Winter Project

[Terryl]

29671

Took on a new project to keep me busy this winter. (or longer, more then likely longer)

It's a 1939 Chevy Business coupe. (has no back seat)

I have no problems finding parts and body panels (removing fenders for work on them) but I want to change out the old 216 cubic inch engine to a 235, the old engine has a cracked block in the water jacket.(so I got a great deal on it)

But I'm having problems finding a 235 engine in rebuildable shape, looking for one close by to the Modesto CA area, but if in good shape will go further then 150 miles.

Anyone spot one give me a PM.

[maird57]

Are you restoring or street rodding it?

[Terryl]

I'm 50/50 on that, I would like to restore it but finding OEM parts hard to find.

One major thing was the foot boards, the ones on the car were rusted out, (holes I could put my fist through) I have looked for OEM replacements but having a hard time doing so.

The street rod replacements (some came with the car) are 5/8 of an inch too thin, the OEM boards have water grooves stamped in them for drainage, and have special bolt attachments to mount to the supports, so they are thicker then the street rod replacements, the street rod type are just flat steel and don't quite fit up to the front fender bolts, also they don't have a way to attach to the OEM supports, I would have to do some engineering to make them work.

But I have time to figure this stuff out. (I hope)

I have found some refurbished OEM boards and rubber mats, but the shipping from Ohio to here is almost double what the guy wants for the boards.

[Terryl]

One other problem is that they (back in 1939) used square nuts on all the bolts, it's very hard to remove a square nut that has been in place for 85 years,(without the proper tools) and trying to find a supplier for 4 point socket sets has been frustrating.

One more thing is that most of the bolts I can get to are just breaking off, even with a good dose of WD 40 and PB blaster, so it looks like I will be using some good bolt extractors to remove these. (any recommendations?)

[maird57]

One other problem is that they (back in 1939) used square nuts on all the bolts, it's very hard to remove a square nut that has been in place for 85 years,(without the proper tools) and trying to find a supplier for 4 point socket sets has been frustrating.

One more thing is that most of the bolts I can get to are just breaking off, even with a good dose of WD 40 and PB blaster, so it looks like I will be using some good bolt extractors to remove these. (any recommendations?)

I used to use some heat on them. Most came loose but patience is needed. I used to sell Streetrod parts for a living. Chev parts were always hard to find. Street rod companies had a hard time justifying the cost to manufacture parts for chevys. I would have thought that when Fords were getting scarce then the manufacturers would step up and start punching out Chev stuff. I do suggest Street rodding it. So much stuff out there now.

[Highwayman]

29671

Took on a new project to keep me busy this winter. (or longer, more then likely longer)

It's a 1939 Chevy Business coupe. (has no back seat)

I have no problems finding parts and body panels (removing fenders for work on them) but I want to change out the old 216 cubic inch engine to a 235, the old engine has a cracked block in the water jacket.(so I got a great deal on it)

But I'm having problems finding a 235 engine in rebuildable shape, looking for one close by to the Modesto CA area, but if in good shape will go further then 150 miles.

Anyone spot one give me a PM.

what about a reman theres one in sun valley 2400 bucks
i`d offer to paint her for ya but i retired after 48 years
to old.also in stockton theres a old chevy parts seller the name
escapes me maybe mr corvette ill look it up its off farmington rd i believe

[Terryl]

I looked at those refurbished ones, if I was going to spend over 1K on an engine I would drop a 283 or 327 in it, (and tranny, rear end) if I was going to do that I would drop a new front end on it and street rod it.

Thinking long time work and spread the budget out as far as possible.

A friend who is a mechanic suggested a 4.2 liter inline 6 that has an aluminum block, but have to get the specs as to is measurements and how it mounts. I don't want to have to extend the front end just to clear the radiator, even if I go with a 235 I might have to go with an electric fan as the belt driven fan may not clear the radiator.

If I do go with a small block V8 I would have to get a new radiator and one setup for an automatic tranny cooler,(if I go with an automatic) also with an electric fan setup.

Things to think about, and work things into a budget that wont break the bank.

And thanks on the offer to paint it, I have a guy here local that's going to help with the body work, as the whole rear end by the bottom of the trunk need replacing, it has what is called a "Tool Tray" that part is totally rusted out, and the back end body panel looks to have been crudely repaired.

