With the P4, these are improved. Examples include reading a random number from a hardware RNG, dividing it by a constant (variable amount of time), and remultiplying and checking the result. Since each divide/multiply takes a random amount of time, based on the random number, you won't know how to time a glitch to get past the jump on the incorrect result -- and if you glitch early, you muck up either the divide or multiply, and the software has caught you!

Together these defenses make glitching into this card practically impossible.
(if you know a good way around the divide/multiply method.. please let me know)

Physical security...
So, giving up on all the non destructive attacks, lets say I rip apart my card, take out the chip, remove layers with incredibly hazardous chemicals (shortening my lifespan in the process). Northsat did this on the Hu, and DTV doesn't make mistakes twice. For the P4 and later, there are physical tamper protections. There are thin wires in the protective metal layers above the processor which, if dissolved, result in the card not powering up. Manually patching all of these will be tedious. FUrther, the P4 has light sensitive areas, so you have to do all this in the dark! Finally, the core layout of key chips is spaghetti because of cell-based design and better layout software (poor mask designers...) so you'll need a electron microscope (or better) and a laser voltage probe to even figure out what is going on.. and a lot of time, patience and money..

So the most accessible approach is to make very good friends with the janitor at a well equipped college campus, or sleep with a very well connected DTV employee and con them out of the documents...

Assuming that you get the complete ROM dump (by either means) and you have the Opcodes, and you find, miracle of miracles, an unchecked buffer overflow. Glitching still won't work, so this is your only chance.

Now, the parts that make this really tough:

Non-executable EEPROm -- (can anyone confirm?) This means that even if you found a bug, you have to apply your patch every time the card resets. This means an interposer or IRD modification to send down the exploit. On the other hand, it means that dynamic updates are less likely..

Less safe space to store code --
Since the P4 is split into multiple cores, there is very little general purpose RAM for a complicated 3M -- copying code from eeprom (assuming you can find space) into ram is going to make writing any sort of code for this card a real nuisance.

fatal ECMs:
Since glitching is impossible, the first ECM you get hit with is the last. Since the supply of new P4s is still limitted, 3M writing is going to be like breakdancing in a minefield...Activation and PPV wipes will be tough to hit, although anything out of the ordinary - like incorrect dates, unknown tiers, or corrupted group keys, and you have another ice scraper.

...

And, the final reasons why no one would bother with any of the above:
The internet:
As soona s you start selling a means to do this, it will be ripped off. Unless you program every card individually (high, high risk), you'll find out how quickly a serial logger can open "encrypted" WinExplorer scripts. And as soon as someone figures out your bug, it will be on EVERY dss site within an hour. If you make custom hardware, it will be reverse engineered, since your security budget is less than DTV's....

and ... the long arm of the law..

If someone decided to be a hero, and hacked the P4, and found a bug, and released the activation, and got jack**** for it... well, you'd have free TV until someone turns you in for a hefty reward (contact signal integrity for details of the reward program), ruins your life with court cases, jail and restitution.. And the bahamas do have extradition treaties with the united states..

The conclusion of all this --
Enjoy dish while it lasts. The sun is setting on the pirate era, and soon you will be paying even more for less.

this was posted many moons ago and there are many who can attest to the validity aside from the One DU has mentioned...

[hondoharry]

Very interesting read but not sure the president of DTV wrote it himself as the byline implies.

[Glatt]

Dave running now on IPTV

[ftanewbie]

Dave running now on IPTV

well at least u posted this in the right section:tehe:

[ftanewbie]

Well if it is true it's not going to end well for who ever has the bells big enough to try it,JMO,LOL.

hey never underestimate the power of money and greed.:grr:

[Midnight Rider]

Very interesting read but not sure the president of DTV wrote it himself as the byline implies.


Nothing was Implied. Google is your friend ! :cool:

[jedi]

well at least u posted this in the right section:tehe:

They may be streaming some channels from a legal DirecTV receiver - if not now I'm sure somebody will throw some channels into the stream.

[ftanewbie]

They may be streaming some channels from a legal DirecTV receiver - if not now I'm sure somebody will throw some channels into the stream.

my opinion is if they start doing that.... IPTV will not be around for to long.

