DN / Dark Angel revisited

[Montanaman]

Looks like the rumors are true - Dark Angels customers are getting greetings from the enemy - I was hoping it was a hoax -

[fifties]

The question might be, how many "subs" did D/A have, given that only three people, so far, have been sued. Is it just the start, or are they simply being made examples of...

[DsssTester]

IKS is risky business, throw in public private IKS where you provide proof of your use of IKS with personal payment information and this is what you get. I am guessing we will see more of these end user cases in the near future.

[Jordan Max]

Why would anyone pay for a public-private-IKS sub with real information. Soo bizarre.

[DsssTester]

Why would anyone pay for a public-private-IKS sub with real information. Soo bizarre.
Well my assumption would be they think the provider of their public private iks is never going to be caught and even if they are that DN could never acquire their payment info from their provider. Wrong answer.

[techie1]

Well im surprised this thread isnt getting more hits.. Everyone should be careful out there and take this as a warning that your iks provider doesnt have any reason to protect the end user. On another note there is 3 more docs on another site so in total 6 people being sued thus far by echo/nag but all the cases are in Texas?? Maybe they are released because of nano2 goin down and people are looking for p$?

[stman]

If the thread title had been something more like 'DN vs Dark Angel Users' or 'DN vs DA IKS Users', it would have attracted more attention.

[profit]

When people joint "Black Angel" some were ask to be feeders, I wonder if those defendants were just that.

[fifties]

When people joint "Black Angel" some were ask to be feeders, I wonder if those defendants were just that.

I don't think so; when they busted the Sonysat IKS scheme, they went after their seeders very specifically, citing the abuse of the TOS agreements.

[dishuser]

Originally published March 12, 2011 at 10:27 p.m., updated March 12, 2011 at 10:27 p.m.


A Victoria man is being sued for stealing satellite television programming.

Plaintiffs DISH Network, EchoStar Technologies and NagraStar filed a lawsuit against John Borden in federal court earlier this month.

Borden, who lives at 5971 Wood Hi Road, is accused of purchasing subscriptions to a pirate television service operated by dark-angel.ca in January, March and June 2010, thus, unlawfully circumventing the DISH Network security system and receiving copyrighted, subscription-based DISH Network satellite television programming without authorization and without payment, according to the lawsuit.

DISH Network is a multi-channel video provider that delivers video, audio and data services via a direct broadcast satellite system to more than 14 million subscribers.

Meanwhile, NagraStar provides smart cards and other technology to DISH Network and EchoStar provides receivers that process incoming DISH Network satellite signals.

In a separate lawsuit, DISH Network sued Dark Angel in Canada and seized the pirate television service's computer server and business records, which showed that Borden had been a subscriber.

As a subscriber to Dark Angel, Borden was able to obtain DISH Network's descrambling control words to illegally receive and descramble DISH copyrighted television programming, according to the lawsuit.

To access Dark Angel's computer server, Borden used a pirate satellite receiver loaded with piracy software, the suit alleges.

Each time the defendant tuned his pirate satellite receiver to a scrambled DISH Network television channel, the pirate satellite receiver would access the Dark Angel pirate server to request the descrambling control word for that particular channel, according to the lawsuit.

In turn, the Dark Angel server would return the control word, allowing Borden to descramble the encrypted signal and view television programming without authorization.

The lawsuit contends, Borden's actions violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the Communications Act of 1934 and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act.

In addition to wanting all of Borden's unauthorized pirate equipment impounded, the plaintiffs are seeking damages of up to $2,500 for each violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, $10,000 for each violation of the Communications Act and $100 per day for each violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act.

Court documents did not list an attorney for Borden.

Calls made to Borden went unanswered, and calls made to DISH Network's attorney were not returned.

[JCO]

Originally published March 12, 2011 at 10:27 p.m., updated March 12, 2011 at 10:27 p.m.


A Victoria man is being sued for stealing satellite television programming.

Plaintiffs DISH Network, EchoStar Technologies and NagraStar filed a lawsuit against John Borden in federal court earlier this month.

Borden, who lives at 5971 Wood Hi Road, is accused of purchasing subscriptions to a pirate television service operated by dark-angel.ca in January, March and June 2010, thus, unlawfully circumventing the DISH Network security system and receiving copyrighted, subscription-based DISH Network satellite television programming without authorization and without payment, according to the lawsuit.

DISH Network is a multi-channel video provider that delivers video, audio and data services via a direct broadcast satellite system to more than 14 million subscribers.

Meanwhile, NagraStar provides smart cards and other technology to DISH Network and EchoStar provides receivers that process incoming DISH Network satellite signals.

In a separate lawsuit, DISH Network sued Dark Angel in Canada and seized the pirate television service's computer server and business records, which showed that Borden had been a subscriber.

As a subscriber to Dark Angel, Borden was able to obtain DISH Network's descrambling control words to illegally receive and descramble DISH copyrighted television programming, according to the lawsuit.

To access Dark Angel's computer server, Borden used a pirate satellite receiver loaded with piracy software, the suit alleges.

