Question to the masters here about paypal

[turbohd]

Hello

I see that one of the iks sellers offers paypal as payment option

Does this represent a problem to Canadian Users ? I never read about canadian users being sued because of paypal
I do knot know , that is why I am asking the experts here.

But I have read that Canada law goes after the dealers in Canada. I could also be wrong, this is the reason
forums exist, to get more knowledge, hope my questions are ok in this forum.

Seems like lots of people are afraid of using bitcoin or other methods because they are not familiar with them


Now about USA end users, I read that both dealers and end users are targeted and sued by charly.

Also read that the Dealer first need to get busted before they can sue the end user, because they need the proof from the seller

Is this correct ?

So if Dealer can not get busted, can end user still get sued ?


Thank you

[GTO]

Why even consider taking any risk, using PayPal is like a bank robber writing the demand note on one of his own chqs (don't laugh, has been done). No one here can predict what charges Canadian law...

[jaybird1]

if they are even asking for paypal I would be really nervous. IMO

[Putski]

i would just stay away from PayPal.. lot safer that way!
look into bitcoin..

[turbohd]

Do Vanilla Gift Cards from the USA require the SS to activate them ?

I have received some requests from USA customers asking me how to pay from there

I remember once i received a green dot card and lost $100 usd because they were asking for an ID

thank you

[runamok]

Do Vanilla Gift Cards from the USA require the SS to activate them ?

I have received some requests from USA customers asking me how to pay from there

I remember once i received a green dot card and lost $100 usd because they were asking for an ID

thank you




I believe so about the ss needed.I used a couple while back for a server sent to canada.The cards are only good to buy stuff not to get cash.

[buckeye144]

Do Vanilla Gift Cards from the USA require the SS to activate them ?

I have received some requests from USA customers asking me how to pay from there

I remember once i received a green dot card and lost $100 usd because they were asking for an ID

thank you

yes the do require SSN among other information to activate vanilla card in the USA and that is why most US people wont use them. other options need to be brought on to the table for USA users other than vanilla cards or paypal. one seller on here has the right idea, i wont say who it is here in public post but they have plenty of safe payment methods that anyone can use. they even have options for users who cannot make international payments with cards.

[turbohd]

correction

VANILLA CARD FROM THE USA works fine, no need for SS

even AMAZON GIFT CARD works

if you have any gift card from USA or Canada and need service, send me PM

Thanks

[Dude104]

correction

VANILLA CARD FROM THE USA works fine, no need for SS

even AMAZON GIFT CARD works

if you have any gift card from USA or Canada and need service, send me PM

Thanks
Yes there is no need SSN to buy vanilla gift card..they do not ask any thing when you activate the vanilla card in usa.

[nobodyspecial]

Yes there is no need SSN to buy vanilla gift card..they do not ask any thing when you activate the vanilla card in usa.

some ask you to associate it with a zip code to use online

[jedi]

The only problem with any prepaid credit card or gift card is - how do you as a dealer get the money out of the card once you have the card info. <br />
<br />
If a Provider investigator is registered here...

[turbohd]

Hello Jedi <br />
<br />
Everything you are saying applies only if the buyer / fake buyer uses a CREDIT CARD <br />
<br />
A buyer does not give his credit card info via PM to the buyer <br />
<br />
A buyer can only use his credit...

[jedi]

Are you sure the owner of the prepaid credit card can not dispute a transaction? I believe that the owner of the card can call and get the number of the business to call them and dispute a purchase. Also if the owner of the credit card is a professional investigator they probably have some different ways of getting that information that we as a normal consumer wouldn't have.

I was told by some friends that Investigators used info from prepaid Vanilla cards to track them down.

[aceallenk]

Go to a 7-11, shoppers, etc, grab a vanilla, pay cash, done deal. Good luck tracing that.

[johnnylarue]

Go to a 7-11, shoppers, etc, grab a vanilla, pay cash, done deal. Good luck tracing that.
You got that right!
If you have to use paypal, set up a fake paypal account. In Canada you can seed a paypal account with a vanilla card. Use all fake info in paypal and your fake email account, which you only use for this.. Notepad all the fake info, in case they ask you a security question or your birth date (which is fake, of course). Use a VPN when setting it up and doing transactions. In Canada this works 100%.

[turbohd]

Mr Jedi

I think you are confused . The owner of a prepaid credit card can dispute transactions, but that is what we are trying to avoid using

vanilla cards are not prepaid credit cards

they are gift cards with master card and visa logos

gift cards and credit cards are different entities

for a bank issued credit or debit card you need to provide the bank with an official ID, and proof or residence, no need for Social Security if you are not a US resident.

if you purchase a vanilla gift card or any other gift card like green dot, walmart money card, western union mastercard ,
you just pay cash and that is it

because you are only using the card only one time, you do not need to provide SS or any other real information. So there is no way they can track you down.

