channel master antenna

[secheltpaul]

I am thinking of getting the channel master CM 4228 HD 8 bay UHF antenna to get the very few locals I can get here. Was wondering what the maximum cable run could be?
And is this a good antenna go get?
Thanks

[jvvh5897]

Lots of folks use bowtie type antennas and they do work OK. For really fringe area and in one direction only, something like a yagi antenna should be used--you might want to look around at what other folks around you are using.

How long a cable run you can use depends on the cable being used and the channel you want to get--hard to answer in general. I see that the antenna you are looking at is usually sold with an antenna mounted amplifier and that would largely support any cable length you might use.

Oh, and that antenna is only for UHF channels--ie above ch 13, so if any of the channels you want are in the ch7-13 range it will not be very good. And UHF losses in cable are higher than VHF so antenna amplifier is likely what you will wnat to use.

[secheltpaul]

thanks jvvh5897
ever one here is on cable or dish . have not seen one in the area. it dose say it will cover 7to 13 with this setup. not in a rush and will take you advice and check out other two antennas you take about.
thanks again

[satchick]

Was wondering what the maximum cable run could be?

Maybe 50 feet without a preamp.... If you're in a low signal area you'll want to get a preamp anyways though.

[secheltpaul]

o k thanks Satchick will look in to pr amp. in i bad spot here for
OTA, but what the heck i will give it a try.

[WillDekkard]

Looks like you need an antenna that will pick up to 70 miles and a rotor would be recommended as you have stations in multiple directions. You have only channel 6 which is below channel 14. 6(CHEK) is analog right now and may or may not switch to digital, if it does it would be sloted to UHF 49. Also, it looks like the rest of the channels are above 14 so a UHF antenna may be OK, but a Yagi may be better with the rotor, especially if you are close to minimize bounce.

[secheltpaul]

Thanks Will
This is all new to me. Yes I see that yega type antenna seams to be the better choice. This was member jvvh5897’s choice for antenna also. I was reading were a new type of yega antenna is coming out and they suggest waiting before buying.

I have moved from Sechelt to Gibsons about 40 miles south. Made an antenna and can get 3 no problem. Two crystal clear.

P.S. sent away for a conical scalar ring kit to try a mini bud with LNB I got from Costa.
Thanks for the input Will

[WillDekkard]

Thanks Will
This is all new to me. Yes I see that yega type antenna seams to be the better choice. This was member jvvh5897’s choice for antenna also. I was reading were a new type of yega antenna is coming out and they suggest waiting before buying.

I have moved from Sechelt to Gibsons about 40 miles south. Made an antenna and can get 3 no problem. Two crystal clear.

P.S. sent away for a conical scalar ring kit to try a mini bud with LNB I got from Costa.
Thanks for the input Will

40 miles south, even better ! Go to http://www.tvfool.com/ and you can see what channels you can get with directions and coverage of the channel's towers. Plug in your new location after you click "start maps".

[Terryl]

Using a good deep fringe antenna/pre-amp and a rotor you should be able to get a ton of channels, and if you use good high quality RG-6 quad coax rated to 3 GHz (like we use for satellite work) with this setup you could go 200 feet.

If all your channels in your area are on the UHF band then an Antennas Direct 91Xg will do a great job on those weak stations, useing a good pre-amp is a must if you have a long run of coax.

[secheltpaul]

thanks Will, i am using TV FOOL very cool web site.......................................
thanks Terryl , not a lot to get here. there is a 4-5000ft mountain range between me and Vancouver that blocks most channels.

[jvvh5897]

Another handy tool to use IMO is a path profiler. I help out with a translator system and have found good info about the path that gets to the receivers by looking at the digital elevation data with PathProf program. There is something called knife edge diffusion that fills in behind hills and mountains in path--if you are not too close to the obstruction you only lose 6dB or so of the signal--that might mean you are getting more than you think.

[D Cup]

This is going to sound really whacky especially since I grew up in the electronics business. My dad built and designed TV stations in the 40s and to the mid 50s. The day WDSU in New Orleans came on the air (150 miles away) in 1947 we had our TV on. 100 foot tower with a rotor and the picture was snowy but it came in. By the time I was 5 I could adjust a rotor antenna and booster (prior to AGC) as well as most TV techs. My brother and I have bought those funny looking antennas on flea bay. They look like toys and when you get them - they still look like toys. I think I caught mine on sale for like $30 including shipping. The have a booster (crap but it does a little) and a remote control that will rotate your antenna although unless you can see it - adjusting it is a PIA. However, the thing works pretty good. I have several towers near 60 miles or more and it gets those just fine. My 9000 scans 32 channels and I get them all. Just a thought - yes I know blondes at work again

[secheltpaul]

Hi D-cup
First off, No not blondes at work again. Not at all. Sounds like an interesting childhood you had.
This is an interesting post. Just not sure of the antennas you’re talking about but yes I have seen some cheep looking yega style antennas with router to move it around $50 bucks Canadian new. Probably something similar. Thanks for the input. We all appreciate it.
I love your LNB cover in that picture.
Thanks

[Terryl]

thanks Will, i am using TV FOOL very cool web site.......................................
thanks Terryl , not a lot to get here. there is a 4-5000ft mountain range between me and Vancouver that blocks most channels.