Each time the defendant tuned his pirate satellite receiver to a scrambled DISH Network television channel, the pirate satellite receiver would access the Dark Angel pirate server to request the descrambling control word for that particular channel, according to the lawsuit.

In turn, the Dark Angel server would return the control word, allowing Borden to descramble the encrypted signal and view television programming without authorization.

The lawsuit contends, Borden's actions violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the Communications Act of 1934 and the Electronic Communications Privacy Act.

In addition to wanting all of Borden's unauthorized pirate equipment impounded, the plaintiffs are seeking damages of up to $2,500 for each violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, $10,000 for each violation of the Communications Act and $100 per day for each violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act.

Court documents did not list an attorney for Borden.

Calls made to Borden went unanswered, and calls made to DISH Network's attorney were not returned.

Sounds like a lot more than daves letters.. Lets see if Canada laws get tough on white collar crime..

[mad ivan]

An address : 5971 Wood Hi Road is in Victoria ,Texas not in Victoria BC,Canada.
It looks like all of those cases are in Texas ... hmm :noidea:

[fdsajk]

But still it is not good idea to give your real info when you are signing ps .

[cside]

DN attorney are out of Texas so they will be in front of a consertivate Good old boy judge and you go to Texas to see them :(

[hpjtv]

Sounds like a lot more than daves letters.. Lets see if Canada laws get tough on white collar crime..

If you are in Canada, take from US, if you are in US, take from Canada. :p As for the case above, it's not in Canada (although the server provider is from Canada). The address is for Victoria, Texas.

[stman]

If you are in Canada, take from US, if you are in US, take from Canada. :p As for the case above, it's not in Canada (although the server provider is from Canada). The address is for Victoria, Texas.

The age old cross border business will not work. The laws involved are recognized internationally by everyone that signed the treaty on digital protection. :)

[hpjtv]

The age old cross border business will not work. The laws involved are recognized internationally by everyone that signed the treaty on digital protection. :)

I'm sure they will go after the big guys but the little ones... not likely.

[ITS ME!]

It looks like this is a little guy and if Im not mistaken there was another "end user" served for this too fifties mentions 3 charged, maybe more to come but yes so far they have been in the U.S., I...

[dishuser]

there's docs on 6 in texas so far

[hpjtv]

Again, they are all American's stealing from an American company. Dish went after the big guy in Canada (the servers) but I don't think they could go after any small person in Canada.

[mj420]

I'm not to familiar with law, but if they go after one end user don't they have to go after all as to not descriminate?

[dishuser]

Again, they are all American's stealing from an American company. Dish went after the big guy in Canada (the servers) but I don't think they could go after any small person in Canada.

if they can go after justin they can go after his clients
it don't matter if they're in canada

[dishuser]

I'm not to familiar with law, but if they go after one end user don't they have to go after all as to not descriminate?

nope
they can pick whoever they want

[baseman]

if they can go after justin they can go after his clients
it don't matter if they're in canada

that goes back awhile eh???

[Le_Gnome]

DN is smart. They can single out a bunch of DA members, convict, then serve the rest with a "Dave" type letters for X amount of cash. To settle with hundreds on a cash settlement basis would make more sense! And increase their profits. Besides turning people off that type of "entertainment"!

[DaveJordon]

Makes you think twice about private iks.

[mj420]

I remember getting a letter from bev. a few years back.
They wanted all my pirate equipement and x-amount of dollars or they would take me to court.....or something to that effect.
It turned out to be a scare tactic.
But I guess with p$ info they would have a better case against end users than just proof of buying card readers etc..

[profit]

I posted this awhile back on an other site. <br />
<br />
The Canadian Covernment organized an org to combat piracy of all kinds. <br />
Satellite Signal theft activity violates the radio communication act. <br />
<br />
The...

[ft@t@lk™]

DN is smart. They can single out a bunch of DA members, convict, then serve the rest with a "Dave" type letters for X amount of cash. To settle with hundreds on a cash settlement basis would make more sense! And increase their profits. Besides turning people off that type of "entertainment"!

reminiscent of MAFIAA (RIAA and MPAA united) tactics although they stopped the practice recently

[el chido]

DA used to provide both Bev's and Dik's programming and usually asked for seeders on both sides of the borders. Unless a user up in Canada got Bev/Dik programming through Them, I Can see Dik pushing to get a conviction utilizing Bev's jurisdiction and legal power to persue, now the question is, since Dik is not at loss from a user up in Canada since legally Canadians cannot subscribe to Dik thanks to the powers of CRTC's decision, will It be worth It for Them to persue any case in Canadian Courts for the end user??....I can See bev seeing a loss, but Dik??....Anyone can entice Me on This??....

[profit]

The awswer is yes, Because cards are meant for one account (not Multiples) It is consider theft and the carrier can seek to enforce its rights in Canada , and can often do so in Canada.The end user is commiting the same crime as the feeder (accomplice liability)They can go after the end-user. the question is whether they will but, in terms of the rights to do so, they would be within their rights to go after the end users.

[dufta]

and as we have seen if they want to go after people in canada they can, will and have successfully.