Vanilla gift card is the easiest and safest way to purchase iks or iptv

Regards

[jedi]

I understand completely what you are saying turbohd. I believe a vanilla card is a prepaid credit card - you prepay the money up front in exchange for using it as a credit card - the name on the front and back of the card says "Vanilla Prepaid Card" - but if you insist it is not - I won't fight you on that issue - because it is immaterial to the point I am trying to make. It does not matter if it is called a gift card or a prepaid credit card - what does matter is how it is used.

Because anyone can walk in and pay cash for a prepaid card without any ID - it is completely safe for the "end user" to come in and purchase it and use it - I agree with that 100%. At this point the purchaser is 99.99% anonymous except for the cameras - and unless you are under CIA or FBI surveillance the cameras won't be used to identify you LOL :-)

The purchaser can log into the Vanilla site and register their card and see all the transactions on the card. They can call the number on the back of the card and dispute a transaction - or call the merchant and dispute it with them.
So the end user is safe - but they provided the card number and expiry date to you the dealer. Let's say they owed you $50 for IKS service - how are you - the dealer - going to get your $50 from the card without exposing yourself?

If Investigators go into the store and buy a card to use to buy IKS service from you - they will see how you used their card to get the money they owed you for the IKS service they bought from you. They own that card and can see how you use it. They can't see the other prepaid card transactions that other users gave you - but they can see how "you" use the card that they gave to you. That is all they need to track you down.

That is where you have to be careful how you process that $50 they owe you. You could go online and buy a couple of Firesticks for yourself and use that Vanilla card info to pay for it. But then that purchase is traceable back to you.
If you use it to buy anything online (merchandise or a service) - chances are it could be traced back to you the IKS dealer. You could use it to fund a phony PayPal account or an online poker account - but PayPal is pretty risky if you start using a lot of these cards - they could prevent you from withdrawing any funds from the account until you prove your identity. Poker accounts are also a problem if you start dealing in large amounts they'll want to see some valid ID.

So there is no direct danger to the end user - they are anonymous. The danger to the end user is how "you" process the credit card info the Investigators gave to you. If you (the Dealer) buy something online and the Investigators track it back to you the dealer - then all of your end users are in trouble. The investigators will show up at your front door with court documents and offer to settle with you if you cooperate with them and give them everything you have - computers, email addresses, IP addresses, forum user IDs and so on. So the danger to the end user is that you will get caught and rat them out. It has happened many times.

Some dealers have refused to cooperate with Investigators - but not many.

No Investigators can trace bitcoin transactions if they are tumbled. Investigators can trace prepaid card transactions - so why make it easier for them to track you down if there is a safer way. The end users have to rely on Dealers to keep themselves safe - if the Dealers are not safe then their end users are not safe.

I understand that a lot of end users do NOT understand how to use bitcoins and are are reluctant to use them - but perhaps more time should be devoted to showing everyone how easy and safe they are to set up and use.

[jedi]

You got that right!
If you have to use paypal, set up a fake paypal account. In Canada you can seed a paypal account with a vanilla card. Use all fake info in paypal and your fake email account, which you only use for this.. Notepad all the fake info, in case they ask you a security question or your birth date (which is fake, of course). Use a VPN when setting it up and doing transactions. In Canada this works 100%.

That does work until PayPal gets suspicious and locks your account until you prove your identity - if you can't all funds in the account are lost.
Once PayPal locks your account - you have no recourse - who are you going to complain to?

I have used several phony PayPal accounts in the past and have lost my fair share of them LOL :-)
You have to be extremely careful how you use them - if you only make payments from it using a prepaid credit card then you are safe - but if someone sends you funds you could have a problem getting those funds out.

PayPal's online security algorithms check for computer IDs, IP addresses used, who you send money to and a lot of other info to try and detect fraudulent use of their system. If they suspect anything they will lock your account.

[johnnylarue]

That does work until PayPal gets suspicious and locks your account until you prove your identity - if you can't all funds in the account are lost.
Once PayPal locks your account - you have no recourse - who are you going to complain to?

I have used several phony PayPal accounts in the past and have lost my fair share of them LOL :-)
You have to be extremely careful how you use them - if you only make payments from it using a prepaid credit card then you are safe - but if someone sends you funds you could have a problem getting those funds out.

PayPal's online security algorithms check for computer IDs, IP addresses used, who you send money to and a lot of other info to try and detect fraudulent use of their system. If they suspect anything they will lock your account.

