How to properly Ground your system.

[saajid]

How to properly Ground your system.

I found a picture that may assist in grounding your system.

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8173&stc=1&d=1178732807

[satchick]

I've heard that you shouldn't cut the ground wire when connecting to switches and grounding blocks, but rather to use one continuous length, with the insulation removed from the spot where it gets wrapped around the ground screw/lug on each device.

[Terryl]

Good info Saajid, a picture is worth a thousand words <br />
<br />
And yeah I agree with Satchick, cutting the ground wire adds problems, but if you have to the the best thing to do is bond them at 1(ONE)...

[Terryl]

More on this:

Just wrapping a copper wire around a bolt will work to a point, after it gets wet it will start to corrode, after a bit you will not have a good ground and having to keep cleaning the connections is a pain.

Here is what I do to keep things working nice and the connections clean and tight.

I use crimp on eyelets for wire, after the crimping is done I solder them for maximum electrical contact, then you can then use them to connect to the bolt, also you can use a corrosion inhibitor to keep things from degrading, something like AX7-C works wonders, after all this I use liquid tape to seal it all up.


http://www.powerwerx.com/tools-meters/ax7-c-connector-lubricant-and-corrosion-inhibitor.html

Sounds like a lot of work but it keeps your ground system working to its best.

[satchick]

These should be used, ground block or not.... The coax ground blocks are there to bleed off noise and keep everything at the same potential; not for lightning protection.... <br />
<br />
Don't forget..... If...

[westom]

The coax ground blocks are there to bleed off noise and keep everything at the same potential; not for lightning protection....

Grounding coax is first for human safety, second for protection from surges including lightning (transistor safety), and third for something mostly trivial - static electricity and other noise.

Because it does lightning protection, that ground wire must be as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet'), have no splices, have no sharp bends, and must not be inside metallic conduit. Required only because that ground also provides lightning protection.

Using a GDT can add minor additional protection from lightning. Basically protection if a defect exists in the coax or connected equipment. Earthing only a coax shield (using a ground block) means destructive transients are not on the center conductor (for many reasons electrical). Extremely important for surge protection is to earth that coax wire as short as possible to the same (single point) earthing used by telephone, AC electric, and any other incoming wires.

Grounding to pipes is bad for a long list of reasons. For example, copper pipes have solder joints. That compromises the earthing connection (same reason why splicing wires also compromises a ground). Not to mention it is no longer code legal. Earthing connection must be short to dedicated electrodes also used by all other utilities.

10 or 12 AWG wire colored green is most often used.

[ak.89]

great advices but to be honest i didn't understand at all what to do. iam not as technical all of u guys are good like it maybe sounding harder but if u know what to do then is good . my problem is i can work hard but i have no idea what to do. is it possible some one can post a video of how to do this as like most of the times the problem with people receiver freezing or other problems in connection is related to no grounding our switches. and i am one of them like my one receiver having freezing problem and loss of channels so anyways if some one can make a video or show exactly what to do it will be a lot easier for some noobies here like me :(


thanks

[Terryl]

Here is the closest thing I can find to a video on grounding an antenna system.

Be sure to use good outdoor connectors at the ground block.


http://cnettv.cnet.com/watch-free-hdtv-outdoor-antenna-ground-your-antenna/9742-1_53-19679.html

[Le_Gnome]

Besides doing the above on the outside line, for the SV8000 I use the three prong power cord from my older non working DN receivers. It has the same connector to the power board board, and then I attach the ground wire to the receiver chassis. For extra grounding.

This article is interesting
http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/grounding-2.asp

[ak.89]

Here is the closest thing I can find to a video on grounding an antenna system.

Be sure to use good outdoor connectors at the ground block.


http://cnettv.cnet.com/watch-free-hdtv-outdoor-antenna-ground-your-antenna/9742-1_53-19679.html

great video understood some steps. now first i didn't knew wtf was grounding block so now i know. so my question is i wanna do a 3 receivers setup right. so grounding block i saw coming of maximum 2 connectors , so how to do for 3 receivers setup. secondly in the video when the guy attaches the antenna coax cable and white receiver coax cable he also attaching some wires like the black naked wire and red one . so where do i buy those wires or are they running from my house. thanks

now this is grounding for wires, what about switches? are they safe to leave just like that if we just ground the wireing like the method u show in video or for switches we have to do something else. thanks

[Terryl]

There are 4 coax ground blocks, you just cap off the unused section, if you have a switch and it has a ground lug on it then you wont need the ground block, you just run from the dish to the switches ground lug then to your ground point.