[hondoharry]

Everybody always says 'get a sub'. Well these folks did and look what happened to them. ;)

[dishuser]

Everybody always says 'get a sub'. Well these folks did and look what happened to them. ;)

I'm sure those who say to sub mean from the provider not a sharer...lol

[stman]

Everybody always says 'get a sub'. Well these folks did and look what happened to them. ;)

Sorry, but they didn't have legal subs from DN. They were buying private service from DA.

[fifties]

It doesn't seem logical that an American satellite provider can get a judgment against a foreign national in their own country, when the service is not available to them, resulting in no actual loss, but yet Dave did, so the precedent has already been set.

If Dave had to set up a "business" in Canada in order to have court standing, Charlie can do the same...The groundwork has already been done.

So far, however, we only know of a few end users who have been sued, here in the U.S. IDK how many "subs" DA had, but it's curious as to why we don't hear of many cases being initiated, at least here in the states.

F.Raud told me that there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to how DN's S.I Dept. goes about things, and this seems to support that.

[stman]

LOL Fred should know. :D

[fifties]

LOL Fred should know. :D
That's why I cited him...:smilewinkgrin:

[JCO]

It doesn't seem logical that an American satellite provider can get a judgment against a foreign national in their own country, when the service is not available to them, resulting in no actual loss, but yet Dave did, so the precedent has already been set.

If Dave had to set up a "business" in Canada in order to have court standing, Charlie can do the same...The groundwork has already been done.

So far, however, we only know of a few end users who have been sued, here in the U.S. IDK how many "subs" DA had, but it's curious as to why we don't hear of many cases being initiated, at least here in the states.

F.Raud told me that there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to how DN's S.I Dept. goes about things, and this seems to support that.

Nagra and echostar are in Canada.. Both are Bell Suppliers..

[profit]

Nagra and echostar are in Canada.. Both are Bell Suppliers..

as far as I know, D*sh has tryed to enter the Canadian market, But has been refused by CRTC, there was even a court case over this ,and the courts agreed with the CRTC, citing that there was no Canadian contents in the programing.

Canadian D*sh users are liable for an $5000.00 fine, if the CMPDA wish to forced the issue.

[dishuser]

as far as I know, D*sh has tryed to enter the Canadian market, But has been refused by CRTC, there was even a court case over this ,and the courts agreed with the CRTC, citing that there was no Canadian contents in the programing.

Canadian D*sh users are liable for an $5000.00 fine, if the CMPDA wish to forced the issue.

tried?
before bev it was dish network canada

[profit]

tried?
before bev it was dish network canada

Yes TRIED,they (DISH ) took it (in 2002) to the supreme court of Canada and lost against the CRTC.

[dishuser]

Yes TRIED,they (DISH ) took it (in 2002) to the supreme court of Canada and lost against the CRTC.

they must've succeeded
I'm looking at one of their cams right now

[dishuser]

launched in September 1997, initially as "Dish Network Canada", followed by "ExpressVu Dish Network", in both cases using the Echostar logo
by 2000 Bell took over full ownership of ExpressVu

[profit]

launched in September 1997, initially as "Dish Network Canada", followed by "ExpressVu Dish Network", in both cases using the Echostar logo
by 2000 Bell took over full ownership of ExpressVu

Express Vu Launched service in 1997 as Express Vu Dish Network Canada, using the Echostar Logo.
Express Vu actually went with Echostar after a deal for Star Choice, to use the Echostar equipment ,fell apart.

Express Vu was the third DTV service launched in canada.
The first was Alphstar which launched in the spring of 1997 and failed in a few months, the second was Star Choice in the summer of 1997.
In 2000 bell took over full ownership of Express Vu

[dishuser]

Express Vu Launched service in 1997 as Express Vu Dish Network Canada, using the Echostar Logo.
Express Vu actually went with Echostar after a deal for Star Choice, to use the Echostar equipment ,fell apart.

Express Vu was the third DTV service launched in canada.
The first was Alphstar which launched in the spring of 1997 and failed in a few months, the second was Star Choice in the summer of 1997.
In 2000 bell took over full ownership of Express Vuyou basically posted same info...lol
which confirms my point they were already in canada

[profit]

[QUOTE=dishuser;374077]you basically posted same info...lol
which confirms my point they were already in canada[/QUOT.


And in 2002 the Liberal Government through the CRTC prevent Dish Networks from doing business in Canada, sounds like dirty politics to me. And it defy's the Canadian Constitution. I hate watching the 2 Canadian providers. Someone must have payed a large contribution to a political
party.LOL

[ftaskytv]

[QUOTE=dishuser;374077]you basically posted same info...lol
which confirms my point they were already in canada[/QUOT.


And in 2002 the Liberal Government through the CRTC prevent Dish Networks from doing business in Canada, sounds like dirty politics to me. And it defy's the Canadian Constitution. I hate watching the 2 Canadian providers. Someone must have payed a large contribution to a political
party.LOL

you are 200% right

[kutter]

And in 2002 the Liberal Government through the CRTC prevent Dish Networks from doing business in Canada, sounds like dirty politics to me. And it defy's the Canadian Constitution. I hate watching the 2 Canadian providers. Someone must have payed a large contribution to a political
party.LOL

The 2002 ruling by the Supreme Court had nothing to do with Dish Network and whether they could do business in Canada.

