my mini bud :-)

[xilbus]

Hey Guys,

Just got my mini bud working today
1m winegard dish
cband lnb with scalar
s9 open box
This is what i got scanned in up till now with
89 galaxy 28: 29ch 14 radio
91 : 27 channels includes 3 CW and a ppv channels and reelz
95 galaxy 3c: 2 channels
97 galaxy 19: 7 channels
amc 16: 27 channels : 15 radio
amc2: 5 channels
Anik F2: 7 channels
Anik F3: 11 channels locals from the states and some mexican channels

took me a while trials and errors but i finally got it and its well worth it.

[satchick]

Looks cool, I'm really tempted to try it... What's your location?

[xilbus]

Thanks, im in Gatineau Quebec Canada
Its overcast right now and all the channels are comming in clear between 60 and 75% quality

[WillDekkard]

What model of LNBF are you using? Sounds like you have had great results. I have less then par results with my mini-bud and I am thinking it is the LNBF and/or the receiver that I'm using. On 91 for instance, I am not receiving the CWs and the scrambled FOX channels come in strong - I may need to go and play with the LNB position again? lol.

[xilbus]

Will,
im using a BSC421 C-band LNB. you have to enter the cw channels manually with the vpid and apid and pcr on 91w. they wont show up in a blind scan or even a tp scan. i had to go enter them in my receiver and then rebooted my receiver and voila i got the 3 cw channels at 65% with overcast and a bit of rain.
here is a great list of fta channels. click on 91 and the cw are at the top
http://www.ftalist.co.cc/?page_id=41

[Silverado]

How do manually enter the pid's on the openbox S9?

[Muffin1216]

that is very cool ! great thread

[Costactc]

I'm just scratching my head as to how you input pid numbers into an openbox. I couldn't on my openbox, I had to flash a file to my stb for those CW channels. Nonetheless, great thread and good to hear your having good results.

[xilbus]

you need a app called ali editor, you dump your tp file to usb open the tp file with ali editor then go search for the sat you want to edit , then you add the channels
resave and re upload to the s9 :-)

[Costactc]

Sounds a bit complicated but whatever works. Awesome results with a 1m dish.

[xilbus]

thanks :-) i have some more fine tuning to do, last night i wasnt able to get a good signal on the fx channels tp on 91. those are channels that i would like.

[Costactc]

Always a good sign when a member is testing c band fta. Unfortunately the s2 channels will not scan in, dish is too undersized.

[Terryl]

Hummmmm, I have the same dish, I wounder if this LNB would work for this type of setup?


http://www.cyberestore.com/satellite/lnbs/bsc621-2d-dedicated-c-and-ku-band-lnb.html

What do you "C" band guys think?

[Costactc]

Of course it would Terry, I've used that lnbf before with great results- just found that ku signals were a bit weaker then what they should have been.

[xilbus]

Terry i read that the lnb that you posted is not good for the ku part, because the ku section is at the back and for the cband part you really need to push it as back as possible so the ku part would be out of phase.

[Costactc]

Ku section is always at the back of a dual lnbf feed. I have my bands on seperate dishes. I'm sure Terry would have great results with just a c band dedicated lnbf.

[Terryl]

No room on the current mounting mast for 2 dishes, and putting in a dedicated "C" band only dish is out as I don't have the clearance for the "C" band, a small hill and too many nice shade trees are in the way for anything west of 97 where it would have to be mounted, the current dish I have for Ku is just clearing the top of the hill,(and trees) that's why its on a 15 foot mast and that side of the garage, I can scan from 61W to 180W (and a tad bit further on each side) with the current mounting.

I don't have the resources for putting a "C" band dish at the same location, it would be a nice job, but digging the foundation for a 20 foot+ mast into the granite would be too hard on old me.

This is why I would be looking into this type of setup, "C" band on my 1 meter dish with "Ku" would work out just fine, if I get the energy to do the job.

[xilbus]

Terry you should get a sidecar like in my picture. get a spitfire 0.1 noise ku lnb you will be able to get great results with that.

[Terryl]

If I'm going to go through all the trouble to bring the dish down to do this mod I want all my LNBs to be at and in the prime focal area, they tend to work better where there supposed to be.