If the system was installed by a pro there should be a ground wire already, you just tap into that with a second copper wire (12 gauge) by using a split bolt*, both can be found at most large hardware stores, get 12 gauge solid green copper wire for the ground to the dish ground, keep it as short as possible.

11125 *This is what a split bolt looks like, if you use this you wont have to cut the ground wire from the dish, you just strip off an inch of insulation and slip this over it, then insert the new ground wire from the switch and tighten it up, stuff called "Liquid Tape" can be used to weather proof the connection.

If you have multiple devices needing a ground you use the split bolt as the main connection from them to the ground wire, everything runs to it, you don't want several different connections to the main ground, that can cause problems.

[westom]

... then I attach the ground wire to the receiver chassis. For extra grounding.
That earthing connection only makes electronics damage easier. Reread your citation. For example, it says "The ground wire shall not be longer than 20 feet." That long for human safety as required by code. Transistors safety demands exceeding code - ie 'less than 10 feet'. Every foot shorter means increased protection.

How far is a connection from the receiever to the only ground point used by all surge protection? Easily more than 10 feet. Probably more than 20 feet.

Do not confuse earth ground with a completely different ground in wall receptacles - safety ground. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either a surge is absorbed 'less than 10 feet' by the one common 'earth' ground. Or that surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. What might be a better path to earth? Destructively through earthed electronics.

Protection is not about grounding any appliance. Protection is always about grounding before energy gets anywhere near to appliances. That earth ground must both meet and exceed post 1990 code requirements. BTW, water pipes are insufficient as the single point earth ground.

Single point earth ground must be connected 'less than 10 feet' from the mains breaker box. Every earth ground must be to that ‘single point’ electrode used by all incoming utilities. Each ground wire routes separate until all meet that that electrode. Earth grounding to a panel, water pipe, etc is insufficient. May meet human safety code. But violates requirements for transistor safety that must exceed code (ie ‘low impedance’ and ‘single point’).

Bottom line. If you thought grounding an appliance increases protection, then you did not grasp the concept that makes protection effective. Earthing an appliance is a safety code violation. And makes that appliance a better (and destructive) path to earth.

[Terryl]

that earthing connection only makes electronics damage easier. Reread your citation. For example, it says "the ground wire shall not be longer than 20 feet." that long for human safety as required by code. Transistors safety demands exceeding code - ie 'less than 10 feet'. Every foot shorter means increased protection.

How far is a connection from the receiever to the only ground point used by all surge protection? Easily more than 10 feet. Probably more than 20 feet.

Do not confuse earth ground with a completely different ground in wall receptacles - safety ground. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either a surge is absorbed 'less than 10 feet' by the one common 'earth' ground. Or that surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. What might be a better path to earth? Destructively through earthed electronics.

Protection is not about grounding any appliance. Protection is always about grounding before energy gets anywhere near to appliances. That earth ground must both meet and exceed post 1990 code requirements. Btw, water pipes are insufficient as the single point earth ground.

Single point earth ground must be connected 'less than 10 feet' from the mains breaker box. Every earth ground must be to that ‘single point’ electrode used by all incoming utilities. Each ground wire routes separate until all meet that that electrode. Earth grounding to a panel, water pipe, etc is insufficient. May meet human safety code. But violates requirements for transistor safety that must exceed code (ie ‘low impedance’ and ‘single point’).

Bottom line. If you thought grounding an appliance increases protection, then you did not grasp the concept that makes protection effective. Earthing an appliance is a safety code violation. And makes that appliance a better (and destructive) path to earth.


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[satchick]

Besides doing the above on the outside line, for the SV8000 I use the three prong power cord from my older non working DN receivers. It has the same connector to the power board board, and then I attach the ground wire to the receiver chassis. For extra grounding.

This article is interesting
http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/grounding-2.asp

I've read that this is a bad idea, unless you have a schematic for the receiver and know exactly what else is connected to the case.