[profit]

The 2002 ruling by the Supreme Court had nothing to do with Dish Network and whether they could do business in Canada.


In 2002 the Supreme Court of Canada Slammed the door shut on Canadians and to this day, it is ILLIGAL for Canadians to watch satellite television signals that originate directly from the United States of America.

In October 2008, HBO Canada was launched and now offers Candians a selection of HBO programs,however it is not be the HBO that Americans see. If you want to see that, you'll have to commit a crime and that could cost you $5,000!!

[hondoharry]

Apparently there's no such ban on OTA channels. My overseas cable company carries the Buffalo FOX channel and half the ads are for Ontario businesses.

[plisskin]

The supreme court ruled in favour of keeping Canadians in the dark so the satellite providers in Canada can continue to control the market and force crappy progamming on people living there. So if Canadians could pay to get Sat service from the US they would and that's what scares the canadian providers because then they would lose revenue in the millions because US programming beats them out every time.

[kutter]

The supreme court ruled in favour of keeping Canadians in the dark so the satellite providers in Canada can continue to control the market and force crappy progamming on people living there. So if Canadians could pay to get Sat service from the US they would and that's what scares the canadian providers because then they would lose revenue in the millions because US programming beats them out every time.

That's a little closer to what actually happened ... the Supreme Court ruled on the interpretation of the law ... nothing was changed though ... it was illegal before and is still illegal after the ruling ...

Why don't you guys phone Dishnetwork or DirectTV and see if they will sell their service to you in Canada ?

They will not knowingly sell their service to anyone that's not in the US because that's the only place they are licensed to sell their services. It was that way before and after the ruling. You had to go through a third party that would set you up with a US billing address. Should be obvious to anyone that it's not on the level. You are tricking the provider into agreeing to sell their service to you. They have laws and regulations that they need to comply with also.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

That's a little closer to what actually happened ... the Supreme Court ruled on the interpretation of the law ... nothing was changed though ... it was illegal before and is still illegal after the ruling ...

Why don't you guys phone Dishnetwork or DirectTV and see if they will sell their service to you in Canada ?

They will not knowingly sell their service to anyone that's not in the US because that's the only place they are licensed to sell their services. It was that way before and after the ruling. You had to go through a third party that would set you up with a US billing address. Should be obvious to anyone that it's not on the level. You are tricking the provider into agreeing to sell their service to you. They have laws and regulations that they need to comply with also.


Well actually before the Supreme Court ruling courts had ruled it was legal. The BC court of appeals and Ontario Court of appeals. The case that went to the Supreme Court of Canada was the ruling from the BC court of appeals so I would say it was legal before the Supreme Court ruling as that was the highest court with a ruling at that time.



GS2

[profit]

In 1995 a lot of people bought there Satellite dish from Cosco and spend a lot of money. The growth in Dtv in Canada continued untill a federal election in 1997 which saw the Liberal government return to power, The CRTC and the federal government suddenly decided that in order to protect Canadian television industry , the Canadians should not watch "Illegal American broadcasts"
The results was legitimate service brokers who sold legitimate DISH and DIRECT TV programming packages were forced out of business.

For the next five years, Canadians fought the decisions by the Government to censor U.S.television broad cast in Canada.
However 2002 when the Courts shut the door.

I

[el chido]

That's Why I emphasize that the CRTC has gotta be the biggest Gestapo based crock of organization that is not helping Canadians, but imposing what The Big Telecommunication Corporations (Bell, Rogers) decide what We can watch!!...Man, It makes you wonder How much "Donations" under the table, along with Gifts The Big Guys contribute to Keep The CRTC Pigs Happy to rule in Their side!!....It really Disgusts Me, and Canadians Have Got to Speak Out and Stir Out!!....Let's Stop the closed door meetings CRTC has with The Big Guys and the sleeping with one another episodes for once and for All!!

[HammerSet]

anyway, justin is an idiot

last news, looks like he have handed his db to the dark side

1 report proof of pm with the second letter and fine grow to 5k

[kutter]

Well actually before the Supreme Court ruling courts had ruled it was legal. The BC court of appeals and Ontario Court of appeals. The case that went to the Supreme Court of Canada was the ruling from the BC court of appeals so I would say it was legal before the Supreme Court ruling as that was the highest court with a ruling at that time.



GS2

That's true. For the period between the first ruling and the Supreme Court ruling it would have been legal. My intent wasn't to defend the courts ruling or to defend parliaments involvement in the issue.

@profit ... 9.1 (c) was added to the Radio Communications Act in 1991 ... guess who the governing party was :)

[getittv]

I see all kinds of fraud here using all CAPITALIZED names all cap is a corporation is your name a CORPORATION no is not 2nd how and the hell can dick net own something the tax payers money sent the satellite up and its our tax dollars still maintaining it and then they privatized it now some greedy bleeps are getting rich from it the court system is set up for the damn rich and these courts don't even exist look at there oath of offices they changed we the people to (THIS STATE) look it up so now public servant's are protecting the state and who is the state PUBLIC SERVANT'S

[el chido]

Going Back to The Subject, and Unaware of How American Laws stand on This Case, maybe one of Our Valued Members can Inform Me, How Long does DN have to perceive a case like This against former DA Users before the courts rule inadmissible??....Servers were seized back at the beginning of August, and It's been more than Six months, which in some states specifies for a case to be posted within that time frame in Court , Unless You're in Texas I Guess!!.....

