DN $3500 demand

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Originally Posted by Anubis

I understand your point sod but as you know taking stuff out in public using foul language does contravene site rules. At least take it to pm before the latter.;)

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Originally Posted by Just_angel

play nice in the sandbox....please tone it down alittle

Thanks :liang:

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I would gladly do that but in turn I will expect that these types of posts:

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Originally Posted by Grave Digger

sod, i am saying this with all due respect, but quit your damn speculating and assumptions,

you have no idea if he used encryption or not, so stop assuming he did not,

they could break any encryption he was using, however chances are he gave up all this info willingly, so an encryption wouldn't matter a damn anyway

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Originally Posted by Grave Digger

sod, quit giving people poor advice, nobody is going to walk into a court room and beat DN lawyers on their own, that is just not going to happen, no way no how,

i would just love to see you walk into a court room against DN high payed lawyers and say "im sorry your honor, but i dont even own an fta receiver, and have never used one",

are you kidding? the judge would laugh at you, and be little you, in front of everybody,

the only good advice is to seek professional legal advice, which is not offered on this forum,

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will cease and desist.

GS2 and myself disagree on this topic and have had many, many pages of back and forth. But it was just that back and forth and hasn't and I'm sure will not regress to GS2 talking down to me nor me talking down to him.

So I have to ask why does this guy keep getting obvious special treatment to talk as he likes in this thread? He is disrespectful, arrogant, and has a condescending tone when referring to me on this board. I am a very nice guy (usually) but don't p*ss me off and this guy has went waaaaaaay beyond that. That is why I'm asking that the site deal with it and demand that he tone it down or I will deal with it.

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Originally Posted by sodusme

I would gladly do that but in turn I will expect that these types of posts:





will cease and desist.

GS2 and myself disagree on this topic and have had many, many pages of back and forth. But it was just that back and forth and hasn't and I'm sure will not regress to GS2 talking down to me nor me talking down to him.

So I have to ask why does this guy keep getting obvious special treatment to talk as he likes in this thread? He is disrespectful, arrogant, and has a condescending tone when referring to me on this board. I am a very nice guy (usually) but don't p*ss me off and this guy has went waaaaaaay beyond that. That is why I'm asking that the site deal with it and demand that he tone it down or I will deal with it.

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ok i'll deal with him , just be patient with me :)

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Originally Posted by Just_angel

ok i'll deal with him , just be patient with me :)

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Thank you that is all I ask. :)

Grave Digger

last and only warning ...knock it off when posting here learn to be respectful to all

or you'll find me showing you the door no questions asked

thanks ...now back to relaxing :)

letters are going out the how and where they gather there info is irrellevent...and it is possible to show thru various means that an IP Addy {enduser} has connected to another IP Addy [server] NFPS or otherwise.even thru a proxy as Sod as a specialist in pc secuity can tell you..

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Originally Posted by Just_angel

Grave Digger

last and only warning ...knock it off when posting here learn to be respectful to all

or you'll find me showing you the door no questions asked

thanks ...now back to relaxing :)

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I just love your "commercial breaks". :tehe:

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Originally Posted by sodusme

don't p*ss me off and this guy has went waaaaaaay beyond that. That is why I'm asking that the site deal with it and demand that he tone it down or I will deal with it.

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you know that I have Mad respect for you bud, but some times we need to step back and hit the "report" button and let the staff handle things....and yeah, sometimes you have to speak your mind, but when you see it going from bad to worse, let staff handle it man....

that's why Just_Angel gets the private shower in the Green room..... I miss that 2 way mirror, Umm... I mean room....lol ;)

BPG~

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Originally Posted by BPG

you know that I have Mad respect for you bud, but some times we need to step back and hit the "report" button and let the staff handle things....and yeah, sometimes you have to speak your mind, but when you see it going from bad to worse, let staff handle it man....

that's why Just_Angel gets the private shower in the Green room..... I miss that 2 way mirror, Umm... I mean room....lol ;)

BPG~

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It's ok, it still gets use! ;)

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Originally Posted by BPG

that's why Just_Angel gets the private shower in the Green room..... I miss that 2 way mirror, Umm... I mean room....lol ;)

BPG~

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Private showers, dang we are lucky if the shower faucet even works (them darn wannabe plumbers)...and 2 way mirror, was supposed to be in ladies lounge:innocent:

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Originally Posted by BPG

you know that I have Mad respect for you bud, but some times we need to step back and hit the "report" button and let the staff handle things....and yeah, sometimes you have to speak your mind, but when you see it going from bad to worse, let staff handle it man....

that's why Just_Angel gets the private shower in the Green room..... I miss that 2 way mirror, Umm... I mean room....lol ;)

BPG~

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Thanks Bob and its kind of hard since I'm on staff (FTA and other boards) myself. I sometimes forget the "report" button and simply shoot off the cuff as if I'm running the show and that is not the case. I'm getting better, but still slip up from time to time. I guess I just kind of wondered why nobody saw it before I did?

