2stroke and lawnmowers

Hello guys, I was thinking the other day that I report the test I do with the FTA world, and thought of another thing I test in daily basis, I cut lawn and always find others that do this for living and have share and ask questions about how an equipment delivers the job and wish doesn't, or simply brands that wont handle the punishment of almost every day cutting a lawn, so I am going to start reporting my personal experience and opinions of this equipments, also will ask questions I don't have the answers, for example, Yesterday I was cutting this lawn and a person ask me what gas to oil ratio I use for my equipment and what type of 2 stroke oil I use, synthetic or conventional?
This is what I answered, I use 18:1= 8oz of oil to 1 gallon of gas, why? because I can get more hours of service from this engines then the 50hours the specs says it was made for. Don't use synthetic because on 2 stroke I don't trust this type of OIL, Why I don't trust the synthetic 2 stroke OIL? I don't have an answer to that but maybe some of you can add your opinion on this, positive or negative about 2 stroke synthetic oil.
Thanks in advance TURBO.

Do you chase mosquitoes away also with that blend.....:tehe:

Synthetic will help keep the carbon build up to a minimum.....a cleaner engine will help keep it cooler.....JMO......:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Night Prowler

Do you chase mosquitoes away also with that blend.....:tehe:

Synthetic will help keep the carbon build up to a minimum.....a cleaner engine will help keep it cooler.....JMO......:thumbsup:

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LOL, yes no mosquitoes after nor during the trimmer is ON.

I put synthetic oil in my lawn tractor, (4 stroke, 25 HP) plus I add some stuff called "Prolong" oil additive, I get 3 more acres per tank full then regular oil with nothing added.

You have got to be kidding Terry !!! - did you actually test this with different oils ?

All the guys that I see mowing grass for a living see to prefer 2 strokes - mainly lawn boy . Something about not damaging the engine ( amongst other things) when mowing steep grades.

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Originally Posted by StanW

You have got to be kidding Terry !!! - did you actually test this with different oils ?

All the guys that I see mowing grass for a living see to prefer 2 strokes - mainly lawn boy . Something about not damaging the engine ( amongst other things) when mowing steep grades.

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if you're on a lawn tractor why would you be on a steep grade?:tehe:

What tractor ? - Terry hijacked the thread - again . We're discussing lawn mowers .lol

Sorry..........................................My fault.............................:yeaah:

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Originally Posted by StanW

You have got to be kidding Terry !!! - did you actually test this with different oils ?

All the guys that I see mowing grass for a living see to prefer 2 strokes - mainly lawn boy . Something about not damaging the engine ( amongst other things) when mowing steep grades.

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Yup, gas acreage goes down when I use standard oil.

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Originally Posted by dishuser

if you're on a lawn tractor why would you be on a steep grade?:tehe:

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For steep grades we use mountain cows, their legs are shorter on one side, that way they don't tip over.

Hello guys, another question was made today, this guy have always buy his trimmers and just use them without reading the manual, this last he bought yesterday after retiring the previous trimmer with almost 400 hours, read the manual and it was stated to use 2stroke oil for the mixture but a big NO to use 2 stroke outboard marine oil, he asked me why because he thought it was the same 2 stroke oil in a bigger bottle (1QT) instead of the 3.2OZ for trimmers.
No I started to get confused because I always use the outboard marine 2 stroke oil and have gain better then 50hours the normal trimmers are suppose to last, commercial trimmers are made to last 300hours.
So the questions here are:
Why the manual says NO to 2 stroke outboard marine oil?
What is the difference between the small bottle 3.2OZ to the outboard (1QT, TCW) bottle, both bottle says can be use for chainsaw, trimmers, etc, any 2 stroke engine?
Thanks TURBO.

Joestv our member at fix he specializes in the mechanics of lawn equipment you should send him a pm get him to put his input...

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Originally Posted by n3uspeed2

Joestv our member at fix he specializes in the mechanics of lawn equipment you should send him a pm get him to put his input...

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Thanks N3uspeed, done!

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Originally Posted by TurboPirate

Thanks N3uspeed, done!

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He helped me alot with my Snowblower what to do what not to do...saved me alot of time...

Marine 2 stroke oils are designed for water cooled engines_ one would think that air cooled engines run much hotter thus requiring oil that has@different properties.

Stan is correct.....you should only use outboard oil in outboard engines. Where oil and 2 stroke small engines is concerned, your best bet is to pony up the extra dough to use the oil recommended by the manufacturer. If it's a Toro, use Toro oil, etc. As for the ratio, it's not an exact science but a little too much oil won't hurt anything really, aside from making more smoke. Using 2 cycle oil designed for air cooled engines is what's most important.