Mounting a second LNB off to the side like that tends to get it into that gray area, and where my dish is mounted and how high it's off the roof line tends to rule out and tweaking after its mounted, I don't work to good on 30 foot tall ladders anymore, and the Doctors have ruled out any roof work for me, I tend to want to fall off them too easy.

I do my calculations and work on the ground, raise the mast and tune it to the marks, it usually works out fine after that, but that's with a single LNB.

[xilbus]

well Terry if i was you i would try out the lnb that you posted. if you recall with the 1m winegard two lnb holders came in the package. use the bigger one and get some long screws, i used long tapcon screws. The bigger lnb holder is a 50mm but the cbands are 65mm. With the long screws its going to be a bit tight but it will fit nicely.

The problem with the winegard dishes is that the arm is wider then all the rest and generic lnb holders dont fit.

after the kids are in bed ill be going back out to try my luck with the FX channels tp on 91. If i get 70% quality on the cw channels i should be able to get the FX

[xilbus]

no luck on the fx channels on 3800 H 30000 ive turned the lnb at multiple positions and nothing max quality is always 8%.
im going to try bumping the dish with the motor a bit to see if that will produce any results.

[xilbus]

no luck with the motor bumping, i was able to max out the cw tp but no change to the fx tp. ill have to try something els.

[jvvh5897]

I've also been using a 1M dish for C band and I've found some of the TPs just will not come in no matter how you tweek things. I do run a Ku band LNB about 10 degrees to one side (helps me get back on a specific bird when I've played with dish), but have found the tweeks needed for C LNB mean that a built in Ku band LNB never works very well. All these newer cheap C band LNBs seem to be built about the same so that BSC621-2D looks pretty much the same as the DMX741u--when you look down the throat of the waveguide, the probes are staggered with a reflecting "pole" behind one of them--they are cheap and look kind of cheap too but do seem to work OK with some signals, some of the time. I use the C band signals quite a bit but the tweeks required on a non-motor set-up mean that I could never get away with a dish 15' up in the air.

Original poster is getting lots better results than I would have expected (I don't have s9 box or other HD box type so I'm limited to SD and that seems to be a bad thing now).

[Terryl]

I'd love to get a "C" band setup but it would also have to include "Ku" band as I watch the PBS HD channel on 125 a lot.

This is the only location I could put the motorized system, (see photo) as the roof at the main house is full of other antennas, this setup gives me a full view of my part of the Clark belt as it clears the hill and trees to its east for 61W.

If I put a new C/Ku LNB on this 1 meter dish I maybe can get some of the Oriental/Australian satellites out past 180W.

But as you can see by the photo I would have to replace the current setup with a 4" pole 20 feet tall for roof clearance and mount the 10 footer on it, too big a job for me right now.10439

[xilbus]

I've also been using a 1M dish for C band and I've found some of the TPs just will not come in no matter how you tweek things. I do run a Ku band LNB about 10 degrees to one side (helps me get back on a specific bird when I've played with dish), but have found the tweeks needed for C LNB mean that a built in Ku band LNB never works very well. All these newer cheap C band LNBs seem to be built about the same so that BSC621-2D looks pretty much the same as the DMX741u--when you look down the throat of the waveguide, the probes are staggered with a reflecting "pole" behind one of them--they are cheap and look kind of cheap too but do seem to work OK with some signals, some of the time. I use the C band signals quite a bit but the tweeks required on a non-motor set-up mean that I could never get away with a dish 15' up in the air.

Original poster is getting lots better results than I would have expected (I don't have s9 box or other HD box type so I'm limited to SD and that seems to be a bad thing now).

jvvh5897 what is the brand name of your 1m dish? some market their dish as a 1m but use the height of the dish to mesure.
my winegard is 105cm wide and is rated 40 db wich is as good as some 1.2m dishes out there.
I just ordered a geosatpro 1.2m dish from a montreal shop so this weekend or next week i will be able to compare results
the geosatpro is rated 43db and the 3 added db will make a difference on the week tp`s paired up with a sensitive receiver like the s9.

[xilbus]

I'd love to get a "C" band setup but it would also have to include "Ku" band as I watch the PBS HD channel on 125 a lot.