When you seed a paypal account with a vanilla card, the money is not drawn from the card until you make a paypal transaction. For instance, I made a $30 purchase using paypal recently. I seeded the paypal account with a $50 vanilla card. Paypal took the $30 from my vanilla card. I still have a balance of $20 on my vanilla card. That balance I can still use anywhere...supermarket, gas where ever. The vanilla card in not locked. The next time I use paypal I will seed it with another vanilla card. There is nothing for paypal to seize.

[jedi]

When you seed a paypal account with a vanilla card, the money is not drawn from the card until you make a paypal transaction. For instance, I made a $30 purchase using paypal recently. I seeded the paypal account with a $50 vanilla card. Paypal took the $30 from my vanilla card. I still have a balance of $20 on my vanilla card. That balance I can still use anywhere...supermarket, gas where ever. The vanilla card in not locked. The next time I use paypal I will seed it with another vanilla card. There is nothing for paypal to seize.

You are absolutely correct - that is why i said " if you only make payments from it using a prepaid credit card then you are safe - but if someone sends you funds you could have a problem getting those funds out"

They can not seize anything unless you use it to receive funds from someone - then you could have a problem.

If you are going to use a fake PayPal account funded with a prepaid card - I don't see why you wouldn't just use the prepaid card. I can't see where the fake PayPal account adds any extra layer of protection.

If a dealer accepts PayPal payments - then Investigators could set up a PayPal account - use it to buy IKS/IPTV service and send a PayPal payment to the IKS/IPTV Dealer. The Investigators could then try and track down the owners of that PayPal account that they sent the payment to. When they track down the owner of that PayPal account it is eventually going to lead to the dealer - and you know the rest of the story - the dealer rats out the end users.

[johnnylarue]

You are absolutely correct - that is why i said " if you only make payments from it using a prepaid credit card then you are safe - but if someone sends you funds you could have a problem getting those funds out"

They can not seize anything unless you use it to receive funds from someone - then you could have a problem.

If you are going to use a fake PayPal account funded with a prepaid card - I don't see why you wouldn't just use the prepaid card. I can't see where the fake PayPal account adds any extra layer of protection.

If a dealer accepts PayPal payments - then Investigators could set up a PayPal account - use it to buy IKS/IPTV service and send a PayPal payment to the IKS/IPTV Dealer. The Investigators could then try and track down the owners of that PayPal account that they sent the payment to. When they track down the owner of that PayPal account it is eventually going to lead to the dealer - and you know the rest of the story - the dealer rats out the end users.

Even if the iks/iptv dealer gets busted and rats out my fake paypal acct,
it leads nowhere. Everything is fake, plus the IP logs will only show a VPN addy. I ONLY use the fake email acct for fake paypal , and when I log in, I am using a VPN.

[jedi]

Even if the iks/iptv dealer gets busted and rats out my fake paypal acct,
it leads nowhere. Everything is fake, plus the IP logs will only show a VPN addy. I ONLY use the fake email acct for fake paypal , and when I log in, I am using a VPN.

If you use a proxy server to connect to the IKS/IPTV server and into your email account, PayPal account and forums then I think you are pretty safe - but not every IKS/IPTV user uses a VPN to connect. All it takes is one mistake where you forget to use your proxy server to connect and your IP is in the log files.

It may not be a big issue but why use a fake PayPal account to pay them if you already have an anonymous prepaid card? PayPal scares the bejeebers out of me - who knows what kind of info they are storing on all of us when we log into our PayPal accounts. I have read that they keep track of our unique computer IDs and where we log in from. If they have access to this same info from other sites that we visit using the same proxy IP addy and computer ID then maybe they can build their data base do some comparisons and eventually find our true identity.
It sounds far fetched - but I don't trust them or any of the giants like Google, YouTube or Facebook to protect my identity.

Trying to hide from a professional Provider investigator is one thing - but trying to hide from the big boys like PayPal and Google is entirely different.

[johnnylarue]

If you use a proxy server to connect to the IKS/IPTV server and into your email account, PayPal account and forums then I think you are pretty safe - but not every IKS/IPTV user uses a VPN to connect. All it takes is one mistake where you forget to use your proxy server to connect and your IP is in the log files.

It may not be a big issue but why use a fake PayPal account to pay them if you already have an anonymous prepaid card? PayPal scares the bejeebers out of me - who knows what kind of info they are storing on all of us when we log into our PayPal accounts. I have read that they keep track of our unique computer IDs and where we log in from. If they have access to this same info from other sites that we visit using the same proxy IP addy and computer ID then maybe they can build their data base do some comparisons and eventually find our true identity.
It sounds far fetched - but I don't trust them or any of the giants like Google, YouTube or Facebook to protect my identity.

Trying to hide from a professional Provider investigator is one thing - but trying to hide from the big boys like PayPal and Google is entirely different.