Fun stuff ahead, all comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated as I haven done this type of work since the "70's".

Later guys

[maird57]

Walker Radiator is the one I would recommend. Great quality but a bit pricy and it had the bungs for the trans cooler lines.

[Terryl]

OK kids, have run into a problem, I need to do some cutting and grinding on the inside body work, the problem is that the gas tank is located inside under the back where a back seat would be, I have access to the tank and have disconnected the fuel line and tank sensor, I can see where the straps connect through the floor board, I see the "T" bolts that hold one end of the strap but cant find the corresponding nuts to remove them.

Too cold right now to get some photos, will tackle this later.

[Terryl]

OK an update, got the tank out,(nuts were hidden under some caked on mud and other junk) and did some work as it has warmed up a bit, took the rear fenders off to look at some rusted through holes....Well it looks like this maybe several winters worth of work, got one big spot that is going to be a tough one to fix, and I don't know where to start, here is a photo.

29690

[dishuser]

I would shape a piece of sheet metal for whole thing and cut most of that out and coat it
on one of my old pickups the wheel wells had a plastic insert and gas tank had a shield
removed all that and redid wheel wells before coating
dumbest design I've ever seen as it traps salt and water and you have no idea it's rusting away

[Terryl]

The funny thing is that the passenger side is perfect, no rust to be seen.

[dishuser]

The funny thing is that the passenger side is perfect, no rust to be seen.

driver must have been a lot heavier than passenger which kept it higher off the ground...lol

[landscaper]

Looks amazing as is Terryl but, I am sure it will be primo when done.

[chad1976]

Looks good But...Please put up the America Flag on the right.It will make u more proud on your Project and where u live. Thx

[Terryl]

That flag is scheduled to be taken out to the houseboat as soon as the weather clears up, the lake is way too choppy, windy and rainy to go out right now, maybe sometime in March.

[Terryl]

OK after some serious work I'm down to working on the doors, the hinges are held on with some 5/16" 24 thread grade 5 bolts, with what is called a heavy head, that make them have a 9/16 head instead of the standard 1/2 " head, so I needed to remove the doors to replace the door bottoms by removing the hinges by removing the bolts holding them in, and they were rusted in, some came out others had big problems, stripped the heads right off, (BIG wrenches needed)so I need to find some replacement ones.

Now after looking on many old car web sites all I can find are 5/16-24 with the heavy head but in stainless steel, I don't know if the stainless steel bolts are the same rating as the OEM ones at grade 5.

I also have looked at some bolt suppliers in my area but can't find them with the 9/16 head.

Anyone have a source for something like what I need?? It would be 5/16-24 x 3/4 inch grade 5 with 9/16 head size, I need 24 of them.

Here is a view on work done as today.
30243

[Highwayman]

winter project is lookin good those heavy heads might be hard to find <br />
i got a old friend that has a cnc screw machine not sure what they would charge to do that.

[Terryl]

Yah I'm finding that out, been looking all over, I can find some on the ""filling station"" web site but they are stainless steel, I don't know what the rating is for stainless steel bolts, are the the same as the OEM bolts??

I have some of the OEM bolts but I need 12 per side,(total of 24) I'm short about 8 as some heads stripped off trying to get 85 year old rusty bolts out, I have to take the hinges off because someone in the far distant pass tried to drive the hinge pins out and mushroomed the pin bottoms, had to buy new pins and bushings anyway so it was a necessity.

The door bottoms are all rusted out so it's a job and a half in progress.

[Terryl]

Anyone have an idea on how much of an angle the engine and tranny can be at and not have problems?

[Terryl]

Here is a view of the body work so far, I just need to work on the right rear section a bit, then it's ready for a full coat of primer.
30342

[maird57]

Anyone have an idea on how much of an angle the engine and tranny can be at and not have problems?

2 to 5 degrees is the standard.

[Terryl]

Ok thanks for that info, so it looks like I might have to send the 3 inch tranny mount back and get the 6 inch, or try and figure out some type of drop extension to add to the one I have now.