[jedi]

my opinion is if they start doing that.... IPTV will not be around for to long.
How are they going to know what your are streaming from. If you are watching HBO - it doesn't matter if you stream it from a legal DirecTV receiver, a Bell receiver, Dish Network receiver, cable or maybe even from HBO directly on the internet or overseas. It would be pretty hard for them to find the source of the stream.
IMO IPTV is going to be the death of satellite TV.

[Gates07]

well for all the b/s about not being able to get free tv with a P4 card i have one that does, it only gets porn, came from a garage sale so someone know how to program them, not me for sure, so i don't even keep it plugged in, i plug it in every once and awhile just to see if it still works, it does. and if these cable company get thier way and merge iptv will be just as expensive or more then folks will pay.

[ftanewbie]

well for all the b/s about not being able to get free tv with a P4 card i have one that does, it only gets porn, came from a garage sale so someone know how to program them, not me for sure, so i don't even keep it plugged in, i plug it in every once and awhile just to see if it still works, it does. and if these cable company get thier way and merge iptv will be just as expensive or more then folks will pay.

hows that even possible DTV swap out does cards long ago?

[tubbs]

I still have my Dave Magnavox IRD.

Bought it at a place called Service Merchandise

[Gates07]

i made a mistake its the blue P-5 card, i'll plug it in in a couple of days and see if i can get a picture.

[BiffBr549]

I have 3 access card 4, and I do believe 3 P5's 2 of them virgins

[ftanewbie]

How are they going to know what your are streaming from. If you are watching HBO - it doesn't matter if you stream it from a legal DirecTV receiver, a Bell receiver, Dish Network receiver, cable or maybe even from HBO directly on the internet or overseas. It would be pretty hard for them to find the source of the stream.
IMO IPTV is going to be the death of satellite TV.

im talking about if they begain to stream down their entire channel list and DTV pockets start getting light because a lot of their costumers start flipping to IPTV....i almost 100% sure that will not last to long. DTV has some real mean lawyers.

[Anubis]

im talking about if they begain to stream down their entire channel list and DTV pockets start getting light because a lot of their costumers start flipping to IPTV....i almost 100% sure that will not last to long. DTV has some real mean lawyers.

They don't have mean lawyers, just legal assassins.:D

[Highwayman]

I pmed Moderator1 and asked about dave testing and asked if they were using the newcamd protocol
he said they tried but this was his answer.

"We are using 2 different ccams but we can only set up dave with ird older receivers d10 d12 hd so on so if you have one of those yes you can connect.."

He at first was asking to sign up as a VIP for a low price for a year to test FOR UNSPECIFIED TIME
but in another pm he is asking for a monthly fee at a little more than nfps or rocket as well.
Off hand i dont think those older irds do hd.

Personally i have not been testing this so dont know how true it is!!!
Judge for yourself and plz dont shoot the messenger unless its HAMBURGERS.....

[ftanewbie]

sounds like a scam all the way:rolleyes:

[TheMaritimer]

community project: we'll all (well a few of us) pitch a dollar each to someone with the hardware requirements (an old IRD) to try it out. if it works, then we know - if not, then boo hoo we're out a dollar and everyone knows it's a scam.

that being said, i find it hard to believe someone has the smarts to crack DTV, but not the smarts to set up a proper message board LOL

[dishuser]

community project: we'll all (well a few of us) pitch a dollar each to someone with the hardware requirements (an old IRD) to try it out. if it works, then we know - if not, then boo hoo we're out a dollar and everyone knows it's a scam.

that being said, i find it hard to believe someone has the smarts to crack DTV, but not the smarts to set up a proper message board LOLno need to call yourself stupid...lol

[jvvh5897]

It would hardly be a "crack" of DTV, all you need to do is put a box's card on an interface board and communicate with it from the outside to send it the info needed to get out the current channel keys needed--maybe a little decryption if they use the box key when feeding the keys back to box. The PC only has to package the key and send it to you and get the channel request from you--both simple tasks.
I think it an easy project. A little logging, a little playing and there you have it. Heck one mod I did on a DRD420 box was to have the comms sent to the card captured in RAM for me to download via jtag port--I bet with a little work one could even set up a serial port on the box (some do have one or a spot where you could impliment one) and eliminate the need for a interface board.
HD box might be a lot harder, but SD, I think, would be easy. Old processors that we know lots about, checksums that we can compute, code that we could compile with tools that public, room in the flash.