[JCO]

Going Back to The Subject, and Unaware of How American Laws stand on This Case, maybe one of Our Valued Members can Inform Me, How Long does DN have to perceive a case like This against former DA Users before the courts rule inadmissible??....Servers were seized back at the beginning of August, and It's been more than Six months, which in some states specifies for a case to be posted within that time frame in Court , Unless You're in Texas I Guess!!.....

I doubt that it prescribes in less than 4 years.. Its probably a lot more than that..

[HammerSet]

it have been discussed at another forum, 3 years in canada, 2 years in usa

kudos to kokes

for canada under Rc Act:


Under Jurisdiction of Federal Court

Limitation
18 (5) An action under subsection (1) may be commenced within, but not after, three years after the conduct giving rise to the action was engaged in.

19 (4) An action under subsection (1) may be commenced within, but not after, three years after the conduct giving rise to the action was engaged in.

Respecting prosecutions:
Limitation

10 (6) A prosecution for an offence under this Act may be commenced within, but not after, three years after the day on which the subject-matter of the offence arose.

[Turdblossom]

Obviously the all the problems in the Dark Angel case were the result of all records and devices at 1 location, and in Canada (not offshore).

Some have expressed concerns about Custom bins and wondered if Custom bins may also be on shore?

[kenkell1]

Obviously the all the problems in the Dark Angel case were the result of all records and devices at 1 location, and in Canada (not offshore).

Some have expressed concerns about Custom bins and wondered if Custom bins may also be on shore?

People should be very concerned about CustomFTAbins and it's owner. ;)

[Turdblossom]

People should be very concerned about CustomFTAbins and it's owner. ;)

Yup, someone you don't know is communicating with your box? jmo, but bad protocol

[HammerSet]

fear monger, :tehe::tehe::tehe:

[JCO]

Obviously the all the problems in the Dark Angel case were the result of all records and devices at 1 location, and in Canada (not offshore).

Some have expressed concerns about Custom bins and wondered if Custom bins may also be on shore?
Whois lookup gives this as info


Server Type:ApacheIP Address:64.191.115.3 Reverse-IP | Ping | DNS Lookup | Traceroute ASN:AS21788 IP Location: - California - Rancho Santa Margarita - Network Operations Center Inc Response Code:200Domain Status:Registered And Active Website

[Turdblossom]

I know he communicates with the customer's box to authorize the bin after payment, but what else can he do? monitor activity? and what if his server was seized? the whole thing just has that "big brother is watching" karma IMHO.

Or in other words, I don't need any third parties in my pc, stb, or pee-pee

[HammerSet]

I know he communicates with the customer's box to authorize the bin after payment, but what else can he do? monitor activity? and what if his server was seized? the whole thing just has that "big brother is watching" karma IMHO.

Or in other words, I don't need any third parties in my pc, stb, or pee-pee

the perfect iks server, should be able to erase all trace or log, every minute, almost ?

if you catch my drift ...

[alwatches]

the perfect iks server, should be able to erase all trace or log, every minute, almost ?

if you catch my drift ...

Yeah Hammer,

Perfect solution, just make it happen, minor detail. LOL
Didn't NFPS once say something to that effect? 8 to 12 months ago, might be wishful thinking on my part or selective memory or just old age. LOL

[HammerSet]

Yeah Hammer,

Perfect solution, just make it happen, minor detail. LOL
Didn't NFPS once say something to that effect? 8 to 12 months ago, might be wishful thinking on my part or selective memory or just old age. LOL

that is good news !!! if they can do that ---> :thumbsup:

you know what it mean ? the biggest evidence against end user, BLOWN away !!!

[Blaster]

Wishful thinking... What it all comes down to is greed and laziness. Greed is ultimately the drive that starts and doesn't stop, in the lines of they shoud've walked away while they were up type of thing. And laziness usually allows the big man to catch up to them.

My point is: how can one give a personal information to someone else in order to watch free tv? Someone else who you don't know and will never meet?

[Turdblossom]

Wishful thinking... What it all comes down to is greed and laziness. Greed is ultimately the drive that starts and doesn't stop, in the lines of they shoud've walked away while they were up type of thing. And laziness usually allows the big man to catch up to them.

My point is: how can one give a personal information to someone else in order to watch free tv? Someone else who you don't know and will never meet?



Amazing, ain't it!

[Ihaveanalibi]

As a point of fact , DA was tracked down using the database of the Rom10x forums . The User information being Used against them is from the payment processor so anyone who used legit means to pay is at risk but the information from previous PP is probably lost . The statement "everything located at the same location" is inaccurate , the forums were located in panama and any information used from that is most likely information that employees of JJ had .

So at the end of the Day no matter what you say on the internet or where you say it , if you have used actual information regarding your life you are at risk .