[maird57]

Quote ""Now after looking on many old car web sites all I can find are 5/16-24 with the heavy head but in stainless steel, I don't know if the stainless steel bolts are the same rating as the OEM ones at grade 5""


A grade 8 steel bolt is generally considered comparable to a A2 (Also known as Type 304) grade stainless steel bolt, which is a standard stainless steel with a strength level roughly equivalent to a grade 8 carbon steel bolt, although a grade 8 bolt will typically be stronger overall due to the higher tensile strength of carbon steel compared to most stainless steels.

[TLG]

Here is a view of the body work so far, I just need to work on the right rear section a bit, then it's ready for a full coat of primer.
30342
that attachmen6comes back as invalid

[Terryl]

Weird it was working a while ago. Will try again in a few.

[Terryl]

I think I found the photo...

[Gates07]

for your grade 8 bolts why not go to a cat truck diesel repair shop,

[Terryl]

for your grade 8 bolts why not go to a cat truck diesel repair shop,I can get grade 8 bolts at Lowe's or Home Depot, but none of them have the heavy head I need, the ones for the door hinges are 5/16-24 and have a 9/16" head,(normal bolts are 1/2" head in that size) also the heads are flatter then normal.

I might go with the stainless steel ones as they will dress up the look.

[Terryl]

2 to 5 degrees is the standard.

That may be a problem as at 5 degrees puts the tail stock of the tranny still out of line with the differential.

I may need to get some custom engine mounts made up as the ones I have look to be too tall, when I put the 3" drop tranny cross member in it levels out the engine/tranny combo, but puts the tail stock way out of line with the differential, I don't want to go with a split drive shaft.

What would be the maximum down angle with out problems??

[maird57]

That may be a problem as at 5 degrees puts the tail stock of the tranny still out of line with the differential.

I may need to get some custom engine mounts made up as the ones I have look to be too tall, when I put the 3" drop tranny cross member in it levels out the engine/tranny combo, but puts the tail stock way out of line with the differential, I don't want to go with a split drive shaft.

What would be the maximum down angle with out problems??

I searched through a bunch of videos. This guy is spot on in explaining pinion/engine angle.
h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDjBHT5-u_4

[Terryl]

I talked with the guys that supplied the motor mounts and the guys that supplied the transmission cross member, the motor mounts are spot on for that engine, the guys at the tranny cross member(TCM for now) place said that the 3 inch drop would not be enough, sent him a couple of photos and a walk around face time video and he said that they will take the 3" TCM back and send one with a 6 inch drop, and after some careful measurements it looks like I will wind up with a 6 degree down angle on the engine and a 1 degree angle difference on the tranny tail stock to differential.

Here's a look at the motor.

30346

[maird57]

With those angles you will most likely have a vibration issue. The ideal engine angle should be around 3 degrees. The pinion angle is usually the same as the engine. The guy in the video explains it well.

[Terryl]

Yah I agree, after looking it over I have decided to drop the engine down, I'm going to use the mount to the engine block but fabricate a new mount to the chassis and have the new 6 inch drop transmission cross-member on it's way.

I have a welder and can fab out a good strong mount using some 4 inch angle steel, it's 1/4 inch thick, I'm going to fab it like the chassis saddle mount that came with the engine mount (look under the "C" clamp in the photo) but deeper, it will drop the engine about 3 inches as I'm going to use the vibration dampener that came with the other mount.

This will also give me more floor board clearance on the tranny.

The reasoning behind making a saddle mount is because the chassis is a box frame type consisting of two pieces, one in a "U" shape with side flanges and a bottom piece that is spot welded to the flanges, (again see the photo above) and it's not very thick steel, so welding to one side only would be out of the question.

[maird57]

Yah I agree, after looking it over I have decided to drop the engine down, I'm going to use the mount to the engine block but fabricate a new mount to the chassis and have the new 6 inch drop transmission cross-member on it's way.

I have a welder and can fab out a good strong mount using some 4 inch angle steel, it's 1/4 inch thick, I'm going to fab it like the chassis saddle mount that came with the engine mount (look under the "C" clamp in the photo) but deeper, it will drop the engine about 3 inches as I'm going to use the vibration dampener that came with the other mount.

This will also give me more floor board clearance on the tranny.

The reasoning behind making a saddle mount is because the chassis is a box frame type consisting of two pieces, one in a "U" shape with side flanges and a bottom piece that is spot welded to the flanges, (again see the photo above) and it's not very thick steel, so welding to one side only would be out of the question.