This is the only location I could put the motorized system, (see photo) as the roof at the main house is full of other antennas, this setup gives me a full view of my part of the Clark belt as it clears the hill and trees to its east for 61W.

If I put a new C/Ku LNB on this 1 meter dish I maybe can get some of the Oriental/Australian satellites out past 180W.

But as you can see by the photo I would have to replace the current setup with a 4" pole 20 feet tall for roof clearance and mount the 10 footer on it, too big a job for me right now.10439

Thanks Terry for the pic thats a nice setup you got there. I also love the pbs feeds on 125 psb has some very good programming, im in love with nova and the kids like pbs kids.

im going to try some more tonight to try and get the fx channels to come in. ill report back later on

[jvvh5897]

It is primestar/channel master 1M, measures 40 by 44 inch, 24 inch focal length, 22.5 degree offset but to make LNB fit on the arms I am running it as if it were 17.5 degree offset. C band gain looks to be about 31dB and it may be slightly blocked by building to the south (would have been definately clear if the pole was 6 inches higher, but that is the best I could do when I put it in and only expected to do Ku--don't know if blocked by more than the lower few inches or how that might affect things--can a building roof edge act as interferance edge producing fringes?). I get the 99 degree sat with about 1 dB margin (Q of 45 with box that goes to pixels when Q get to 37)--that means that if I am in the 42 dBm contour for 99 bird, that when I look at lyngsat info for other birds if I don't see 41 dBm or better, I need not even try to point at it.

Oh, and I don't get much of anything with a flat scaler ring, the stepped conical scaller is OK and LNB sticks out about half way between the lowest edge and the first step for best signal. Had to do lots and lots of tweeking on the LNB position in scaler and did not ever think I would get the PR/Virgin Is mux well enough to watch it as I was tweeking the Lysat channels and it turns out the tweek for one is not the best for the other on this setup.

[xilbus]

Hey Jvv
so your lnb is not completely towards the back? what were your results when its completely at the back? because most people receive best results if the conical scalar ring is right at the edge of the lnb and almost falling off and the lnb competely pushed back. To be honest i havent tried the lnb at half way.
are you talking about the nbc virgin ils mux on 118.8 ? thats a good channel, ive been watching it allot.

[Costactc]

I'm not sure if this applies just to a 1m dish but my lnbf is at least 2" past my scalar ring.

[xilbus]

I'm not sure if this applies just to a 1m dish but my lnbf is at least 2" past my scalar ring.

you have a prime focus dish? its different yes for offset dishes. It has to do with the c-band signal not bouncing correctly on a offset

[Solsantenudist]

Hello
Everybody seems to be putting their two cents worth so here are a couple of pennies more.
I've been using a old convert 1.2m dish I was given 2 years ago the begining of my C-band life.
Have been enjoying every mininute of it. It uses a DMX-741 Lnb C and Ku band, and a modified Sg2100
motor, being that the dish weighs 48 pounds. I won't bore you with the mods to the motor but it does the
job and has proved to be very reliable to say the least. I used the conical scalar ring at first and played with
the standard scalar next. The results I received with the conical were the best of the two but not good enough
for all the Sats. meaning Fox, Reels, and many other low power transponders. I also found there to be a 1/2 degree
spread on some of the Tps. so scanning them in would take a couple of tries by moving the motor left and rigth that 1/2
a degree. I'm sure this is because it is an off set dish an has a little boarder Q than a prime focus dish. Also experimenting with the correct positioning of the Lnb leaves a fine line in receiving a transponder or not.
I did a lot of reading on dish design and scalar rings first thing I found out about the Lnb is the plastic cap that covers
the thoat of the Lnb if removed made a difference of 10 points on the quality reading it depends how dense the plastic
cap material is and with a small dish every db of gain is very important so I replace it with a piece of Kapton material
which now is like a clear window to the signal passing threw.
Next came making my own scalar ring there may be some sceptics out there but I experimented for many hours
trail by fire and came up with a very interesting scalar ring design made from a stainless salid bowl with focial point in
the right position which gathers a lot more energy at the Lnb's focial point making a substancial quality gain on the receiver.
Here are a few pictures so don't give up on your experimenting because you can receive most all the Sat's. with 1.2meter
dish I'm at the 3450 foot level this helps with a clear view. I use a Open box S9 and have and try many others so far this is
the best all round receiver, I have 2 AzBox receivers on the way from China should be here Monday want to try them
to so what they are like $180.00 each deliveried free shipping. Anyway that's my spare change on the subject.

ps sorry spelling that's not my best subject. I guess entering pictures may not be a good subject either I'll try.