If you have a clear shot at the top of that mountain you could use (with the landowners permission) what is called a passive repeater, you get two of the biggest highest gain antennas you can find and point one at the TV stations, the other is connected to this antenna but pointing at you, use the shortest possible coax connection you can.

A small solar powered signal booster can also be used.

[secheltpaul]

i am the landowner . thanks for all these great ideas Terryl and ever one.kep them coming like i said this is all new to me, learning lots.

[WillDekkard]

If you have a clear shot at the top of that mountain you could use (with the landowners permission) what is called a passive repeater, you get two of the biggest highest gain antennas you can find and point one at the TV stations, the other is connected to this antenna but pointing at you, use the shortest possible coax connection you can.

A small solar powered signal booster can also be used.

OK - Time to start erecting "two-way" "passive repeaters" across the 49th parallel ! LOL ! I knew there was a way to get long range stations, and I knew Terryl would be the one who would know how !

[Terryl]

Let me tell you about "bill board" antennas, we used them to get microwave signals down into areas that where shadowed by mountain peaks and ridges, these were not real antennas but very large reflectors,they could be used for TV signal. but you have to do your trigonometry right or you tearing things down and rebuilding them.

Then we have ganged antennas, we would take up to 20 antennas in a linear staggered array and sum them together in a summing amp (solar powered) then run that signal into a very high gain wide band transmit yagi and point it in what ever direction we wanted, this can be done for one TV channel, all the RX antennas are cut to that frequency, the same for the TX antenna.

Then we have translators, they RX on one band and TX on another, you could receive TV channel 7 that was blocked by a mountain and re-broadcast it on UHF channel 30, mount this where you get a good signal on Ch. 7 and can be seen from your location and your set.

More later.

[secheltpaul]

I have been talking to the station engineer for CHEK 6 from Victoria BC after talking to him I can pick them up on one of those coat hanger antennas. He gave me the new station numbers and the TV found it. . I could get them on rabbit ears as they are still sending analog signal. Turning it off next Tuesday.
But I found this next e-mail he sent me interesting. Not every one has to send an HD signal here in Canada according to this guy. TV fool dose show a lot of analogue signals for me. Anyways this has been an interesting thread for me.have learned a lot. Thanks for all the info.

I like the repeater tower idea!

“Good to hear you can pick us up now Paul. In Canada all broadcaster were to
shut down the analog on Aug 31st in any city with a population over 300,000.
Smaller rebroad transmitters in smaller communities are allowed to stay
analog. We had some technical issues with our main digital so we were allow
to keep the analog running for awhile longer. As far as I know all
broadcaster in the US are now digital exclusively.”

[WillDekkard]

I have been talking to the station engineer for CHEK 6 from Victoria BC after talking to him I can pick them up on one of those coat hanger antennas. He gave me the new station numbers and the TV found it. . I could get them on rabbit ears as they are still sending analog signal. Turning it off next Tuesday.
But I found this next e-mail he sent me interesting. Not every one has to send an HD signal here in Canada according to this guy. TV fool dose show a lot of analogue signals for me. Anyways this has been an interesting thread for me.have learned a lot. Thanks for all the info.

I like the repeater tower idea!

“Good to hear you can pick us up now Paul. In Canada all broadcaster were to
shut down the analog on Aug 31st in any city with a population over 300,000.
Smaller rebroad transmitters in smaller communities are allowed to stay
analog. We had some technical issues with our main digital so we were allow
to keep the analog running for awhile longer. As far as I know all
broadcaster in the US are now digital exclusively.”

Many ppl get DTV and HD confused. The stations that are required to convert to Digital (for Canada, there are 31 cities) are not required to convert to High Def. High Definition is optional and repeater towers usually cover areas outside those 31 cities, so they can remain analog.

As far as the US goes, most stations are required to convert to digital, however there are many exceptions, most if not all low powered stations can remain analog.