You've also just voided the UL listing for the unit by doing that. Could be a denied insurance claim waiting to happen should that receiver cause a fire/shock someone.

[Terryl]

Could also cause a ground loop problem as the AC ground at the wall runs all the way back to the main panel, so if it's also grounded outside you then have a loop in the ground system and could have problems.

[Le_Gnome]

DN grounds their receivers with the power cord ground to the case. I don't think that any of the million receivers they have out there would be incorrectly wired.

The SV receiver uses a ground coming off the power supply output, which is then grounded to the case. So the grounding of the receiver to any thing external is actually by the coax cable.

My three DPP44's are also grounded at the distribution panel, and there is a third coax groundings outside at the junction box.

Overkill but effective.

[satchick]

DN grounds their receivers with the power cord ground to the case. I don't think that any of the million receivers they have out there would be incorrectly wired.

They're not incorrectly wired because they were designed that way. The Sonicview was not intended to be wired with a 3-wire cord, nor is it listed to be used with one. The power supply ground is just the negative side of the DC supply, and isn't the same thing as the equipment ground, which is a safety feature.

[Terryl]

If it's got a &quot;UL&quot; or &quot;CS&quot; sticker on it then don't mess with the way its connected to ground, it will void the warranty and any chance of getting a payment from your insurance company if it causes a...

[Terryl]

In addition an RF system (satellite dish and receiver, or TV antenna) should have only 1 ground point and that should be as close to the antenna or dish as possible.


With one exception:

And that is AM radio towers.

[ak.89]

terryl my friend i am all confuse up after reading these post lol. so the switches that i should get is 4x4 zinwell switches so do i ground them or do i buy that grounding block.

oh god this is hard. :(

[satchick]

Yes, even with the grounding block you still need to ground the switches.

[ak.89]

so whwat is the process for grounding the switches?

[Pollypurabred]

Out of all the many many threads at many many different sites, GROUNDING seems to draw many many different responses. Some of it is dictated by the electrical code of where you reside however I would...

[ak.89]

Yes, even with the grounding block you still need to ground the switches.

so what is the process of grounding switches can't it be done all in one ..... damn looks like too much work :(

[satchick]

You just wrap the bare ground wire around one of the switch mounting screws.... There's a drawing on page 1 of this thread. You first connect the ground wire to a ground lug on the dish, then run that wire to any switches, then from the switches to the ground block, then from the ground block to a suitable grounding point.

[ak.89]

You just wrap the bare ground wire around one of the switch mounting screws.... There's a drawing on page 1 of this thread. You first connect the ground wire to a ground lug on the dish, then run that wire to any switches, then from the switches to the ground block, then from the ground block to a suitable grounding point.

so what about water and snow? if i ground the switches and wiring water is still going to affect the connection or grounding is best rest is sustinable like water or snow. thanks

[ak.89]

bumpy ride........ bump bump.

[stman]

so what about water and snow? if i ground the switches and wiring water is still going to affect the connection or grounding is best rest is sustinable like water or snow. thanks

If anything, that would make the ground better - if you are referring to the ground itself.

[satchick]

Water will cause all kinds of problems if it gets into your coax connections, you should always use weatherproof connectors, and sealant to keep moisture out. Switch ports should also be horizontal, with a drip loop in the cable before connecting to the switch. This will keep water from running into the ports.

A little dielectric grease on the ground connections will keep them nice and dry...

[ak.89]

Water will cause all kinds of problems if it gets into your coax connections, you should always use weatherproof connectors, and sealant to keep moisture out. Switch ports should also be horizontal, with a drip loop in the cable before connecting to the switch. This will keep water from running into the ports.

A little dielectric grease on the ground connections will keep them nice and dry...

now in this thread i read for grounding the wires i need to connected to cold pipeline where to find that one . also running the copper cable through dish to switches to grounding block and then to cold pipeline.

[ak.89]

Here is the closest thing I can find to a video on grounding an antenna system.

Be sure to use good outdoor connectors at the ground block.


http://cnettv.cnet.com/watch-free-hdtv-outdoor-antenna-ground-your-antenna/9742-1_53-19679.html

by outdoor connector do u mean the connector that is the end part of the coax cable. ? thanks if yes which one .