[Solsantenudist]

Hello again
How do I go about attaching picture files to my text file.
Thanks

[xilbus]

Thanks for your Post :-)
After you click on reply, click on the go advanced button and you will see a picture icon that will let you browse on your computer to your pictures.
Im going to take your suggestion and ill remove the plastic cap. Is the plastic cap just there to protect the inner tube from rain or does it have a use?

[jvvh5897]

The cap is just there for rain. Interesting observation though, never thought to pull the cap off as always thought most plastic was pretty transparent to microwaves (it is the plastics with fluoride or chlorine that have dielectric properties that are microwave reactive, plastics that are largely just hydrocarbon have little dielectric effect on microwaves).

Yep, the best spot for me seems to be into scaler--actually closer to 3/4 way to first ring than 1/2. when I pull off the scaler the signal drops pretty quick, can't really push the ring further back much but the rate of change is slow and decreasing Q. Tried a bunch of positions and where I end up is always pretty much the same. The LNB ends up further forward than one would expect too, I set up the mount so that I could move it back at first and ended up reversing everything to get more forward. The focal point is just inside the front end of the tube of the LNB.

Read the Paul Wade stuff on satellite dish scalers and have been thinking of trying a few designs out, measured the standard conical horn scaler of a standard offset Ku band LNB thinking that it might be the better match than just a stepped ring scaler, but from what Wade says (or how I read it anyway) the design of the scaler shapes how much of the edge of the dish you see and a flat scaler should see more of the edge than stepped or conical and so should give the greatest signal. Clearly more is going on than I know right now.

[xilbus]

just a update =
i went out to the dish to remove the lnb plastic cap and it didnt change anything in quality.I pushed the lnb towards the dish and the quality droped. i pushed back the conical scalar and it didnt change anything. So i brought back the lnb back even more then the original place that it was at the begining and i pushed the scalar ring right at the edge of falling off.
I got ennought of a quality gain that im getting realz on 91 with a snr of 10 on the s9 openbox :-) i didnt have it before so im happy. im watching event horizon at the moment :-)

[jvvh5897]

I tried removing the cap too--no change in readings.

Gain for a 1.2M dish is about 1.5dB higher than my 1M (1.2/1 squared== 1.44 linear)--so where I have readings around 50 Q I would expect you to get readings around 70 or so. And you should be able to get those sats that you have 40dBm contour or higher. Assuming similar Q meter readings in both boxes of course.

[iq180]

the cap is for more than rain, with out the cap you will have bugs and spiders in it and then you will have a real problem.

[cozumel111]

can you post a photo of your motor setup, thanks.

[swingbozo]

Thumbs up to all the posters in this "mini-bud" thread!

[Terryl]

Yes a big thumbs up, this is good testing, this is also why I asked for its own section, so this will not get buried the BUD section.

[xilbus]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to update you guys on my c-band project. I successfully switched dishes. My initial reaction to the switch is slightly happy in some areas and slightly dissapointed in other areas.

1st of all i had to order a new tube for the sg2100 motor because the u-bolt mount system for the geosat is not compatible with 42mm tubes.
even with the 50mm tube i got here at fridge i had to add 2 washers and some material around the tube-please see attached pictures.
without the washers the u-bolts were still extremely loose on the 50mm tube.

Now for the result. I got 43 channels on 91w with the geosat compared to 22 with the winegard. but the added channels are mostly 4:2:2 that i cannot watch. I wished to be able to receive fx however i still cannot pick up at transponder. Last night i was able to pick up reelz however after work today I lost the transponder even after bumping the motor some. Maybe it will come back after sunset. But please note that i did not play around lots with the lnb placing. Maybe if i play more with the placing ill be able to add some more power to reelz.
TP 3720 went from 56% max on the winegard to 71% max with the geosat.