You're definitely on the right track. Lowering the engine whenever possible helps with trans tunnel clearance.

[Terryl]

OK, I frankensteined the motor mounts, I used the top part of the manufactured one that mounts to the motor, then built one that dropped it down about 3 inches, the new tranny mount has a 6 inch drop, it now lines up with the differential, I think this is going to work out, now for a custom drive shaft, Chevy at one end and Ford at the other. I had to use a Ford differential as I could not find a Chevy rear end to fit my chassis.
30357

[Terryl]

Here is a photo of the new transmission cross-member, the old one only had a 3 inch drop, this one has a 6 inch drop, lines things up very nice.

30358

[Terryl]

Now for the front end replacement.

[maird57]

What's the angle of the engine/trans? Looks more than 3 degrees. Maybe it's the angle taken of the picture that makes it look more.

[Terryl]

it's less then 2 degrees, it's hard to get the photos just right, but I have a digital level, if I stick it to the bottom of the tranny pan it shows .4 degrees down, the offset from the output shaft of the tranny to the differential is less then 2 degrees, so I'm well with in the 3 to 5 degree margin.

[dishuser]

I did chevy motor to ford rear end
turned out perfect having a 9" posi rear end
bullet proof :thumbsup:
handled 425 hp no problem

[The Noof]

Lookin' good Terry.Continue paying close attention to your drive line angles.You will be glad you did.Driveline vibrations are REAL tough on the diff and tranny.Curious why you chose the LS over old-school SB or even BB.

[Terryl]

I got a good price on the LS, a local had his truck "T" boned a few years back, saw it posted one day on a local market place, got it and the tranny for 200 smackers. It had been sitting in his back yard for a bit, but I have pulled the oil pan, exhaust and intake manafolds, used a bore scope on the cylinders and everything looks great.

[Terryl]

OK, the engine and tranny are situated, now for the really big job.

Anyone have experience with changing out the front end (1939 end) to a Mustang II IFS, watched some videos, but have lots of questions as to what one to get, have seen the comparison videos between the cheap universal ones, (Chinese) others on Ebay to the really expensive ones. (Heidts)

I can get one that will bolt in to my frame, but its almost 800 bucks more then the weld in ones, I do have a local welder that is certified, but again it's more cost to pay him.

Any ideas out there???

[maird57]

I personally wouldn't trust a bolt in unless you add some weld tacks. If you do a bolt on I would recommend the Chassis Engineering one but it's priced at $1,000.00. Speedway Motors has a weld in one for $360.00

[Terryl]

Well one thing with a weld one, that chassis is not that thick of metal, it's a box type, not the "C" channel type you get now days, it's one piece that is stamped out with the bottom piece spot welded on,(you can see it in my post #32) it was good enough for the old 216 CI 85 horse power engine but I'm wondering what may go on with the small block LS and with the front end replaced.

Being out there in the boonies I don't have someone local that has done this before that I can run things by, if I lived back in the big city I might have a local club or two to talk things over with, this is one reason for this thread.

[maird57]

Well one thing with a weld one, that chassis is not that thick of metal, it's a box type, not the "C" channel type you get now days, it's one piece that is stamped out with the bottom piece spot welded on,(you can see it in my post #32) it was good enough for the old 216 CI 85 horse power engine but I'm wondering what may go on with the small block LS and with the front end replaced.

Being out there in the boonies I don't have someone local that has done this before that I can run things by, if I lived back in the big city I might have a local club or two to talk things over with, this is one reason for this thread.

Most frames back in the day were c channeled. Boxed is the best way to go for a chassis. I would add more weld to the chassis where it's just spot welded. I personally would make sure most of the frame is properly boxed and welded.

[Terryl]

Ok, new front end is on it's way, now for something different, anyone have a good idea on how to clean up an aluminum transmission case, the one I have is very dingy, and with the car going to all new paint and the chassis all freshly undercoated the tranny will look terrible.

I see products online but most are for outdoor patio stuff and mag wheels, I want some good spray on stuff that I don't have to wire brush or scrub very hard.