31 Cities required to convert to Digital:
http://www.otatalk.com/showthread.php?p=5021#post5021
Link to list of Canadian TV Station status:
http://www.otatalk.com/showthread.php?p=5038#post5038

[secheltpaul]

thanks Will
so then i will need a very high gain VHF/UHF antenna not just a UHF antenna

[jvvh5897]

They tried to remove channels from the low VHF band so almost all channels are from about 180MHz and up now. There seems to be a pretty good movement to remove all channels from ch50 up and give that space to broadband, so looks like antennas will only need to be high VHF to low UHF.

[secheltpaul]

thanks jvvh5897
read this on an antenna site.
xxx.hdtvprimer.com

Late news: Note that now is not a good time to buy a Yagi antenna. Present Yagi antennas are optimized for channel 69. But in the U.S. 51 is now the highest channel, and a new generation of Yagi antennas cut for channel 51 will be the most desirable. For the next few years Yagi buyers must pay close attention to the frequency specs.

[spotbeams]

Look at the post above by WillDekkard . Go to
www.tvfool.com Search around the site and try some tools listed. Very good site .Thanks Will

[rockisdead]

2-1 (got in the daytime,not night time)
2-2 (got in the daytime,not night time)
4-1
5-1
7-1
9-1
11-1 (sometime can get it)
17-1
17-2
17-3
19-1
21-1 (sometime can get it)
21-2 (sometime can get it)
21-3 (sometime can get it)
23-1
25-1
26-1 (sometime can get it)
26-2 (sometime can get it)
26-3 (sometime can get it)
26-4 (sometime can get it)
27-1 (snow flake)
29-1
29-2
41-1
41-2
43-8 (mode not support) not sure what the heck is this
43-9 (mode not support) not sure what the heck is this
57-1
69-1
Here is what I got with HD4221 in GTA.

[dakota9393]

i ave made this antenna a work very well here 45 mile north montreal i can get all the 22 chanel available from mtl and burlington i made the antenna with wood for the stucture and coppertube 9/16 dia.i ave put a reflector behind the relector i made the reflector with a old birdcage.cost me around 5$ 13288

[Terryl]

Nice antenna design, but it's a 300 ohm balanced antenna, (both sides active)

You need to use a 300 ohm to 75 ohm bauln transformer connected to where you have the current 75 ohm coax attached, it may even work better if one side is not grounded by the coax shield of the 75 ohm unbalanced coax.

[rockisdead]

Terryl,any idea of this Channel Master CM-2016 antenna VS CM4221HD?thanks.

[Terryl]

The CM-2016 has a tighter beamwidth then the CM-4221, but is smaller and is rated to 35 miles, the CM-4221 will work to 45 miles and has a wider beamwidth.

What this means is the CM-4221 will receive stations that are further to the left and right of center then the CM-2016, it all depends on what the channel lay out is in your area.

Iif your TV stations your trying to receive all lie in one direction and your within 30 miles from them, then the CM-2016 will work fine.

If the TV stations are in an arc of about 100 degrees (50 degrees on ether side of you) then the CM-4221 is the best choice.

[Pollypurabred]

Realize that the part of the thread is a little old but my neighbor came over last week and had a letter from Comcast (USA) they they will be phasing out all analog channels "within the near future", whatever that means. They are still pushing two free D to A stb converters that can be had for free if you have an older TV. According to Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_television
The switchover was originally scheduled for February 17, 2009, until the U.S. Congress passed the DTV Delay Act.[9] By special dispensation, some analog TV signals ceased on the original date.[10] While the majority of the viewers of over-the-air broadcast television in the U.S. watch full-power stations (which number about 1800), there are three other categories of TV stations in the U.S.: low-power broadcasting stations, Class A stations, and TV translator stations. There is presently no deadline for these stations, about 7100 in number, to convert to digital broadcasting.


. As far as I know all
broadcaster in the US are now digital exclusively.”

[swamp]

Aerial time ..cable is pinchin me balls

[hezy]

HD stacker is the best one on the market.

[Terryl]

Well IF you have any VHF HD channels in your area it might. (I haven't seen any published specifications on that one, if you have some, please post them)

But if they are all in the UHF band (like in my area) then the Antennas Direct 91XG will out perform 95% of the deep fringe UHF antennas on the market today.

We have installed hundreds of different brands of antennas over the past few years, the majority work good to great, but when it comes to deep fringe UHF antennas the 91XG draws in the channels like a magnet.

I have one on a 50 foot tower, with a rotor, I get UHF channels from over 175 miles away, I tried many other types, (till I got tired of dropping the tower to do the work) but always went back to the one that worked the best for me.