On Anik F3 i was able to add 3 channels the cox sports channels that i was not able to receive with the winegard. Also the virgin island 10 channels are a bit stronger so no more pixalation.

I added the 421 lnb last night so i havent had time to do lots of testing but this is the results up till now with the two sats 91 and Anik f3.

I will have to add the spitfire on the side with the av satellite sidecar kit and hopefully ill get some better results then with the winegard

[Terryl]

Great photos and a great job on the adapting.

One hint, put the flat washers under the lock washers, it should go, mounting bracket, flat washer, lock washer, nut.

And as for the spacing material is it weather proof?

If not then go get a piece of 2" EMT conduit and cut to length, then (this is a pain to do) you split it down the middle with a hack saw, then you can use it as a spacer, if this still tends to move around you could drill and use a through bolt (2 1/2" x 1/4") this keeps things nice and tight.

[xilbus]

Thanks Terry,
your right about the washers thanks for the suggestion, im giving my winegard to my dad and allong with the motor. I have a motor on the way with a 55mm tube that should help allot with the spacing issue. the material on the tube came with the winegard kit, im not too sure why it came with the winegard kit but im sure its weather resistant.

Its 8:40pm now and the reelz tp is now comming in with 90% signal and 25% quality. Thats just with the sun going down. with the kids in bed im going out to try and max out the signal. I love this project :-)

[jvvh5897]

It is fun to see what you can get with this stuff--often a frustration/mystery that you can get some, but you wish for others. Still you do get programing that you would not get on KU band.

[Terryl]

And with the right rotor you can do some stellar listening to some of the intergalactic noises from some of the local Quasars, Cassiopeia is one that is fun to listen to late at night.

I had a friend (sorry to say he has passed on) that modified an old 10 footer with a HAM satellite tracking rotor and a multi element antenna, he covered all the sky 360 degrees and 0 to 90 in elevation. this would be fun but the Yaesu G-5500 rotor is big $$$.

[xilbus]

106571065610658

Hey guys, got to play around with the dish allot today. I changed the position of the side arms down, this gives me more room to play with the scalars. I found that i get better signal with the lnb flush with the 1st step of the conical scalar.
With this i now get 61 c-band channels on 91w. reelz comes in strong and i now get the 3800 H tp that has the FX channels ,big ten and a ppv and alt channels :-)

now i want to go back out and put the flat scalar on.

[xilbus]

I tried to push back completely the lnb and put the conical scalar back to the edge and i lost about 10 to 12% on 91w. same for the flat scalar i tried many positions and the max i got with the flat was 60% on 3720 H on 91w. So i had to go back to having the conical and having the lnb flush with the 1st step.

[brotherstores]

Stupid question here for most all of you...

What receiver are you using?

[xilbus]

its not a stupid question at all, you cant know all of the receivers out there. I have a openbox S9.

[xilbus]

another picture, this is disney xd ITC

[jvvh5897]

I got to playing too, moved dish to point at 118.8 and got what looks like some of the old Equity channels on the only C band TP lyngsat lists--signal is right at the noise level but drop outs are not that bad. A couple of channels have good stuff for me and the trees in that direction may not grow to block the sight line for a year or two.

[Terryl]

Nice photos Xilbus, here is a hint, try a small piece of electrical tape over the flash on the camera and get a bit closer to the TV, this will avoid the flash back on the photos.

And some cameras have a function to turn the flash off, the TV will provide enough light.

[xilbus]

sorry Terry my wife is the pro with the camera lol but ill try next time :-) you guys should post some pictures too :-)

[xilbus]

I got to playing too, moved dish to point at 118.8 and got what looks like some of the old Equity channels on the only C band TP lyngsat lists--signal is right at the noise level but drop outs are not that bad. A couple of channels have good stuff for me and the trees in that direction may not grow to block the sight line for a year or two.

what receiver are you using? 118.8 has some great c-band channels that are receivable with a small dish. theres a virgin island mux nbc,mytv,cw, cox sports and juwel tv in HD for the wifes lol.
Napalm those trees hehe

[jvvh5897]

I generally use a coolsat 4000 pro clone, but blind search with another box since that cs4k does not have the feature. I've tried other boxes with the minibud, but I don't seem to get any better result with them (some have slightly different meter readings and maybe higher noise levels but none really do any better with getting signal out of the noise).