[maird57]

Ok, new front end is on it's way, now for something different, anyone have a good idea on how to clean up an aluminum transmission case, the one I have is very dingy, and with the car going to all new paint and the chassis all freshly undercoated the tranny will look terrible.

I see products online but most are for outdoor patio stuff and mag wheels, I want some good spray on stuff that I don't have to wire brush or scrub very hard.

Depending on how dirty it is I would first try cleaning with a high psi power washer (car wash). If that doesn't clean it I would suggest having it soda blasted.

[Terryl]

I have a gas powered pressure washer and a sand blaster, but I don't want to use the sand blaster on it as the stuff may get inside somehow.(super fine ground up coal clinkers)

It's not that dirty, just grungy....As in the photo if you can tell.

30379

[dishuser]

pressure washer should clean that oxidation off

[maird57]

pressure washer should clean that oxidation off

Agreed!!!!!!

[dishuser]

will the tranny fit? :innocent:
https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/481265071_953639810224866_2168390521836537463_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=rcShlImLH8QQ7kNvgFtoMot&_nc_oc=Adglw3RrDk5-nHvP7ZiigKcmfMR1Ah1TPjWxk3LVX8gT1ExH_wTzmvqu6LNCF9 6nr60&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_gid=AMI9vdT3fs3AunO_AHM1J2b&oh=00_AYHs0K5dkBwYeh4gVQI9A0Vly54pIE6C-yvGO57Plz-dvw&oe=67D56F7B

[Terryl]

Mmmmmm the dishwasher would have to be a bit taller for to fit, but the engine and tranny have been fitted in the chassis, just waiting on the new torque converter and to install the new Mustang II IFS front end, then the whole assembly is going back in.

[The Noof]

Blast with dry ice rather than sand.Plug the cooler line fittings as well as the vent,output shaft, and input shaft if you do it with the converter removed.

[Terryl]

I don't use sand, I use crushed coal slag from Tractor Supply,(cheap) the fine stuff did wonders on the chassis and car body, only took 300 pounds.(6 bags of this stuff, tractors item # 390779899 if you want to look)

And I don't know how to use dry ice in my blaster, besides the nearest place to get dry ice in my area is about 60 miles away.

[Terryl]

Well the engine, transmission and drive shaft are in (photos later) and the differential is ready for welding on the new spring perches, now comes a problem, I'm trying to find what is called a stand alone DBW* wiring harness for a 5.3 LS engine with a 4L60e transmission, the problems I'm running into is that all the harnesses I find do not have the correct plug for the transmission neutral safety switch, as in the photo below. (the one in my hand)

The other round plug is correct on all the harnesses I have found but none have the plug I need for the safety switch.

Any ideas or places to look?



*DBW+= drive by wire30459

[Terryl]

The photos I mentioned..

[maird57]

Well the engine, transmission and drive shaft are in (photos later) and the differential is ready for welding on the new spring perches, now comes a problem, I'm trying to find what is called a stand alone DBW* wiring harness for a 5.3 LS engine with a 4L60e transmission, the problems I'm running into is that all the harnesses I find do not have the correct plug for the transmission neutral safety switch, as in the photo below. (the one in my hand)

The other round plug is correct on all the harnesses I have found but none have the plug I need for the safety switch.

Any ideas or places to look?



*DBW+= drive by wire30459

I haven't been in the streetrod business for over 20 years so not up to date. You may want to talk to Painless Wiring or Ron Francis Wiring.

[Terryl]

WOW I checked out that painless wiring and almost had a heart attack, $1200 for a stand alone harness NFW, I found one on Ebay ($120) that I may have to add that connector to, we will see whats what when I get it.

[Terryl]

The engine is not complete yet, intake manifold needs to go on, headers are on order, water pump is installed, the power steering is next, I have to order custom hoses from the manufacturer on the power rack and pinion steering unit, the differential spring perches were all welded in place yesterday, so that's done.

This winter project is turning into a summer project, hopefully I can get it done before the big heat starts up later this summer.

[maird57]

WOW I checked out that painless wiring and almost had a heart attack, $1200 for a stand alone harness NFW, I found one on Ebay ($120) that I may have to add that connector to, we will see whats what when I get it.

Holy crap, I used to sell the harnesses for around 300 bucks!!!!

[runamok]

It should be a sweet ride when you get done with it.