You can get synthetic smokeless 2 cycle oil, which I use in my own 2 cycle equipment. I like synthetic oil for my cars, but I use dino oil in everything else. It's just a matter of preference. Basically, all synthetic oil is just more refined and top quality is what you are paying for. Where my auto's are concerned, I like the fact I need to worry about changing it less often than with conventional oil.

I'm getting off topic here, but as for synthetic oil and small 4 cycle small engines...... many small engines don't have oil filters. So in my opinion, what good is synthetic oil that's meant to last longer if it is only going to get dirty just as fast as the conventional oil does anyway? Again, just a matter of preference. My dad used to say "oil is oil", I guess that's true but what's really important is using the right weight oil. It's better to err on the side of being too thin than too thick IMO b/c thick oil doesn't circulate too well. I think that could be the reasoning behind outboard motor oil being only for outboard motors, I could be wrong though. :)

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Originally Posted by Joe's tv

Stan is correct.....you should only use outboard oil in outboard engines. Where oil and 2 stroke small engines is concerned, your best bet is to pony up the extra dough to use the oil recommended by the manufacturer. If it's a Toro, use Toro oil, etc. As for the ratio, it's not an exact science but a little too much oil won't hurt anything really, aside from making more smoke. Using 2 cycle oil designed for air cooled engines is what's most important.

You can get synthetic smokeless 2 cycle oil, which I use in my own 2 cycle equipment. I like synthetic oil for my cars, but I use dino oil in everything else. It's just a matter of preference. Basically, all synthetic oil is just more refined and top quality is what you are paying for. Where my auto's are concerned, I like the fact I need to worry about changing it less often than with conventional oil.

I'm getting off topic here, but as for synthetic oil and small 4 cycle small engines...... many small engines don't have oil filters. So in my opinion, what good is synthetic oil that's meant to last longer if it is only going to get dirty just as fast as the conventional oil does anyway? Again, just a matter of preference. My dad used to say "oil is oil", I guess that's true but what's really important is using the right weight oil. It's better to err on the side of being too thin than too thick IMO b/c thick oil doesn't circulate too well. I think that could be the reasoning behind outboard motor oil being only for outboard motors, I could be wrong though. :)

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Thanks Joe for the replay, I read it yesterday and was thinking about the info, now I wonder one thing, since day I bought my first trimmer until today I have always used TCW outboard 2 stoke oil, what damage have I done to my trimmers? I did notice using TCW and gas to oil mixture 18:1......8OZ of oil to 1 gallon of gas, I have increased the life of this trimmers, I once bought the RedMax brand because it is a commercial grade trimmer rated to last 300 hours compared to non commercial grade trimmers that are rated to 50Hours, Since I notice this Weed Eater, HomeLite, Ryobi, McCulloc and others last me 300 Hours using TCW, Now logic tells me you are right, this outboard engines are water cool and trimmers are not, so something bad I have done to this trimmers but what is it?
Thanks in advance Joe, TURBO.
Another thing, this last time I bought a trimmer was last week and a bought new Craftsman 2 stroke new models that I haven't figure wish brand really makes them, but with this new trimmer don't know why but I used(I guess I wanted to test) the little bottle of 2 Stroke oil 3.2OZ with fuel stabil in it but instead of 3.2OZ to the gallon I used 2 bottles making it 6.4OZ to the gallon= 20:1 mixture, but both bottle wasn't the same, I used 1 that came with blower/vac it was Craftsman Professional Synthetic Blend and 1 bottle of Craftsman 2 stroke non synthetic, both new trimmer and blower/vac works great no smoke at all wish I don't like.

My former next door neighbor (we moved) used to have an old 2 stroke Lawn Boy mower that he has had almost forever, since the early 70's according to him. He always used 10w-30 with the gas b/c it was cheaper that way (not sure what ratio) but it would seem to me if that was so bad the mower would have quit a long time ago. 2 stroke engines usually go bad when the compression drops from worn rings.

One thing I will say regarding power equipment is that if you ever admit to using any oil in a gasoline engine that is different than what the manufacturer recommends, it will void the warranty. That includes synthetics. I tend to agree with my dad in that "oil is oil" as long as the viscosity is correct. The worst thing that could happen by mixing too much oil into your gas would be that it could cause carbon buildup and possibly foul your plug. I've seen many a weedwhacker with plugged spark arrestor screens in the muffler.....that will cause problems for sure and is the last thing a DIY mechanic would think of. It happens so gradually you don't notice the drop in power until it barely runs anymore.