I would always use a prepaid vanilla if I could, but there are IPTV sellers that only use paypal. That is when I use paypal. I originally started using fake paypal with the Mexican IKS guys.

I am paranoid much like you. I got hassled by the man years ago after I bought a Nexus unlocker from a pirate site. The site got pinched and they handed over their records.


I totally agree with you that paying with a vanilla card is the safest. It would be the only payment method that I would use if avail.

Paying by bitcoin is safe, but the fees have gone thru the roof , which has made that method a dead dog.

[turbohd]

I have a safe system for me and the customer.

Just called vanilla, they do not process refunds . That is the difference between a gift and a bank issued credit / debit card.

Bitpay.com is fast and cheap . I do not like that is USA based. I still need to find bitcoin processor offshore with low fees.

People should stay away from USA based VPN service providers.

There are many good ones out of the USA.

And after all this talk, I am still getting requests for PAYPAL,

it is like the cigarette packaging in Mexico, they are on the big fancy displays , but each box has pictures of the many different cancers you can get by smoking them

its big pictures of the dying people with cancer throat on top bottom and all sides of the cigarette brand

And people are still buying them

I guess it is the same with paypal, people do not believe it can happen to them.

[johnnylarue]

I have a safe system for me and the customer.

Just called vanilla, they do not process refunds . That is the difference between a gift and a bank issued credit / debit card.

Bitpay.com is fast and cheap . I do not like that is USA based. I still need to find bitcoin processor offshore with low fees.

People should stay away from USA based VPN service providers.

There are many good ones out of the USA.

And after all this talk, I am still getting requests for PAYPAL,

it is like the cigarette packaging in Mexico, they are on the big fancy displays , but each box has pictures of the many different cancers you can get by smoking them

its big pictures of the dying people with cancer throat on top bottom and all sides of the cigarette brand

And people are still buying them

I guess it is the same with paypal, people do not believe it can happen to them.

Anyone who would use a legit paypal account has to be on the pipe. How many paypal users from this site got nailed because of wolfie?

[jedi]

I have a safe system for me and the customer.

Just called vanilla, they do not process refunds . That is the difference between a gift and a bank issued credit / debit card.

Bitpay.com is fast and cheap . I do not like that is USA based. I still need to find bitcoin processor offshore with low fees.

People should stay away from USA based VPN service providers.

There are many good ones out of the USA.

And after all this talk, I am still getting requests for PAYPAL,

it is like the cigarette packaging in Mexico, they are on the big fancy displays , but each box has pictures of the many different cancers you can get by smoking them

its big pictures of the dying people with cancer throat on top bottom and all sides of the cigarette brand

And people are still buying them

I guess it is the same with paypal, people do not believe it can happen to them.

Thanks turbohd - at least you are asking the questions and trying to find a safe way to protect you and your clients - that to me is important.
You may very well have a safe method to protect yourself - but if it involves prepaid gift cards or whatever we call them - it is questionable. I'm not saying it can't be done - but most methods used by past dealers have not been successful.

Vanilla told you they will not issue refunds - that is not the issue - they will give up info to Investigators - I know that for a fact. I can give you names, addresses, phone numbers, etc. that have been obtained from Vanilla credit card payment transactions.
It does not matter if Vanilla offer refunds or not - what matters is how much info a trained professional investigator can gather from that one simple transaction ID number.

Try it yourself - buy a Vanilla card - use it to buy something and then dispute it and deny that you made a purchase. With a little bit of know how you will able to get the merchant's name and phone number. Once you have that go to the Merchant and ask for proof of purchase with the transaction info you have. If you push the issue you will get the identity of the person that made the purchase.
So just imagine if it is that easy for a normal consumer to get that info - how much more info could a trained professional investigator get from that transaction info.

You do not need a bitcoin processor - just open up a simple bitcoin account with something like Coinbase - it does not matter if they are onshore or offshore. You need one legitimate bitcoin account where you give your true identity so that you can easily fund it and withdraw funds. Once you have that you can open up hundreds of bitcoins accounts using fake email addresses - that is all you need. Have your clients send their payments to the fake bitcoin wallet addresses - once the funds are there tumble them and send the funds to your true bitcoin account.

Think about this for a second..... all the cyber criminals and rogue nations like North Korea accept bitcoins to extort money from people, institutions and other countries around the world..... why????........... because it can not be traced.
If the evil criminals of this world think it is safe.... then I think it is pretty safe for us guys just trying to buy some IPTV/IKS service :-)

[schylla]

Just my five cents on the Paypal issue.Not everyone lives in the usa or on the north american continent for that matter.So Paypal payments are easy and safe for those people.

[turbohd]

it is never safe for the seller

because these days the investigators go after anyone everywhere if they find a way.

so 100% the 4 letter word for PAYPAL