Trust everyone as far as you can spit , As much as I try my best spit is only a dribble

[dishuser]

As a point of fact , DA was tracked down using the database of the Rom10x forums . The User information being Used against them is from the payment processor so anyone who used legit means to pay is at risk but the information from previous PP is probably lost . The statement "everything located at the same location" is inaccurate , the forums were located in panama and any information used from that is most likely information that employees of JJ had .

So at the end of the Day no matter what you say on the internet or where you say it , if you have used actual information regarding your life you are at risk .

Trust everyone as far as you can spit , As much as I try my best spit is only a dribble

point of fact?
10x has been gone for years
long before N3

[Ihaveanalibi]

point of fact?
10x has been gone for years
long before N3

Yes , "point of fact" and not related to N3 .
dark angel / echelon was created and tracked in pm's on snaggs forums , simply put , any information you give online will come back to haunt you so stay out of the game or stay anonymous .

[dishuser]

Yes , "point of fact" and not related to N3 .
dark angel / echelon was created and tracked in pm's on snaggs forums , simply put , any information you give online will come back to haunt you so stay out of the game or stay anonymous .

his personal info including pic was posted on several sites years ago
so why did it take so long to bust him?

[kenkell1]

Why is thread still going? It is nothing but a bunch of hearsay and speculation and is starting to sound like a bunch of old women in a coffee shop~

[dishuser]

Why is thread still going? It is nothing but a bunch of hearsay and speculation and is starting to sound like a bunch of old women in a coffee shop~

hearsay?
it's a fact what I posted above

[kenkell1]

hearsay?
it's a fact what I posted above

Wasn't really referring to your thread because that was actually true.

[HammerSet]

Why is thread still going? It is nothing but a bunch of hearsay and speculation and is starting to sound like a bunch of old women in a coffee shop~

take a look at post #1

there is 9 case in trial

5 already settled with confidential settlement sum

1 is default judgment

[kenkell1]

take a look at post #1

there is 9 case in trial

5 already settled with confidential settlement sum

1 is default judgment

So?.......... your point is?

[HammerSet]

So?.......... your point is?

my point is that you "sound like a bunch of old women in a coffee shop~"

you get my point now ?? :comfort1:

[kenkell1]

my point is that you "sound like a bunch of old women in a coffee shop~"

you get my point now ?? :comfort1:

Nope I dont get your point.
As I said earlier....it is all hearsay until proven and I do not no one single end user that has ever been so called busted. Anyone can make fictious PDF files and post them anywhere.
Typical FTA rumour starting BS.
Whatever happens...happens and having this shat spread around doesn't make things any better. Some things are better off unsaid. Enough said~~~!

[dishuser]

Nope I dont get your point.
As I said earlier....it is all hearsay until proven and I do not no one single end user that has ever been so called busted. Anyone can make fictious PDF files and post them anywhere.
Typical FTA rumour starting BS.
Whatever happens...happens and having this shat spread around doesn't make things any better. Some things are better off unsaid. Enough said~~~!

so these end users made the newspaper but the pdf's are bogus?
hmmm

[HammerSet]

Nope I dont get your point.
As I said earlier....it is all hearsay until proven and I do not no one single end user that has ever been so called busted. Anyone can make fictious PDF files and post them anywhere.
Typical FTA rumour starting BS.
Whatever happens...happens and having this shat spread around doesn't make things any better. Some things are better off unsaid. Enough said~~~!

whatever

you said the pdf are fabricated, then you state: "Some things are better off unsaid"

you are not coherent ...

[kenkell1]

so these end users made the newspaper but the pdf's are bogus?
hmmm

Did they really make the news paper or was that DN spewing their crap as a scare tactic? You believe everything you read as well?

[JCO]

Lets play nice please, the articles were in the local papers websites..

[dishuser]

Did they really make the news paper or was that DN spewing their crap as a scare tactic? You believe everything you read as well?

ya it made the newspaper
and I believe it cause there was no retraction
why are you in denial?
they got DA's records
everyone will eventually get served
they're doing some cases in texas first though seeing as it's home to attorney for DN

[kenkell1]

lol, your too easy to play with... <br />
<br />
First of all 3 were charged and all 3 were DN seeders and 1 was also a mod for DA, something the news forgot to mention as they were not JUST subscribers of...

[dishuser]

more than 3 were charged <br />
and they weren't all seeders <br />
read the docs closer <br />
the receipts are provided as to what their role was <br />
they were end users

[HammerSet]

play ?? be more serious please, there is nothing funny in the demise of D.A., draging his users into problem ... <br />
<br />
3 were charged ? <br />
<br />
you talk about letter or court case ?

[kenkell1]

Not saying anymore about the subject. As I said earlier, don't believe everything you read.

[dishuser]

Not saying anymore about the subject. As I said earlier, don't believe everything you read.

duly noted
everything you post from now on will be considered fiction

[HammerSet]

next time, don't underestimate what the user know about legal issue

we maybe don't have the biggest collection of pdf docs

that doesn't mean the user wont stay up to date about that !!!

[kenkell1]

next time, don't underestimate what the user know about legal issue

we maybe don't have the biggest collection of pdf docs

that doesn't mean the user wont stay up to date about that !!!