[Terryl]

I think he might be referring to the wire connecting to the switch by a screw, copper wire connected to a switch or ground block with a standard steel screw will corrode over time if not protected in some way, paint is one quick way, once everything is nice and tight a quick spray with some outdoor paint will keep things from corroding, and it can be removed with a wire brush if needed.

I use crimp on lugs then silver solder to bond them to the wire, and to prevent the screw from rusting I use brass screws, then a dab of liquid tape, I run an 8 gauge copper wire from the top most antenna straight and direct to ground and attach all other grounds to this main ground buss by using split bolts, this keeps the main ground wire intact, the ground point is a 8 foot or 10 foot ground rod, (I will drill through the sidewalk to install this ground, in areas that prevent the use of a ground rod (like rock directly below the top soil) I trench and lay 20 feet of 1/2 inch copper pipe, if that is not possible then I have to fall back on the house main electrical ground.

I don't like using the main house electrical ground as it is a major source of RF interference, and some of the electrical box main grounds are just a 20 foot piece of steel re-bar cemented into the house foundation.

There are many ways to ground a system, most installers from the major company's have to do it the company's way and that is the cheapest way, it takes time to drive in a ground rod, and some newer places don't have metal underground pipes to attach to, so they go for the cheapest way and that is a little clip on the main electrical box, some of the dish installers will mount the dish as close to this box as possible, even if its on the wrong side of the house, this is how they have been taught to do it.

[ak.89]

There are 4 coax ground blocks, you just cap off the unused section, if you have a switch and it has a ground lug on it then you wont need the ground block, you just run from the dish to the switches ground lug then to your ground point.

If the system was installed by a pro there should be a ground wire already, you just tap into that with a second copper wire (12 gauge) by using a split bolt*, both can be found at most large hardware stores, get 12 gauge solid green copper wire for the ground to the dish ground, keep it as short as possible.

11125 *This is what a split bolt looks like, if you use this you wont have to cut the ground wire from the dish, you just strip off an inch of insulation and slip this over it, then insert the new ground wire from the switch and tighten it up, stuff called "Liquid Tape" can be used to weather proof the connection.

If you have multiple devices needing a ground you use the split bolt as the main connection from them to the ground wire, everything runs to it, you don't want several different connections to the main ground, that can cause problems.

u also mention that i don't need a grounding block if my switches have a option to run the ground wire? so i am not sure my setup is like 2 zinwell switches and 3 sw21 switches for 3 receivers. so do i need a ground block? thanks

[ak.89]

I think he might be referring to the wire connecting to the switch by a screw, copper wire connected to a switch or ground block with a standard steel screw will corrode over time if not protected in some way, paint is one quick way, once everything is nice and tight a quick spray with some outdoor paint will keep things from corroding, and it can be removed with a wire brush if needed.

I use crimp on lugs then silver solder to bond them to the wire, and to prevent the screw from rusting I use brass screws, then a dab of liquid tape, I run an 8 gauge copper wire from the top most antenna straight and direct to ground and attach all other grounds to this main ground buss by using split bolts, this keeps the main ground wire intact, the ground point is a 8 foot or 10 foot ground rod, (I will drill through the sidewalk to install this ground, in areas that prevent the use of a ground rod (like rock directly below the top soil) I trench and lay 20 feet of 1/2 inch copper pipe, if that is not possible then I have to fall back on the house main electrical ground.

I don't like using the main house electrical ground as it is a major source of RF interference, and some of the electrical box main grounds are just a 20 foot piece of steel re-bar cemented into the house foundation.

There are many ways to ground a system, most installers from the major company's have to do it the company's way and that is the cheapest way, it takes time to drive in a ground rod, and some newer places don't have metal underground pipes to attach to, so they go for the cheapest way and that is a little clip on the main electrical box, some of the dish installers will mount the dish as close to this box as possible, even if its on the wrong side of the house, this is how they have been taught to do it.

thanks for ur answer terryl i really appreciate you helping out but this is getting more confusing after i read more and more. my problem is that currently i have some channels missing and i do get some freezing also so people told me here is that my switches are not right and it has problem , i also need to add a 3rd receiver in other room so i thought why not just do all this in a proper way. ok?

so i bought already 2 zinwell switches and 3 sw21 switches i don't wanna get freezing and problem . but i want to do it right way , i am not very technical but i try best. so what is the simpliest way to do this. the installer that installed my dish didn't do things right i belive. there is not grounding wire or stuff like that my current switches are just laying down on the roof. God i am gonna pass out , Sorry.

