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View Full Version : Should Cortez have let Kirkland keep fighting against Ishida?



Gamer
04-12-2011, 05:22 AM
C/p from boxingnews24
Posted By Chris Williams: They say that James Kirkland (27-1, 24 KO’s) got knocked down four times against Nobuhiro Ishida (23-6-2, 8 KO’s) last Saturday night – three times by Ishida and once by referee Joe Cortez when he tackled Kirkland as he was trying to get back up after his third trip to the canvas.
There has been differing opinions on whether Cortez should have halted the fight there and then after Kirkland couldn’t stay on his feet against the fast punching Ishida. Some boxing fans felt that Cortez stopped the fight too quickly, and that Kirkland would have weathered the 1st round storm from Ishida to come back in the next round. Kirkland has proven in the past that he can get up off the deck and still win.
He was knocked down quite so many times like he was against Ishida, though. Did Cortez mess Kirkland’s chances of coming back up by keeping him down after the last knockdown or was Kirkland doomed from that point to continue to be knocked down? It’s hard to say really, because Kirkland didn’t look hurt and was still throwing punches with a lot of power. If you look at the fight in slow motion like I did, Kirkland was snapping Ishida’s head back with shots right up until the final knockdown.
All Kirkland needed was a little more time and he might have caught Ishida and ended matters. Cortez kept Kirkland from getting to his feet for some reason. As Kirkland pointed out later, there wasn’t a three knockdown rule in effect for the fight.
As such, Kirkland should have been able to get back up as many times as he wanted to try and win the fight. I guess we’ll never really know what Kirkland could have done because Cortez stopped the fight before Kirkland could prove who the better fighter was.

aquariusone
04-12-2011, 06:42 PM
You know, my friend, I get sick and tired of writers (pseudo-writers) like Chris Williams. This is the same person with bias against Manny Pacquiao, or perhaps against boxers who are not from the US. To second-guess a well respected and seasoned veteran referee, Joe Cortez, is to cast aspersion on the entire judging-refereeing process. Referees are not there to "allow a boxer to recover and win" or to "contribute to a loss". They are there to administer the rules, and most importantly, "to protect a combatant against the serious risk of injury".

Joe Cortez acted as appropriately as a referee should being right there in the ring with Kirkland and seeing first hand the effects of punches thrown at him by Ishida. He is not concerned with whether or not Kirkland "deserves to take more punishment" and "maybe have a chance to overcome Ishida in the later rounds". Cortez does not, and should not, give a damn about that or about "Chris Williams watching a tv replay in slow motion of the magnitude of Kirkland's counter punches".

To insinuate that Joe Cortez erred by stopping the fight is hogwash. Chris Williams' flea-brain pronouncements are far out if not stupid. He should find another job - like car detailing Tiger's SUV or something.

rudee
04-12-2011, 07:13 PM
Totally agree with Aquairius on this one... Kirkland showed up for a quick paycheck.. you could see that... who the hell knows or cares what woulda happen in the later rounds..
its whats happening now that counts....
This is like having E.D. and telling yer girlfriend to hang around for 10 more years and maybe things will get better!!!! they won't!
Anyway,,, Cortez has had his bad days as we all have... but he is a good referree... he did the right thing on this one.
Hopefully Kirkland got to the airport on time.
Now Aquarius,,, on yer comment that Eric M. is still great..... hmmmm,,, gonna beg to differ on that one... if he was still great he woulda beaten
Maidana... cuz Maidana ain't much more than a plodder.... Gene Fullmer type... but not nearly as good.

aquariusone
04-12-2011, 07:29 PM
Well, let us put it this way: turn back the clock 3/4 years on Eric Morales and I can tell you Maidana would be licking Eric's shoelaces. Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick beat Ali....regardless he is still "the Greatest", right?

But I have to agree with you on Maidana....plodder and crude.

Fibroso
04-12-2011, 08:18 PM
Maidana has cojones, a good chin and has a good punch. Any boxer with this combination can scare the hell of any super-pugilist. Cortez constant intervention is his fight with Khan and the punch he took early in the fight, made him lose. Here we are discussing another intervention by my fellow puertorican. "Create fame and go to sleep" is my only comment on this one.

rokko
04-12-2011, 08:26 PM
kirkland had 3 fights in 5 weeks. not enough time to recover.plus he underestimated ishida.cortez sucks but he did the right thing .

Gamer
04-12-2011, 08:42 PM
All I will comment on this is that the ref should of let him stand up on his own and not hold him down.Then if he stopped it I would not have an issue with that.Also I wonder where was the ring doctor in this fight.Morales eye was shut and if it were any other fight it would have been stopped.If he has any eye damage then we all be complaining why the fight was not stopped. Jmo

rokko
04-12-2011, 10:56 PM
All I will comment on this is that the ref should of let him stand up on his own and not hold him down.Then if he stopped it I would not have an issue with that.Also I wonder where was the ring doctor in this fight.Morales eye was shut and if it were any other fight it would have been stopped.If he has any eye damage then we all be complaining why the fight was not stopped. Jmo

you are right about the ref letting him stand up and he should not have jumped him but he was done. he would have been knocked down again

Gamer
04-12-2011, 11:22 PM
I saw him trying to get up and it was a flash knockdown.There was no 3 knockdown rule in effect.Also the ref in the katsidis fight had some questionable quick 2 point deductions for low blows.The ref had the hots for katsidis and what do you see at the end of the fight.Guerrero congratulating the ref and giving him a hug.

rudee
04-13-2011, 02:23 AM
i agree on the 2 point deduction.. totally unwarranted,,, but Guerrero didnt need any help.... he probably won 11 of 12 rounds. Ref blew the knockdown fer sure... his gloves
did touch the canvas.
But all in all the fight was pretty one sided. Luckily the ref's bad judgement didnt come into play..
It is time for Katsidis to consider retirement.... same fight style as Maidana... a plodder that a good fighter will totally dominate. As Guererro did.