[tubbs]

It would hardly be a "crack" of DTV, all you need to do is put a box's card on an interface board and communicate with it from the outside to send it the info needed to get out the current channel keys needed--maybe a little decryption if they use the box key when feeding the keys back to box. The PC only has to package the key and send it to you and get the channel request from you--both simple tasks.
I think it an easy project. A little logging, a little playing and there you have it. Heck one mod I did on a DRD420 box was to have the comms sent to the card captured in RAM for me to download via jtag port--I bet with a little work one could even set up a serial port on the box (some do have one or a spot where you could impliment one) and eliminate the need for a interface board.
HD box might be a lot harder, but SD, I think, would be easy. Old processors that we know lots about, checksums that we can compute, code that we could compile with tools that public, room in the flash.

NOW THAT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT........Go get R done!

[ftanewbie]

he sure makes it sound easy:thumbsup:

[ChillyWilly]

Good points JVVH. The original DN hack was a stand-alone. When the new cards came out and were not hacked, the switch was made to iks. They stayed with dish because they were familiar with it, but as JVVH points out, iks for for Direct is equally possible. The one problem I see is that Direct uses their own unique protocol. Any pirate box using this protocol would have no purpose other than to pirate tv, and would be declared illegal IMHO...... think ihub....

[Nostradamus]

no different than a box supporting turbo 8psk

[jvvh5897]

I'm sorry but as has been pointed out many times, there are many FTA boxes that have the hardware to do DTV, they just don'thave the software setup to do so. The sw changes needed (if you ignore the guide data and channel info needed) are pretty small in those boxes that have sti5518 processors and many of the common tuner chips (coolsat4000, pansat 2500 or 2700, digiwave 7000, a number of the strong models just to name a few). And there are a number of older DTV boxes that might be used if you figure out how the card would need to be emulated or interfaced. Some of the newer SD DTV boxes use Broadcom chips, but some have Conextant inside and we do have some info on that type of chip--none are likely to be jtaggable.
I'm not sure why you guys haven't started a project to explore the idea in the advanced section here, or in some place hard to spider. As I have done work with the DRD420, I have a bit of info that could be of help (much of the info was posted at id site while I was doing the MPG workaround and parallel posted at dss rookie as that was where the question was asked if a workaround was possible ).

[TheMaritimer]

I think we can also learn a lot from the Europeans, who have done CS with nearly identical platforms in most of Europe and even elsewhere across the pond. That being said, I'm wary of the fact that Dave takes a swift reactionary measure when certain things become public.

[ftanewbie]

i dont think DTV IKS will ever last....they will drop the hammer on it right away. i hope so but i dont think so:rolleyes:

[henpecked]

These posts are good for passing time..But, we all know , any one with a half a brain wouldn't touch anything to do with Direct.

[jvvh5897]

Well, half a brain!!! I'm not sure that any of us have as much as half a brain. Tons of us should be set to contribute!

[tubbs]

Well, I'm not worried about DTV.
I don't own anything and I owe over 300K in Medical bills right now.
DTV can stand behind the doctors and hospitals to collect from me.
So, I'm not afraid of the big bad wolf.... And anyhow, I'm not a coder. I can barley get my VCR programmed.

BUT I do think they are worried, and am very interested on what they are going to do about their newest troubles.

They thought they had problems when the coders were able to crack the"F" cards then the "H" card.they addressed that problem.
Then came the boxes where you could just download a bin off the internet for TV service... Thats gone.
Then come IKS. Seems that they are in the work to shut that down too.

But Now. We have something new called IPTV.
I would imagine in a year every third person you know will have some sort or brand of IPTV box on top of their TV
And in a year I would have to believe every other IPTV box will be receiving copyrighted programming without some sort of legit payment.
I can't beleve all the channel and movies I can recieve right now.. and I have no subscription or donation connected to the box.

SO
Who we will be up against is the Federal Government representing big business....again, like
DTV-Charlie- Time Warner-Comcast- Bright House- Verision- ATT and so on....

Good luck to you free TV..there is going to be a war.....