But its been handled and all is good now. ;)

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Originally Posted by sodusme

OK but here is my take on it and why its such a stretch: They send out a demand letter demanding payment for wrongdoing from purchasing these codes. Now if you read that demand letter (and we all have) point out to me where in the demand letter they state anything about using a receiver?

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They don't have to its just a demand letter. You can choose to ignore it.

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Now I've already taken the liberty of reviewing it for the 100th time and I can save you the trouble. There is absolutely NO mention of using a receiver in that demand letter or a dongle. Now I know you will say its merely a "peace offering" and they don't have to mention it in the letter, but here's the deal they are demanding payment under the alleged use of a "code" and "for your reference" as they say in the letter the only information they list is the NFPS passcode, DES key, email, and ID. Now then when they file the lawsuit they write up this big thing about how you used a receiver and how the receiver works and how you used a dongle and how the dongle works and all this other, for lack of a better word, b.s. Now my problem with this whole situation is where is the investigatory work pointing to the use of a receiver? Where is the evidence of use of a dongle?

This whole situation is like the cops busting someone for buying some pot (yes I realize this scenario is criminal and the codes are civil its merely an example). Then they bring charges against the individual for possession of drug paraphernalia also. When there is no way possible way to tell if you bought that pot for your own personal use or someone else or whatever other excuse you could come up with. It would be like the cops writing up charges stating "....purchased pot which allowed the individual to smoke it in a bong". "A bong consists of a cylindrical tube made of....". You get my point here I'm sure? Just as there would be no way to "prove" other then just guessing or hypothesising that a person who purchased pot smoked it in a bong, there would be no way of "proving" that an individual who purchased a NFPS code actually used that code. The courts can call it a preponderance of the evidence all they want but its really a crock of sh*t IMO.

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They stated what they had to in the demand letter. Best demand letters are short to the point. A demand letter does not include the complaint, evidence, exhibits Etc.


If you become a Plaintiff in a lawsuit you'll come to appreciate preponderance of the evidence and it won't seem like a crock to you than. It will seem like a crock if you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I am currently a plaintiff in three cases, two small claims and one that is at the demand letter stage that will not be small claims. If I had to prove what your suggesting might as well fold up along with thousands or millions of others. One of my complaints alleges fraud but it would probably not amount to criminal fraud because of needing to prove it was intentional fraud and planned from the get go. They didn't prove OJ was guilty but luckily in Civil they were able to prove he was responsible and liable for wrongful death. Zimmerman could still be held responsible for wrongful death in a Civil court. I believe the court system has it right.

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GS2 and myself disagree on this topic and have had many, many pages of back and forth. But it was just that back and forth and hasn't and I'm sure will not regress to GS2 talking down to me nor me talking down to him.

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You have been very civil with no talking down and it would not happen coming from me to you unless I was responding in kind. You have brought up some good points. I am not trying to be negative but I know a court will look at both sides and while we don't want to think their side could be right but its want a court will think and do. I learned that the hard way years ago because I just did not see the court looking at any other way than I thought it should. I had to be right and the other side was full of crap but I realized after I was not neutral and never considered the other side's point while the court did.




GS2

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Originally Posted by Gunsmoke2 - GS2

They don't have to its just a demand letter. You can choose to ignore it.






They stated what they had to in the demand letter. Best demand letters are short to the point. A demand letter does not include the complaint, evidence, exhibits Etc.


If you become a Plaintiff in a lawsuit you'll come to appreciate preponderance of the evidence and it won't seem like a crock to you than. It will seem like a crock if you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I am currently a plaintiff in three cases, two small claims and one that is at the demand letter stage that will not be small claims. If I had to prove what your suggesting might as well fold up along with thousands or millions of others. One of my complaints alleges fraud but it would probably not amount to criminal fraud because of needing to prove it was intentional fraud and planned from the get go. They didn't prove OJ was guilty but luckily in Civil they were able to prove he was responsible and liable for wrongful death. Zimmerman could still be held responsible for wrongful death in a Civil court. I believe the court system has it right.






You have been very civil with no talking down and it would not happen coming from me to you unless I was responding in kind. You have brought up some good points. I am not trying to be negative but I know a court will look at both sides and while we don't want to think their side could be right but its want a court will think and do. I learned that the hard way years ago because I just did not see the court looking at any other way than I thought it should. I had to be right and the other side was full of crap but I realized after I was not neutral and never considered the other side's point while the court did.




GS2

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Yes I have been involved in only one criminal proceeding and several "traffic" cases and to be honest the way those turned out soured me on the whole judicial system. I'll tell a quick story about one of the traffic cases and you will come to realize why I'm so sour on the entire system and why I think its fraught with corruption: I had gotten a speeding ticket in my early 20's and had 10 points out of 12 allowed and would lose my license. I hired an attorney who picked up the case for a few hundred dollars to save my license. Fresh out of the magistrates chambers the attorney tells me that the cop asked him "Are you and the defendant related"? The attorney replied "No I'm on retainer why"? The cop then replied "OH OK I don't feel so bad accepting a plea deal then knowing that he had to pay for you too". So in retrospect this cop is saying "I don't care who you are spending your money to as long as its going into the system".