LMAO that is exactly what I mean. You no nothing about any legal issue and should quit flapping your gums and go play with your remote.
As for you Dishuser, your typical BS lip service is boring ~Yawn~

[Nostradamus]

duly noted
everything you post from now on will be considered fiction

OMG LMFAO that has to be the best comeback I seen in ages

[dishuser]

LMAO that is exactly what I mean. You no nothing about any legal issue and should quit flapping your gums and go play with your remote.
As for you Dishuser, your typical BS lip service is boring ~Yawn~

for someone who lives in a fantasy land of course I'm boring to you
go read some dr.seuss

[HammerSet]

LMAO that is exactly what I mean. You no nothing about any legal issue and should quit flapping your gums and go play with your remote.
As for you Dishuser, your typical BS lip service is boring ~Yawn~

only thing you really succeed to mean in this thread is that you are a lost case :tehe:

[kenkell1]

only thing you really succeed to mean in this thread is that you are a lost case :tehe:

Ditto boy ;)

[HammerSet]

Ditto boy ;)

na, na, na

you got it right back in your eyes, admit it !!!

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz250/HammerSet/birdloose.jpg

[Anubis]

Here is a cut and paste from a user that posted at another site on Saturday....

c/p freeis4me

Just got legal ducument from dish lawyers wanting 3500.00 for damages
to dish for using dark angel service.Paer shows email messages
between me and darkangel.Plus subscription from regnow.
There threatening legal action.What should i do?They want 3500.00
and me to state i wont use iks anymore.Thanks.

[scotty25]

Has anyone ever taken these lastest DN threats to the courtroom? I am sure they sre making it cheaper to settle. What does DN claim as actual damages from an end user? That you would have bought DN's lousy service anyway? -

It would be a bad day in DN land if they picked on a person with legit sub - and it sounds like some of these "seeders" had subs. Something doesn't smell right - seeders paid DA - they have proof of payments to DA?

In an old Dick TV case the judge stated the end user having the ability wasn't sufficient and severely warned Dick TV to stop the BS unless they had a means of proving what the cunsumer was watching.

One (several) of the receiver manufactures need to fund a test case for a true end user, or maybe everyone needs to chip in a few bucks an individual can't take on DN alone. Are we sure this isn't a smoke and mirror DN tactic, you can sue anybody for anything, anytime and settle with a sealed agreement.

I have a 600HP camero in the garage doesn't prove I was speeding That the only purpose for have a 600HP engine makes about as much sense as "thats the only thing you can do with IKS" Next they'll confiscate Jeg's records and send everybody a ticket. What happened to innocent until proven guilty

( yeah I knoe this is a not a govt prosecution but I think they are hanging their hat on DMCA) - disclaimer I am a non attorney spokes person

[Anubis]

Has anyone ever taken these lastest DN threats to the courtroom? I am sure they sre making it cheaper to settle. What does DN claim as actual damages from an end user? That you would have bought DN's lousy service anyway? -

It would be a bad day in DN land if they picked on a person with legit sub - and it sounds like some of these "seeders" had subs. Something doesn't smell right - seeders paid DA - they have proof of payments to DA?

In an old Dick TV case the judge stated the end user having the ability wasn't sufficient and severely warned Dick TV to stop the BS unless they had a means of proving what the cunsumer was watching.

One (several) of the receiver manufactures need to fund a test case for a true end user, or maybe everyone needs to chip in a few bucks an individual can't take on DN alone. Are we sure this isn't a smoke and mirror DN tactic, you can sue anybody for anything, anytime and settle with a sealed agreement.

I have a 600HP camero in the garage doesn't prove I was speeding That the only purpose for have a 600HP engine makes about as much sense as "thats the only thing you can do with IKS" Next they'll confiscate Jeg's records and send everybody a ticket. What happened to innocent until proven guilty

( yeah I knoe this is a not a govt prosecution but I think they are hanging their hat on DMCA) - disclaimer I am a non attorney spokes person

That's a few million for a suicide mission.:tehe:

[HammerSet]

where do you read that seeder paid D.A. ?

you cannot compare DTV case vs DN case IKS, the evidence are not the same at all


please take a look at this post, it will answer one of your question at least


take a look at post #1

there is 9 case in trial

5 already settled with confidential settlement sum

1 is default judgment

[TLG]

I'll start off by saying that I don't know the laws,, plus there are different laws in every state and in every province.. <br />
but, the above poster is correct in saying that &quot;innocent until proven...

[profit]

Dont confuse criminal law with civil law, two different matters,. <br />
<br />
I dont want to debate this ,for it has been debated to death.it is simple ,the providers CAN, if they want to go after the END...

[kenkell1]

You are bang dead on ;) <br />
<br />
I was using the language I was using because it is overly apparent that some here get all pissy pants and I just jab and have fun lol. <br />
<br />
It is all a game. Nothing more and...

[exe2]

AFAIK the end users are not being threatened/sued for using this or that brand of IRD, but for contracting an illegal service agreement of copyrighted material, which is owned by DN. The excuse that one didn't know it was copyright wont hold up. Even if you used an original DN ird that will not get you off the hook.