I don't think the 118.8 bird has a Virgin Is mux--think that is on 99 degrees, 118.8 gets Fusion Comm mux w/ indiana CW, wyoming MeTV, vasvision and univision and some odd sports channel, also on bird is Cox louisiana sports channel (sometimes collage games, sometimes ESPN) and JeweryTV in sd and hd

[chifut]

Hi maybe stupid question,but I never playd with C band before.
.What setting have to input in the box?
LNBtype-?
LNB freq-?

Ihave Cband dual LNBF
Input freq 3.4~4.2GHz
Output freq.950~1750MHz
..and 4 foot FortecStar dish
..and viewsat ultra,openbox in Florida

[Costactc]

Lnb type would be as normal- single and your input frequency is 5150. You will pick up the strong tp with a 4' dish, I'm also using a 6' mesh on c band as well as the bud.

[chifut]

Thanks Costa .Ill go to play outside with the dish .lol

[Costactc]

Good Luck bud, try the religious tp on Galaxy 17 at 91w- very strong signal.

[chifut]

Yep .You are right Costa.That was easy On 91W:
..Igot TP 3920H26000 with 65% Q
..TP 4014H6620 -40%Q
TP 3820V30000-70%Q-all chs .scramble..
Idon't wana hijack Xilbus 's thread anymore ,so thanks everybody..

[Costactc]

Yep .You are right Costa.That was easy On 91W:
..Igot TP 3920H26000 with 65% Q
..TP 4014H6620 -40%Q
TP 3820V30000-70%Q-all chs .scramble..
Idon't wana hijack Xilbus 's thread anymore ,so thanks everybody..


I can't see how posting about receiving c band channels on a smaller dish is a hijack. After all, the title of this thread is my mini bud.

[amigo]

Great thread and pictures xilbus, I read this thread with great interest and I must admit it was a pleasure to read all the replies.
I was given a 1.2 meter Channel Master with the 4 ft pole etc last fall from a dear elderly customer of mine and I intend to set it up as soon as the weather gets a little warmer around here, I will need to do a little modification to set up the lnb, but its no big deal for me as I am quite handy.
I have done a great deal of research on this very subject I am getting itchy to get it set up.

I have purchased a DMS BSC621_2 including the conversion bracket and Conical Scalar Ring, the sidecar set up is a great idea for the Ku signal, and I may consider that option if the ku on the 621-2 is not that great.

Again thanks and a great read.

[jetsman2806]

Wow I was just wondering this morning if it were possible to pick up C band signals with my size dish 39", as at my location I am well within range of most c band sats, the ku stuff i need a 6-8 footer for most of them. I am gonna start over reading this thread and take notes now lol

[Solsantenudist]

Hi
I started off with a 1.2 meter dish I which is just a little bigger than your 1 meter
and yes you can pick up some transponders but not that many.
I have a 14' dish and a 10' you can receive lot's with these combinations there is
no substution for square footage of area and a good Lnb Hi gain Low noise and
a receiver with a good front end tuner. If you have space and good line of sight
go for the larger dish this only my point of view.
Enjoy the hobby:okay:

[jetsman2806]

Hi
I started off with a 1.2 meter dish I which is just a little bigger than your 1 meter
and yes you can pick up some transponders but not that many.
I have a 14' dish and a 10' you can receive lot's with these combinations there is
no substution for square footage of area and a good Lnb Hi gain Low noise and
a receiver with a good front end tuner. If you have space and good line of sight
go for the larger dish this only my point of view.
Enjoy the hobby:okay:


cool thanks for the advice. the larger dish may be an issue with me , so i will just test around with the small one for now until i figure out a place that i can fit a large one

[chifut]

This morning I did swapt the 3 foot dish with 4 foot fortec dish with allready sidekar C lnb 7 degree apart the Ku lnb,on the Motec 2100 motor with NO success.
The motor is give -up ..It's moved the dish to 15w and then stuck on that bird /lol/,so I put again the 3 foot ,and start looking for more power motor..
Actualy around my True South /83w/-PLUS/minus 10-15 degree ,the motor is moving East and West,but no way lower and higher .The dish is heavy ..