View Full Version : PayPal Issues
maird57
02-08-2017, 03:56 AM
Seems like PayPal is playing hardball. Lots of accounts are getting permanently limited without just cause. They will not tell you why. They say that they will release the funds after 180 days. I heard that a lot of them don't get their money back. I've now switched over to Payza. So far I found them easy to use and they are similar to PayPal. JMO
Travis Bickle
02-09-2017, 03:52 AM
I'm surprised people still donate by Paypal since they won't hesitate to disclose their identities to other parties who have an itchy legal trigger finger. Bitcoin or Prepaid Credit Cards are the way to go.
PayPal is a ripoff - I cant believe anyone in our hobby is still using them.
Prepaid credit cards are exposing the people you pay - so not a good alternative in my opinion - why not learn how to use bitcoins - it is the safest way to go and easy - once you have tried it once you will wonder why you ever used anything else
Mr Hanky
02-09-2017, 12:32 PM
PayPal is a ripoff - I cant believe anyone in our hobby is still using them.
Prepaid credit cards are exposing the people you pay - so not a good alternative in my opinion - why not learn how to use bitcoins - it is the safest way to go and easy - once you have tried it once you will wonder why you ever used anything elsePrepaid Vanilla cards have no attachment or registration to a name etc.
Travis Bickle
02-09-2017, 03:01 PM
Prepaid Vanilla cards have no attachment or registration to a name etc.
Jedi means that although the donation giver can use any fake names or such on a Prepaid CC, the receiver of those funds doesn't have the luxury of concealing their identity.
Prepaid Vanilla cards have no attachment or registration to a name etc.
they do to the person who is going to process said card.
ssprod
02-09-2017, 08:50 PM
What kind of service fees are associated with Bitcoins?
the highest fee i have ever seen for a bitcoin transaction was around .08 cents that was on a 30k transaction
kenkell1
02-11-2017, 06:40 AM
bitcoin is also under the gun to release info so don't think they are any safer....
dishuser
02-11-2017, 10:50 AM
bitcoin is also under the gun to release info so don't think they are any safer....
they still don't know who owns it
Mr Hanky
02-11-2017, 01:12 PM
they do to the person who is going to process said card.E mail only to receive your donation and send mac. That's all the seller would have on you , and that can be a fake setup from anywhere.
E mail only to receive your donation and send mac. That's all the seller would have on you , and that can be a fake setup from anywhere.
You as the buyer can safely use a prepaid credit card because there is no trace back to you. But the point you are missing is that it is not safe for the guy that is selling you the service - he somehow has to process the transaction to get the money from your card and that may leave a trail right to his front door. If they catch him then there is a good chance that he is going to rollover on all his clients and give the investigators whatever info they want. The guy that is selling the service to you may not know who you are because you used a prepaid credit card that is not traceable back to you - but you are using his IPTV or IKS service so he has your IP address and that could lead them straight to your front door.
This is just the simplified version explaining why it can be dangerous to use a prepaid credit card - I left out a few of the steps explaining how the Provider's investigators use the info from credit cards to track down the resellers - but the main point is that bitcoin is safer than credit cards for BOTH the buyer and the seller - so why not use it?
I made a post a little earlier explaining how investigators can use credit card transaction info to trace a reseller - in that post I made up some fake FSLB log files info about Mr Hanky and some other phoney info about IP addresses, channels being watched and so on to show what could happen if the investigators could get there hands on a real FSLB log file. I also made up some fake info about a credit card transaction to show how investigators can and have used it to trace resellers.
This was all fake info I used - it was NOT showing Mr Hankys or anybody's real IP address - it was all made up to show both resellers and end users how to protect themselves.
There are some credit card processors that resellers should not be using to collect their money - so I think they should also know who they are and the dangers in using them.
My post was deleted and I don't have a problem with that - I just wanted to say that it was all fake info and I'm sorry if some thought I was actually posting real IP addresses of some members here.
skater
02-11-2017, 08:25 PM
i have said once on here before that if your still concerned with bitcoins you can go one step further and send your coins to say
torrwallet.com
and have them anonymized then send to your re seller from that fake account then there is even less likely of a trail back to you.
but of course there is always a small fee for that service but its not much
pays to be safer
Thanks skater,
I tried to use that torwallet.com site - but for some reason they keep saying I have to confirm my email address - I'll have to try again.
Looks like a nice service they have - they say they do NOT keep any IP logs they so couldn't help any investigators or agency that came looking for info.
You are right - you can never be too safe - these investigators for the Providers will crawl down any damn rabbit hole or sewer they see trying to find the resellers and IKS/IPTV operators. Don't give those guys a paper trail to follow and we will all be safer.
Mr Hanky
02-11-2017, 10:50 PM
I made a post a little earlier explaining how investigators can use credit card transaction info to trace a reseller - in that post I made up some fake FSLB log files info about Mr Hanky and some other phoney info about IP addresses, channels being watched and so on to show what could happen if the investigators could get there hands on a real FSLB log file. I also made up some fake info about a credit card transaction to show how investigators can and have used it to trace resellers.
This was all fake info I used - it was NOT showing Mr Hankys or anybody's real IP address - it was all made up to show both resellers and end users how to protect themselves.
There are some credit card processors that resellers should not be using to collect their money - so I think they should also know who they are and the dangers in using them.
My post was deleted and I don't have a problem with that - I just wanted to say that it was all fake info and I'm sorry if some thought I was actually posting real IP addresses of some members here.Who's talking about resellers if you use a reseller you chances of getting pinched increase tenfold. Its a fact they all make a mistake somewhere along the line then cooperate with the boys to get themselves off. Use your nick when you want to associate one with resellers.
kenkell1
02-12-2017, 12:04 AM
they still don't know who owns it
Martti Malmi is a good start for a name but bitcoin is controlled by all bitcoin users around the world.
Lets not forget that the largest Bitcoin wallet on the internet is owned by the US Government and this happened after the FBI shut down Silk Road and started seizing Ross Ulbricht bitcoins who they say was the owner of the market place.
Never say never......
Martti Malmi is a good start for a name but bitcoin is controlled by all bitcoin users around the world.
Lets not forget that the largest Bitcoin wallet on the internet is owned by the US Government and this happened after the FBI shut down Silk Road and started seizing Ross Ulbricht bitcoins who they say was the owner of the market place.
Never say never......
Yes bitcoin is owned and controlled by everyone in the world that owns a wallet or mines for bitcoins - there is no one owner there are hundreds of millions of owners. You do not even have to own bitcoins to see every transaction that has ever occurred on bitcoin since day one. Every send and receive transaction is there - recorded for everyone in the world to see - and it will be there forever. But all they will see is that bitcoin address kajduer^^dôifjjfieinjmfjfjfjkdkd sent .01345 bitcoins to bitcoin address abckdkeirfijutyu665YRthdhdh. Those bitcoin wallets could have a fake name, email address and phone number associated with them - so the only person in the world that knows who owns those wallets is the owner of those wallets.
I will give you a bitcoin wallet address and will give you $1,000,000 if you can tell me the real identity of the person that owns that wallet. It is impossible and if you understood how bitcoins works - you wouldn't even try.
Here is a real bitcoin address: 0x0e7c78e97f7D31DC1A9edC71d0B7fd93fE3904DE
There is no way anyone can tell me - including the Providers' best investigators - any information about that bitcoin wallet. No one has a clue who owns it - not their name, not their phone number - not there email address and not their IP address.
So if I sent some bitcoins to that address - it would be impossible to find that person.
On the other hand if I bought a prepaid credit card and bought something - say some IKS/IPTV credits - I can log into my prepaid credit card account and see who that money went to. It may not have went directly to somebody's bank account - but there is going to be some sort of paper trail. The guy I paid had to process that transaction somehow - he just doesn't magically get the cash in his hand because I gave him my credit card info. He has to have some sort of an arrangement with someone to get his money. That paper trail could lead back eventually to the guy I paid and the guy doing the tracking could be the Providers' investigators.
kenkell1
02-12-2017, 01:49 AM
Yes bitcoin is owned and controlled by everyone in the world that owns a wallet or mines for bitcoins - there is no one owner there are hundreds of millions of owners. You do not even have to own bitcoins to see every transaction that has ever occurred on bitcoin since day one. Every send and receive transaction is there - recorded for everyone in the world to see - and it will be there forever. But all they will see is that bitcoin address kajduer^^dôifjjfieinjmfjfjfjkdkd sent .01345 bitcoins to bitcoin address abckdkeirfijutyu665YRthdhdh. Those bitcoin wallets could have a fake name, email address and phone number associated with them - so the only person in the world that knows who owns those wallets is the owner of those wallets.
I will give you a bitcoin wallet address and will give you $1,000,000 if you can tell me the real identity of the person that owns that wallet. It is impossible and if you understood how bitcoins works - you wouldn't even try.
Here is a real bitcoin address: 0x0e7c78e97f7D31DC1A9edC71d0B7fd93fE3904DE
There is no way anyone can tell me - including the Providers' best investigators - any information about that bitcoin wallet. No one has a clue who owns it - not their name, not their phone number - not there email address and not their IP address.
So if I sent some bitcoins to that address - it would be impossible to find that person.
On the other hand if I bought a prepaid credit card and bought something - say some IKS/IPTV credits - I can log into my prepaid credit card account and see who that money went to. It may not have went directly to somebody's bank account - but there is going to be some sort of paper trail. The guy I paid had to process that transaction somehow - he just doesn't magically get the cash in his hand because I gave him my credit card info. He has to have some sort of an arrangement with someone to get his money. That paper trail could lead back eventually to the guy I paid and the guy doing the tracking could be the Providers' investigators.
I'm not disagreeing that bitcoin is effective to a certain point BUT remember; If man made it man can break it, steal it and swindle it. It's a decentralized currency that is a whole lot better than paypal....for sure.
I'm not disagreeing that bitcoin is effective to a certain point BUT remember; If man made it man can break it, steal it and swindle it. It's a decentralized currency that is a whole lot better than paypal....for sure.
You got that one right kenkell - PayPal sucks big time - I hate those guys LOL
kenkell1
02-12-2017, 04:34 AM
You got that one right kenkell - PayPal sucks big time - I hate those guys LOL
we could always pool our bitcoins together and buy out paypal lol.....
we could always pool our bitcoins together and buy out paypal lol.....
You must have a lot more bitcoins than me kenkell LOL
I belonged to an underground DreamBox site a long time ago - eYe the old coder was there and guys like gen0sauve and other very good coders and bin image makers for DreamBox.
Back then everyone was worried about getting caught - so we had to use a private VPN server to log in and some guys were using bitcoins to buy IKS and 3M card codes. It was just at the start of bitcoins. A friend of mine at the site helped me set up a bitcoin account and sent me a few bitcoins for helping him with some 3M codes - I can't remember how many - maybe $10 or $20 worth of bitcoins. I didn't really understand back then how they worked. I remember writing down my bitcoin address in a notebook - it was a long complicated number and was with the blockchain. Back then 1 bitcoin was worth a couple of pennies so I may have had 1000, 2000 or more bitcoins. I don't think I ever figured out how to send anyone bitcoins to buy a service - so I'm pretty sure I have a dormant bitcoin wallet that may have some old bitcoins in it.
Since bitcoins were recently worth $1000 for 1 bitcoin I could be sitting on $1 million dollars or more - one of these days I am going to tear my house apart and look for that notebook with my wallet address. I am a bit of a pack rat - just ask my wife LOL - it has to be around here somewhere or in a storage locker with all my other files.
Mr Hanky
02-12-2017, 02:02 PM
For those who have PM'ed me for "IKS@IPTV" information, clear you mail box so I can send you jedi's information. duh
Not all resellers are bad guys - we have had a few bad apples here that have rolled over and given information to investigators in exchange for more lenient penalties. There are also a few that have grabbed our money and disappeared into the darkness and then on occasion reappear under a new nick to grab some more money from us. They always say that the Providers were closing in on them and that they had to close up shop to protect us LOL.
But there are some good resellers here that respect their end users and actually do the right things to protect themselves and their end users. Some IKS/IPTV end users see all resellers as greedy b*sta*ds that deserve to get caught - so why should we try to protect them???
Every end user should do everything in their power to protect the resellers so that they don't get caught and rollover on us the end users. By using credit cards and PayPal there is a slight chance that the Providers' investigators could see the paper trail that these payments leave when they are processed. I am NOT talking about them following any payment you made. I am talking about the investigators buying credits with their credit cards and then following that paper trail. They can not follow your transaction because you own that credit card - but they can follow all the transaction info for the credit cards that they own and used to purchase credits.
If the investigators find the resellers and ultimately get to the server log files - then we the end users pay the penalty.
Bitcoins may seem like a bit of an inconvenience at first - but they leave no paper trail whatsoever - do it to protect your reseller - and in the long run you are actually doing it to protect yourself.
Sorry to keep harping on this Bitcoin thing - but for me it is a very important issue. Some very good friends of mine were caught by the investigators and the people that were processing their credit card payments for them was used to find them and as evidence against them. They refuse to cooperate with the investigators and now they are paying a very high price for their actions.
There are some credit card processors that resellers should never use because they cooperate with the Providers' investigators - just because they are offshore does not mean they are safe to use.
There are some good resellers here that use prepaid credit cards and I trust that they have some safe way to process their transactions. There may be some new resellers here that do not realize the danger in processing their credit card payments - they don't know which processors to avoid. That is where the danger lies.
I posted a few lines of some information from a very old FSLB log file for IKS south to show end users what the investigators can see if they get their hands on a server's log file. This was not some stolen or leaked log file - and had nothing to do with any end user or reseller here. Instead of the actual IP addresses that were in the log files I made up some IP addresses and used them - I also changed the name of the User IDs and inserted Mr Hanky's nick and a couple other members' nicks that were following this thread. I also changed the dates and times.
I did that to show what can happen when a reseller gets caught.
Most end users have never seen an FSLB log file before and have no idea what information is in it. These log files are humongous and capture every second of what the end user is doing on the server. Once you've seen a few lines of one you will see how dangerous they are and hopefully do everything you can to make sure your name and IP address is never in one.
ah yes going down memory lane with eYe and geno thoes were fun times.
ah yes going down memory lane with eYe and geno thoes were fun times.
Yep those were good days - there was a lot of talent there.
Raton Craquero was there and was developing his private version of his rqcs and rqcamd software and when he started selling his FLSB and EMM/ECM software to dealers a lot of the guys that didn't like anybody making a buck on anything started b*tchin and moanin and it wasn't long before Raton departed the group.
Soon after the plastic guys and the DreamBox guys were quarreling and parted ways - some going to Team3M and some staying with gen0
Some of the guys are still around at different forums
i don't think there will ever be group like that. and that florida meet up was awesome met alot of good peeps there.
i don't think there will ever be group like that. and that florida meet up was awesome met alot of good peeps there.
At Pete & Shorty's ??? LOL
yes at pete & shorty's. jib,zap, and few others were there also. no CB tho
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