Please like i don't have the coax cable cutter or that compressor kit to put seal the connecter on the end . i also have to buy those stuff. its just adding up the bill :( but i do wanna do my self as installer is asking to much money to do this.

thanks again your help.

[Terryl]

I can see where your coming from with the cost of the installer to do this, and some will try to do it them selves to save money.

But if you don't have the proper tools to make up your own coax cables then you will have to custom order them, or find someone that has the tools and will help you out in making them up.

You can order the coax cables cut to length with connectors attached, but that would cost more then getting the tools to do it your self.

Some places like radio shack sell short coax cables but they may not be the right length you need, the cables from the LNB(s) to the switch should be as short as possible, however you can run them 10 to 20 feet with out problems, this gives you the option to mount the switches up under the roof eaves out of the weather.

If you do this be sure to get the best coax you can, it solves a lot of problems when the coax is rated for the job.

[ak.89]

I can see where your coming from with the cost of the installer to do this, and some will try to do it them selves to save money.

But if you don't have the proper tools to make up your own coax cables then you will have to custom order them, or find someone that has the tools and will help you out in making them up.

You can order the coax cables cut to length with connectors attached, but that would cost more then getting the tools to do it your self.

Some places like radio shack sell short coax cables but they may not be the right length you need, the cables from the LNB(s) to the switch should be as short as possible, however you can run them 10 to 20 feet with out problems, this gives you the option to mount the switches up under the roof eaves out of the weather.

If you do this be sure to get the best coax you can, it solves a lot of problems when the coax is rated for the job.


thanks again terryl for ur reply. so u saying coax from lnb to switches should be short as possible. so lets say if i do decide to install the switches on the roof how will i do the grounding? because the grounding is on the ground. so whats the solution for that. and also u said earlier that i don't need grounding block if i have switches that can do that function so does the zinwell 4x4 switches and sw21 have that option because i am using 2 zinwell and 3 sw21 switches. thanks

[Terryl]

The switches have mounting holes (dont they?) use these holes for the ground, just get a brass bolt and nut to fit the holes, run a 12 gauge wire to your ground from the dish.

You can tie all grounds together at the switches with a split bolt, then run 1 wire to the main ground, you can use what is called a split bolt to connect the wire to the main ground.

Split bolt looks like this.11219

[satchick]

and also u said earlier that i don't need grounding block if i have switches that can do that function so does the zinwell 4x4 switches and sw21 have that option because i am using 2 zinwell and 3 sw21 switches. thanks

All switches with a metal case will ground the coax, so with the switches you have you will not need to install a ground block.


if i do decide to install the switches on the roof how will i do the grounding?
Run a copper wire from the switches to a ground point.

[ak.89]

The switches have mounting holes (dont they?) use these holes for the ground, just get a brass bolt and nut to fit the holes, run a 12 gauge wire to your ground from the dish.

You can tie all grounds together at the switches with a split bolt, then run 1 wire to the main ground, you can use what is called a split bolt to connect the wire to the main ground.

Split bolt looks like this.11219

ok so thats good i don't need to buy the grounding block , so where to get this grounding wire for the running from dish to the switches and then individual ground wire from switches to ground. is there a picture so i can check for this kind of setup. i know on first page there is a picture but i am confuse when i bring the ground wire from dish to switches how to run through and then how to go in ground (like cold line water pipe). also is it ok to leave the switches on the roof? or should i bring the coax down from the lnb to ground and then attach all switches on the wall of my house at the bottom. but snow still gets there what is the way like people do .

[ak.89]

bump it up

[satchick]

so where to get this grounding wire for the running from dish to the switches and then individual ground wire from switches to ground.
Pretty much any home improvement store, or an electrical supply house. You just need #12 copper wire, preferably with green insulation.


also is it ok to leave the switches on the roof?

No, and whoever did that install is an idiot for leaving the switches laying down on the roof like that, surprising they even lasted this long. Mount the switches under the eaves, preferably in a plastic box for protection from the weather, and it also looks nicer.