I just want my radio spectrum back that was given to the american people in 1933!

[henpecked]

Well, half a brain!!! I'm not sure that any of us have as much as half a brain. Tons of us should be set to contribute!

Well jvvh, I know what YOU can do..I've followed your trail in this game...Don't know if you'd get enough people to chip in their time and knowledge unless there was a profit in there...Not many hobbyists left ..You make hacking Direct sound easy...on paper maybe..keeping your "flock' of hobbyists together to see a positive ending might be tough...And if you do end up with any kind of hack/work around, who would touch it...It would have to be done for self gratification.

[jvvh5897]

Why think that I'm going to be involved? I've done my bit for the hobby. I don't do IKS in any form and never have--and would not do so with a DTV IKS.

[henpecked]

You're right..
I read too much into your post
So, I go back to my original post.."any one with a half a brain wouldn't touch anything to do with Direct."


Why think that I'm going to be involved? I've done my bit for the hobby. I don't do IKS in any form and never have--and would not do so with a DTV IKS.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

Well, I'm not worried about DTV.
I don't own anything and I owe over 300K in Medical bills right now.
DTV can stand behind the doctors and hospitals to collect from me.
So, I'm not afraid of the big bad wolf.... And anyhow, I'm not a coder. I can barley get my VCR programmed.

BUT I do think they are worried, and am very interested on what they are going to do about their newest troubles.

They thought they had problems when the coders were able to crack the"F" cards then the "H" card.they addressed that problem.
Then came the boxes where you could just download a bin off the internet for TV service... Thats gone.
Then come IKS. Seems that they are in the work to shut that down too.

But Now. We have something new called IPTV.
I would imagine in a year every third person you know will have some sort or brand of IPTV box on top of their TV
And in a year I would have to believe every other IPTV box will be receiving copyrighted programming without some sort of legit payment.
I can't beleve all the channel and movies I can recieve right now.. and I have no subscription or donation connected to the box.

SO
Who we will be up against is the Federal Government representing big business....again, like
DTV-Charlie- Time Warner-Comcast- Bright House- Verision- ATT and so on....

Good luck to you free TV..there is going to be a war.....

I just want my radio spectrum back that was given to the american people in 1933!



Sorry to hear that, come to Canada where you wait but don't pay.



GS2

[tubbs]

Sorry to hear that, come to Canada where you wait but don't pay.



GS2

I love Canada.... A LOT!
As a kid, we would see our relatives in Toronto.
Spent a lot summer vacation time with Mom & Dad in Sault Ste. Marie area.
When we would go to Detroit, we always stayed in Winsor... Detroit was too dirty!

I live in Florida now......know why? I hate the cold...

But it's like being in Canada in the winter down in the town that I live in.. All the Canadian "SNOW BIRDS" come down here for the winter,
Some of my best friends are now back up in Canada... can't wait to see them in the winter.

[Blazerbong]

Well one thing I love about DTV is the Girl with the white talking Horse Commercial!If only I was that Horse I would take things to another limit!
As for DTV IKS,I doubt it will happen.

[tubbs]

Well one thing I love about DTV is the Girl with the white talking Horse Commercial!If only I was that Horse I would take things to another limit!
As for DTV IKS,I doubt it will happen.

Well, Maybe I got a chance... since i'm hung like a horse!:tehe:

[buddy b]

Lol, I think that the girl in the dtv ad, hanna, is sharpening derik jeeters stick! Lol but she sure is hot!!!

[Highwayman]

Well, Maybe I got a chance... since i'm hung like a horse!:tehe:Stay away from the goat she's mine!

[jazzman]

This is all very funny but how did we go from new iks to girls and animals??? :noidea::offtopic1:

[Marcella]

This is all very funny but how did we go from new iks to girls and animals??? :noidea::offtopic1:

Sky Mex and its how its done might be of interest to those interested in David. instead of animals

[lorelys]

yes but sky mexico is in sd p3 no hd , that is why only sd ,the hd they have the card in p5 an this is from mexico forum, they try it but to much frezind my friend

[ftanewbie]

well they best come up with something soon....channel 306 showing u the message Attention Required for your service not to be interrupted please call 800-333-Dish:rolleyes: