How to expand mu wifi range???

[Mavrick]

Hi all, need some help from all you wifi experts as I'm trying to reach some OPEN wifi hotspots in a mall a few blocks away from my place. I have a 16dbi 6"x6" pannel antenna and also purchased a 4w signal booster from ebay but the booster only amps what I was already seeing and did not expand my range at all to reach the hotspots. Do I need a bigger antenna or is there something else I can try?
Also, how does the small antenna inside my smartphone reach the cell tower 2 miles away but my 6" wifi pannel antenna can't reach 3 blocks?
Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.

[nobodyspecial]

long range cantenna?
https://jacobsalmela.com/2013/09/07/wi-fi-cantenna-2-4ghz-how-to-make-a-long-range-wi-fi-antenna/

[Terryl]

Your going to need some TX power to reach out that far from your location, a panel antenna is good for receiving but does nothing for transmitting, a yagi antenna with some good gain both ways would work better.

What I have used in the past is an Alpha 2 watt WIFI device, (see link below) connected to a yagi antenna, all this mounted in a water tight box right at the antenna, also used was a USB to CAT 5 adapter with POE.


https://www.amazon.com/High-Gain-Long-Rang-Alfa-9dBi-Mount/dp/B0038Q4AIG

Or you can use active USB extension cables to reach the outside mast with the USB alpha inside the WT box.

[Terryl]

long range cantenna?
https://jacobsalmela.com/2013/09/07/wi-fi-cantenna-2-4ghz-how-to-make-a-long-range-wi-fi-antenna/ Cantenna's work OK for RX but do nothing for TX, they do not provide any gain.

[Terryl]

Hi all, need some help from all you wifi experts as I'm trying to reach some OPEN wifi hotspots in a mall a few blocks away from my place. I have a 16dbi 6"x6" pannel antenna and also purchased a 4w signal booster from ebay but the booster only amps what I was already seeing and did not expand my range at all to reach the hotspots. Do I need a bigger antenna or is there something else I can try?
Also, how does the small antenna inside my smartphone reach the cell tower 2 miles away but my 6" wifi pannel antenna can't reach 3 blocks?
Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.It's all about RX antenna gain and amplification at the cell site and TX power back to your phone.

And the small coax (thinner then a pencil) used to connect your WIFI device to the panel antenna is dropping your signal by at least 20 dB or more, the shorter you can make this connection the better, or use better coax.(I'm guessing that your using the coax that came with the WIFI device)

[Mavrick]

It's all about RX antenna gain and amplification at the cell site and TX power back to your phone.

And the small coax (thinner then a pencil) used to connect your WIFI device to the panel antenna is dropping your signal by at least 20 dB or more, the shorter you can make this connection the better, or use better coax.(I'm guessing that your using the coax that came with the WIFI device)

Thanks guys,
Actually the panel antenna had the usb wifi card integrated into the unit so the coax connecting the two was only about 3" long, then it had a 15' usb cable back to my computer. I think the integrated usb wifi card is putting out some power but I'm guessing it's only 1 watt if that as there is no separate power source for the card (just what comes threw the usb cable), that is why I tried the 4-watt signal booster but with no luck. I do have a 23" yagi antenna, it has a 3' coax cable integrated into it, I have tried it in the past with just a regular (un-powered) usb wifi adapter and didn't get much range with it which is why I stayed with the panel antenna, maybe the yagi needs the 2 watt powered card you pointed out to work properly, or maybe a bigger yagi?

[Mavrick]

So what size of yagi were you using with that Alfa card Terryand what rage did you get with it? If wifi (and cell) range are based on the TX power are there any other wifi cards that you know of that are more powerfull than that 2w Alfa, maybe something 3 or 4 watts of power?

[Terryl]

2 watts is the upper limit on unlicensed WIFI, I got about 3 miles on the yagi/Alpha setup.

And this is the one I used, it's compatible with the Alpha unit, they also have extension cables, but I mounted mine outside in a water tight box..


http://www.technorv.com/Long_Range_WiFi_Yagi_Antenna_p/wfb-yagi.htm

You can also use a small TV antenna rotor, this will give you some searching capabilities.

[zelig]

wok lid with tape criss cross across the opening and mount a small antenna strip to the center.
I had a magnetic base antenna and took the guts out to mount.
or a small dtv dish on a tripod and a magnetic base antenna stuck to the lnb arm.
That is the setup in my attic.

[dishuser]

2 watts is the upper limit on unlicensed WIFI, I got about 3 miles on the yagi/Alpha setup.

And this is the one I used, it's compatible with the Alpha unit, they also have extension cables, but I mounted mine outside in a water tight box..


http://www.technorv.com/Long_Range_WiFi_Yagi_Antenna_p/wfb-yagi.htm

You can also use a small TV antenna rotor, this will give you some searching capabilities.
that's the one I have
worx great

[Terryl]

Ihave modified two "C" band dish's for WIFI and got over 15 miles. (top of two hills)

[Mavrick]

wok lid with tape criss cross across the opening and mount a small antenna strip to the center.
I had a magnetic base antenna and took the guts out to mount.
or a small dtv dish on a tripod and a magnetic base antenna stuck to the lnb arm.
That is the setup in my attic.

I tried using a 36" dish and replaced where the LNB sits with my 6x6 panel antenna but it didn't work very well, I think you need to point at a tower or something with direct line-of-site for this kind of antenna to work well.

[Mavrick]

2 watts is the upper limit on unlicensed WIFI, I got about 3 miles on the yagi/Alpha setup.

And this is the one I used, it's compatible with the Alpha unit, they also have extension cables, but I mounted mine outside in a water tight box..


http://www.technorv.com/Long_Range_WiFi_Yagi_Antenna_p/wfb-yagi.htm

You can also use a small TV antenna rotor, this will give you some searching capabilities.

Wow, 3 miles, I would love to get that. That Yagi is the exact one I have, like I said I tried it with some (un-powered) usb wifi adapters but it didn't work very well, maybe it needs a powered card like the Alfa. Are you pointing to a tower Terry or just in the general direction of the AP's? I will get the 2-watt Alfa and also use the 4-watt booster and see what that does.

[tubbs]

WoW now thats somthing!!

[Terryl]

Wow, 3 miles, I would love to get that. That Yagi is the exact one I have, like I said I tried it with some (un-powered) usb wifi adapters but it didn't work very well, maybe it needs a powered card like the Alfa. Are you pointing to a tower Terry or just in the general direction of the AP's? I will get the 2-watt Alfa and also use the 4-watt booster and see what that does.

I had two of these setups pointing at each other, one was a dual antenna type router, the other was a PC with the USB extension cables, they had line of sight, so there was no problems with reception.

You got to remember that WIFI is a two way street, you can put up a very big antenna to receive the signals, but you need to get your signal back to the other end, most of these add on high gain antennas have too much signal loss coming back in from the device in your computer.

Most WIFI devices are only 200 to 600 milli watts at best, and that is right at the output of the device, the thin coax used is very lossey at 2.5 or 5 GHz and anything over 10 feet is a waist of any increase of gain provided by any add on antenna.

This is why I used the Alpha mounted in a water tight box as close to the antenna as possible, you also need to have direct line of sight for the best reception, stuff like buildings, trees and TV antennas in the way will knock the signals down to nothing.

This is why it's best to mount it as high as you can.

The setups I used had CAT5/6 USB to LAN interfaces, also POE for running the Alpha in the WT box, this way the loss was kept to a minimum, one setup I even used a DC powered two port USB hub, this was powered at the WT box, this way the USB Alpha interface had plenty of juice to run at the maximum power, this way I didn't need the POE injector in the setup.

[Mavrick]

I had two of these setups pointing at each other, one was a dual antenna type router, the other was a PC with the USB extension cables, they had line of sight, so there was no problems with reception.

You got to remember that WIFI is a two way street, you can put up a very big antenna to receive the signals, but you need to get your signal back to the other end, most of these add on high gain antennas have too much signal loss coming back in from the device in your computer.

Most WIFI devices are only 200 to 600 milli watts at best, and that is right at the output of the device, the thin coax used is very lossey at 2.5 or 5 GHz and anything over 10 feet is a waist of any increase of gain provided by any add on antenna.

This is why I used the Alpha mounted in a water tight box as close to the antenna as possible, you also need to have direct line of sight for the best reception, stuff like buildings, trees and TV antennas in the way will knock the signals down to nothing.

This is why it's best to mount it as high as you can.

The setups I used had CAT5/6 USB to LAN interfaces, also POE for running the Alpha in the WT box, this way the loss was kept to a minimum, one setup I even used a DC powered two port USB hub, this was powered at the WT box, this way the USB Alpha interface had plenty of juice to run at the maximum power, this way I didn't need the POE injector in the setup.

Ok, I can also mount the Alfa in a WT box up at the antenna so the only coax is the built-in 3' cable from the Yagi to the alfa, then I have a 20' (special) usb from the alfa to my computer. Do you think the 20' USB cable will still supply the 2wats of power up to the Alfa? Hopefully it will do the job, I will test the setup with both the Yagi and my 6" x 6" panel antenna and post my results. I'm in a bi-level house so I can mount the antenna about 30' in the air and go over top most obstacles. What are you using for your wifi connection manager on your computer? I'm finding I need some 3rd party software to show all the AP's that I'm trying to connect too, the stock windows 7 wifi manager only shows the top 15 or-so ap's.

[Terryl]

Try this one.


http://www.netsetman.com/en/wifi-wlan-manager

And can you use a shorter cable then the 3 footer???

The shorter the better.

My ISP uses a 5 GHz WIFI antenna with the modem built right into the antenna.

And there is another way to do this, you use one of the Hawking Technology range extenders mounted outside, all it needs is power, you can connect the Yagi antenna to one of it's antenna ports, and your set, it picks up your WIFI through one antenna and repeats it to the access point through the Yagi antenna.


https://hawkingtech.com/product/howabn1/

[Mavrick]

Try this one.


http://www.netsetman.com/en/wifi-wlan-manager

And can you use a shorter cable then the 3 footer???

The shorter the better.

My ISP uses a 5 GHz WIFI antenna with the modem built right into the antenna.

And there is another way to do this, you use one of the Hawking Technology range extenders mounted outside, all it needs is power, you can connect the Yagi antenna to one of it's antenna ports, and your set, it picks up your WIFI through one antenna and repeats it to the access point through the Yagi antenna.


https://hawkingtech.com/product/howabn1/


The 3' cable is built in to the Yagi so I would have to tear it apart to make it shorter, I don't think I want to do that. I have seen those Hawkingtech repeaters but I don't think I want to create a hotspot, I would rather stay hard wired from the antenna right to my pc for now.

[Mavrick]

Well, I thought I would update my progress. I purchased the Alfa 2watt wifi adapter and connected it to the 23" yagi antenna, put it up on the roof with line-of-site and sadly it never even came close to seeing the hotspot, and it's exactly 0.237 miles away, bummer :(

[Terryl]

How did you run/connect the adapter to the yagi???? Explain the setup......

In one application I had to put mine in a water tight box and use a 10 inch cable to get the power needed.

And 1200 feet is nothing for the Alpha unit, you might even not need the yagi, I have one connected to the laptop down in the shop at the bottom of the hill, it's about 1000 feet from the main house, works fine.(when the shop door is up)

[Mavrick]

How did you run/connect the adapter to the yagi???? Explain the setup......

In one application I had to put mine in a water tight box and use a 10 inch cable to get the power needed.

And 1200 feet is nothing for the Alpha unit, you might even not need the yagi, I have one connected to the laptop down in the shop at the bottom of the hill, it's about 1000 feet from the main house, works fine.(when the shop door is up)

The Yagi antenna has a 3' cable built into it with a sma connector on it that connects direct to the Alfa, then a 5' usb cable from the Alfa to a laptop. That's it, I went up onto the roof with the laptop just to make sure there was no power/signal loss due to cable length but it still didn't work, I even wrapped the 3' yagi cable in about 20 layers of tinfoil just to keep the singal loss down to a minimum but still no-go, I'm at a loss ???

[Terryl]

And you loaded the Alpha drivers and the WIFI software that came with it right??

Mine come with a software that will let you see whats around you, try it directly to the laptop and make sure your setting it up right, you should be able to see all the surrounding WIFI devices with the standard antenna that came with the unit.

Test it that way first, then use the yagi, swing it around and see if the connection is secure and you get the same signals, the end of the coax from the yagi is a REVERSE SMA right?? (also called a RP-SMA) There are two types a standard SMA and a reverse SMA, most LAN WIFI devices use the reverse SMA,(RP-SMA) the two don't mix.

http://www.satfix.to/attachment.php?attachmentid=26953&stc=1

You want the RP-SMA

[Terryl]

One problem I did run into was that some of the 2 watt Alpha's needed a lot of DC current, some laptops and USB ports would not run it, so I had to go with a 2 way externally powered USB hub to run it.

[Mavrick]

The sma connections are fine, it does work just not the range I was hoping for, the AP is about a 1/4 mile away and the Yagi/Alfa can't see it. I was wondering about a USB power issue, I know USB ports put out 5v but I don't know how that converts to watts. I am using the drivers and wlan that was on the disc that came with the Alfa.

[The Noof]

The sma connections are fine, it does work just not the range I was hoping for, the AP is about a 1/4 mile away and the Yagi/Alfa can't see it. I was wondering about a USB power issue, I know USB ports put out 5v but I don't know how that converts to watts. I am using the drivers and wlan that was on the disc that came with the Alfa.



hxxps://superuser.com/questions/690074/what-is-the-power-output-of-a-usb-port...looks like less than 5 watts.

[Terryl]

In the program were you setup the Alpha, there is a power setting, make sure that is set to 100%, and did you set this up at the laptop with the supplied antenna? If so when you did a scan for WIFI...

[Terryl]

One other way to test if it's a DC power problem is to use an externally powered USB hub, this should be able to run the Alpha just fine.

Also make sure you have the right driver as there are 2, see the link below.


https://www.alfa.com.tw/products_show.php?pc=34&ps=8

[Terryl]

And more info on a possible DC power problem.


http://en.data-alliance.net/alfa-awus036h-power-problem-fix-realtek-rtl8187l-chipset/

[Mavrick]

The only thing on the disc was the drivers for Mac, Windows and Linux, and the Ralink Wlan, there was no program to "set up" the Alfa with a power setting???

[Terryl]

How then did you configure it????

There should be a setup program somewhere, is there a little WIFI signal indicator at the bottom right of the screen??

Double click on it and then a setup program should run.

Unfortunately I don't have one around at the moment to help you out with this.

I will go look at the old laptop I used for setting them up.

[Mavrick]

How then did you configure it????

There should be a setup program somewhere, is there a little WIFI signal indicator at the bottom right of the screen??

Double click on it and then a setup program should run.

Unfortunately I don't have one around at the moment to help you out with this.

I will go look at the old laptop I used for setting them up.

Yeah, if you can find that program that would be great. When I got the Alfa I just plugged it in and it worked (but I did update the driver), the wifi icon in the bottom right only opens the windows connection manager. Maybe I got a clone Alfa?

[Terryl]

Can you post a screen shot of the windows connection manager????

In the ones I set up it would show all the local WIFI spots, and what local WIFI router connection your connected to with the IP address and other stuff, and it also give you a section where you could adjust the TX power, I wish I had one here to look at.

One other thing, what model Alpha did you get????

[Mavrick]

Can you post a screen shot of the windows connection manager????

In the ones I set up it would show all the local WIFI spots, and what local WIFI router connection your connected to with the IP address and other stuff, and it also give you a section where you could adjust the TX power, I wish I had one here to look at.

One other thing, what model Alpha did you get????

The Alfa is the......Alfa AWUS036NH 2000mW.
Here is a pic of the connection manager (bottom right of screen) on most windows machines now..........

[Terryl]

Ahhh..... Your missing the configuration program, did that one come with a little CD with the drivers and a second program on it????

[Terryl]

OK if you cant find the utility for that on the CD, then go to the link below, select the "Indoor Wireless" in the "Product Category" section, then enter the "Secure Code" (use all caps) to download and select download, go to page #7 select the "AWUS036H" utility driver for windows 7.(you may need to run it in compatibility mode)

This should get you to a screen where you can see whats going on with the Alpha unit, and be able to configure it, or check the configuration.


http://www.alfa.com.tw/download.php

[Terryl]

Here is a YouTube video on the program that I use.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oypbBz6j6-Y

[Mavrick]

Ahhh..... Your missing the configuration program, did that one come with a little CD with the drivers and a second program on it????

Yes on the CD, no on the program, only the drivers were on the CD, and the drivers were wrapped in a Ralink set-up program with a Ralink wlan. The only thing the Ralink wlan can do is see networks in the area and connect, no configuration abilities.

[Mavrick]

OK if you cant find the utility for that on the CD, then go to the link below, select the "Indoor Wireless" in the "Product Category" section, then enter the "Secure Code" (use all caps) to download and select download, go to page #7 select the "AWUS036H" utility driver for windows 7.(you may need to run it in compatibility mode)

This should get you to a screen where you can see whats going on with the Alpha unit, and be able to configure it, or check the configuration.


http://www.alfa.com.tw/download.php

Ok, thanks. I will check it out......

[Terryl]

Look at the info and link in my post #35.

It should get you the configuration program you need.....I wonder why it was not on the CD that came with the unit???

[Terryl]

Oppps sorry too fast today, you saw the post....

[Terryl]

You don't see a icon that looks like this anywhere on the desktop or elsewhere???

http://www.satfix.to/attachment.php?attachmentid=26957&stc=1this is the shortcut to the configuration program.

[Mavrick]

Nope, nothing like that.......

[Mavrick]

Look at the info and link in my post #35.

It should get you the configuration program you need.....I wonder why it was not on the CD that came with the unit???


I think I know why something is off here, your Alfa seems to be using the Realtek 8187 drivers but mine is using the Ralink 3070 drivers. They must have changed this for some reason or you are using a different model of Alfa, maybe you have the AWUS036H ?

[Terryl]

Sorry I havent been back to this, been fixing a fence.

All the Alphas I used had the Realtek driver and utility, but this was a while ago, they may have changed things, the Realtek utillity was a nice feature, you could do a lot of things with it.

[Mavrick]

Sorry I havent been back to this, been fixing a fence.

All the Alphas I used had the Realtek driver and utility, but this was a while ago, they may have changed things, the Realtek utillity was a nice feature, you could do a lot of things with it.

That's strange, all the 2-watt Alfa's I could find use the Ralink 3070 driver, are you maybe using the 1-watt ?