This is why I have no use for the judicial system in the U.S. and realize that it is rife with corruption, bias, and outright thievery.

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Originally Posted by sodusme

Yes I have been involved in only one criminal proceeding and several "traffic" cases and to be honest the way those turned out soured me on the whole judicial system. I'll tell a quick story about one of the traffic cases and you will come to realize why I'm so sour on the entire system and why I think its fraught with corruption: I had gotten a speeding ticket in my early 20's and had 10 points out of 12 allowed and would lose my license. I hired an attorney who picked up the case for a few hundred dollars to save my license. Fresh out of the magistrates chambers the attorney tells me that the cop asked him "Are you and the defendant related"? The attorney replied "No I'm on retainer why"? The cop then replied "OH OK I don't feel so bad accepting a plea deal then knowing that he had to pay for you too". So in retrospect this cop is saying "I don't care who you are spending your money to as long as its going into the system".

This is why I have no use for the judicial system in the U.S. and realize that it is rife with corruption, bias, and outright thievery.

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Ahh speeding tickets ..... something that should probably have its own thread and how to properly & effectively deal without having to resort to hiring an attorney to do so. Over the years I myself have been able to dispose of 5 speeding tickets of 10 mph or more over the limit , accruing no points, minimal fine, court fee for defective equipment. All that was required was a notarized speedometer calibration (usually just disconnected speedometer cable on older vehicles, now even easier disconnecting speedo sensor) then a made up receipt for repair. Have done this for 3 friends also, All were successful. Most notable was one issued by a state trooper many, many yrs ago for 90mph in 65mph. I really was nervous until the judge dismissed the guy's ticket right before me by the same trooper. When the judge asked if he was guilty of the offence (speeding). In halting english he replied "yes, BUT I want to know why the trooper say I should go back to my own country". The judge lookjng at the trooper incredously, half smiling asked "did you say that". As the trooper replied "I might of said words of similar effect". The judge hardly waited for him to finish, apologising to defendant, dismissed ticket, no
fine, no court fee. Mine was processed almost as fast. I'll never forget turning, walking out of courtroom virtually every eye in court was focused on me like a laserbeam. With age comes wisdom usually lol or at least a slowing of the testosterone & need for speed. A lot less cops on the roads these days too.

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Originally Posted by sodusme

OK but here is my take on it and why its such a stretch: They send out a demand letter demanding payment for wrongdoing from purchasing these codes. Now if you read that demand letter (and we all have) point out to me where in the demand letter they state anything about using a receiver? Now I've already taken the liberty of reviewing it for the 100th time and I can save you the trouble. There is absolutely NO mention of using a receiver in that demand letter or a dongle. Now I know you will say its merely a "peace offering" and they don't have to mention it in the letter, but here's the deal they are demanding payment under the alleged use of a "code" and "for your reference" as they say in the letter the only information they list is the NFPS passcode, DES key, email, and ID. Now then when they file the lawsuit they write up this big thing about how you used a receiver and how the receiver works and how you used a dongle and how the dongle works and all this other, for lack of a better word, b.s. Now my problem with this whole situation is where is the investigatory work pointing to the use of a receiver? Where is the evidence of use of a dongle?

This whole situation is like the cops busting someone for buying some pot (yes I realize this scenario is criminal and the codes are civil its merely an example). Then they bring charges against the individual for possession of drug paraphernalia also. When there is no way possible way to tell if you bought that pot for your own personal use or someone else or whatever other excuse you could come up with. It would be like the cops writing up charges stating "....purchased pot which allowed the individual to smoke it in a bong". "A bong consists of a cylindrical tube made of....". You get my point here I'm sure? Just as there would be no way to "prove" other then just guessing or hypothesising that a person who purchased pot smoked it in a bong, there would be no way of "proving" that an individual who purchased a NFPS code actually used that code. The courts can call it a preponderance of the evidence all they want but its really a crock of sh*t IMO.

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not the best example but i do agree with the point youre trying to make...the whole point of this scheme (extortion letters) is that dn/nag is able to enforce this complaint in CIVIL court b/c of the slim chances they would have in CRIMINAL courts, period

there are a lot of holes with these letters BUT not one peep who got one of these has paid for a PROFESSIONAL lawyer to take this crap on and i mean HEAD ON and make a mockery of what this whole shiate (letters) is...until THAT happens? dn will continue to force this donation/code issue down the enduser's throat via the corrupt (civil) court system...this is true in both sides of the border, HOWEVER, i know for a fact if anyone went in there and screamed "CHERRY PICKING" and forced DN/NAG to PROVE what they are CLAIMING? they would be done like a splattered snake on Arizona back roads...man i wish i was a lawyer cuz THAT would be my NEW mission...yeah i would prob lose a few before i hit it big, but i would HIT IT HUGE once i got the legal wrangling down ;)

Really agree with a lot that has been said regarding this letter. However people being people I would bet that 99% percent of the folks that have gotten this letter have compromised themselves by posting on the boards. It would be nice for a 1 per center that had the bucks and actually went to court and win. But that too I don't see happening.