[profit]

You are bang dead on ;)

I was using the language I was using because it is overly apparent that some here get all pissy pants and I just jab and have fun lol.

It is all a game. Nothing more and nothing less but listening to armchair lawyers makes me want to laugh, especially when it comes to ends users.

Your ignorants is shinning thru, You dont know anything about me, or my profession.
I was providing General Legal information NOT LEGAL ADVICE.

As you well know IKS is illegal, because the cards are meant for one account (not multiples) it would be considered theft and the carrier CAN seek to enforce its rights. As they often do so successfully.


I hope your having a good laugh , it shows your level of education.

[Nostradamus]

Has anyone ever taken these lastest DN threats to the courtroom? I am sure they sre making it cheaper to settle. What does DN claim as actual damages from an end user? That you would have bought DN's lousy service anyway? -

It would be a bad day in DN land if they picked on a person with legit sub - and it sounds like some of these "seeders" had subs. Something doesn't smell right - seeders paid DA - they have proof of payments to DA?

In an old Dick TV case the judge stated the end user having the ability wasn't sufficient and severely warned Dick TV to stop the BS unless they had a means of proving what the cunsumer was watching.

One (several) of the receiver manufactures need to fund a test case for a true end user, or maybe everyone needs to chip in a few bucks an individual can't take on DN alone. Are we sure this isn't a smoke and mirror DN tactic, you can sue anybody for anything, anytime and settle with a sealed agreement.

I have a 600HP camero in the garage doesn't prove I was speeding That the only purpose for have a 600HP engine makes about as much sense as "thats the only thing you can do with IKS" Next they'll confiscate Jeg's records and send everybody a ticket. What happened to innocent until proven guilty

( yeah I knoe this is a not a govt prosecution but I think they are hanging their hat on DMCA) - disclaimer I am a non attorney spokes person

ummm things have changed a lot , I suggest you go do some reading to catch up and start with the Evidence 101 class

In an old Dick TV case the judge stated the end user having the ability wasn't sufficient and severely warned Dick TV to stop the BS unless they had a means of proving what the cunsumer was watching.

there is proof ... IP & server logs

[scotty25]

Ever hear of a proxy server, dynamic IP or wireless sharing? Wasn't there a big snafu in the news about a neighbor borrowing someones wireless signal and they arrested the wrong person by his IP. Isn't wireless sharing up to about 8 miles now with a 3' antenna?

And that packet my router keeps sending-receiving was actually caused by a computer virus.

Yes an IP can be traced by some creative packet sniffing, but DN is going to get comcast to spend thousands to turn over ip traces? its not a matter of national security If it was that easy the seeding servers would be shut down in minutes

[HammerSet]

Ever hear of a proxy server, dynamic IP or wireless sharing? Wasn't there a big snafu in the news about a neighbor borrowing someones wireless signal and they arrested the wrong person by his IP. Isn't wireless sharing up to about 8 miles now with a 3' antenna?

And that packet my router keeps sending-receiving was actually caused by a computer virus.

Yes an IP can be traced by some creative packet sniffing, but DN is going to get comcast to spend thousands to turn over ip traces? its not a matter of national security If it was that easy the seeding servers would be shut down in minutes

they got the invoice of service purchase of D.A.

i.p. was not needed ...

now this is for private iks, not public

it is all about the evidence they get, evidence have to be strong enough, as for any court trial in any kind of law violation

[kenkell1]

Your ignorants is shinning thru, You dont know anything about me, or my profession.
I was providing General Legal information NOT LEGAL ADVICE.

As you well know IKS is illegal, because the cards are meant for one account (not multiples) it would be considered theft and the carrier CAN seek to enforce its rights. As they often do so successfully.


I hope your having a good laugh , it shows your level of education.

Sounds to me like your DN narc ;)....a sacastic one at that.

[profit]

Sounds to me like your DN narc ;)....a sacastic one at that.

Most likely YOUR the NARC, by given erroneous advice/ and or Statements to members that initiate the opportunity for more law suits.

[HammerSet]

Sounds to me like your DN narc ;)....a sacastic one at that.

useless dribble ...

go learn, instead of spreading misinformation !

[kenkell1]

Most likely YOUR the NARC, by given erroneous advice/ and or Statements to members that initiate the opportunity for more law suits.

lol ok, whatever you say. As for you saying I gave erroneous advice to anyone about this ridiculous subject your wrong. I never gave anyone any advice on this subject because unlike you and hammerhead I am not a know it all lippy armchair lawyer that knows pretty much nothing about anything when it come to satellite tv or iks for that matter.
Now carry on and go do some reading and as I said a while back, don't believe everything you read.
Your certainly not making things any better for this case or anyone involved for that matter!

[profit]

Who do you call the lippy armchair Lawyer? Do I call you the Moron, that thinks he knows it all? First I saw the court documents ,of the 3 charged ,they were NOT seeders.That was your statement. You...

[kenkell1]

Read post #110 and then see who is name calling and who started it first!!! <br />
Now don't cry and if you cant handle the heat then get out of the kitchen. ;) <br />
Once again your not making things any...

[Just_angel]

pointless leaving this open

i already said play nice...guess thats not gonna happen

closed