I guess the bottom line here is that to be safe, use the oil in your machines that the manufacturer recommends in the ratio he recommends. You may save a few bucks on oil by using cheaper stuff, but possibly ruin a good piece of equipment in doing so. If you find you get longer engine life with incorrect oil, maybe you are just lucky. Perhaps that could be b/c you have been mixing in more oil than is needed. :)

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Originally Posted by Joe's tv

My former next door neighbor (we moved) used to have an old 2 stroke Lawn Boy mower that he has had almost forever, since the early 70's according to him. He always used 10w-30 with the gas b/c it was cheaper that way (not sure what ratio) but it would seem to me if that was so bad the mower would have quit a long time ago. 2 stroke engines usually go bad when the compression drops from worn rings.

One thing I will say regarding power equipment is that if you ever admit to using any oil in a gasoline engine that is different than what the manufacturer recommends, it will void the warranty. That includes synthetics. I tend to agree with my dad in that "oil is oil" as long as the viscosity is correct. The worst thing that could happen by mixing too much oil into your gas would be that it could cause carbon buildup and possibly foul your plug. I've seen many a weedwhacker with plugged spark arrestor screens in the muffler.....that will cause problems for sure and is the last thing a DIY mechanic would think of. It happens so gradually you don't notice the drop in power until it barely runs anymore.

I guess the bottom line here is that to be safe, use the oil in your machines that the manufacturer recommends in the ratio he recommends. You may save a few bucks on oil by using cheaper stuff, but possibly ruin a good piece of equipment in doing so. If you find you get longer engine life with incorrect oil, maybe you are just lucky. Perhaps that could be b/c you have been mixing in more oil than is needed. :)

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Thanks Joe, I totally agree with you. So if I want to tune up the trimmer I should best start by removing the muffler, clean it with solvent to remove the extra oil and a new spark plug, I am not really damaging the engine with extra oil? Good I can live with that.
I could be lucky but it could be luck if I got longer life with 1 equipment not all of them, all my 2 stroke equipment have past the 200 hours when all of them were rated to 50 hours, the only equipment I have rated for 300 hours is the RedMax but this one is a commercial grade trimmer.

I heard an old timer that doesn't cut his own grass anymore said the same thing, he did the oil gas mixture with 10w/30 motor oil and said the engine last longer then suppose to, many early spark plug change but he never had to buy a new equipment to replace a worn out trimmer or other tool.

OK new thing came up today at small engine repair store, I talked to the guy for the best 2 stroke oil for my tools, and I shared what we have talked here in this thread, he said outboard 2 stroke oil can be used for trimmers but the trimmer will not rev up like it is suppose to, now (he said) there is an outboard 2 stroke engine oil that is for air cooled engines, he said it has all the additives that gas trimmers manufacturers demand, he said to read the info at the back of the bottle, if it says design for air cooled marine engines it has all the specs the manufacturers ask, he also said that I can use the manufacturers oil, but here is where I add that I want 1 2stroke oil to be use safe to all the 2 stroke brands I have, he showed me the oil he used when he was doing lawn care for 20 years before opening the store, Brand ALCO semi-synthetic, weird bottle I have seeing before, at top has a little bottle with marks, you squeeze the lower bottle and fill up the upper bottle for the ratio you want to mix with a gallon, he assure that all the equipment he had then lasted him almost 300 hours, and the engines rev high like it is suppose to, so I bought it, I'll upload a photo as soon as my daughter gives me back the camera. Thanks TURBO.

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Originally Posted by TurboPirate

he said outboard 2 stroke oil can be used for trimmers but the trimmer will not rev up like it is suppose to

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I've never gotten into marine engines, but it would seem to me the marine oil is thicker, that could be the reason it slows down the engine. That is also not a good thing, b/c thicker oil will not circulate as well. I learned that the hard way with my car once.......I had 20w-50 in it and took off like a bat out of hell one day with a cold engine and spun a rod bearing. :auto:

Most 2 stroke engines use needle roller bearings on the crank end of the rod and need a constant supply of oil in order to last. That's why they say not to use outboard oil, it must be too thick. You'd think a cooler running marine engine would need thinner oil but I guess not. Maybe they're pressure lubricated? I'm going to find out what weight outboard oil actually is.......I'll bet it's at least 40 weight. :)

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Originally Posted by Joe's tv

I've never gotten into marine engines, but it would seem to me the marine oil is thicker, that could be the reason it slows down the engine. That is also not a good thing, b/c thicker oil will not circulate as well. I learned that the hard way with my car once.......I had 20w-50 in it and took off like a bat out of hell one day with a cold engine and spun a rod bearing. :auto:

Most 2 stroke engines use needle roller bearings on the crank end of the rod and need a constant supply of oil in order to last. That's why they say not to use outboard oil, it must be too thick. You'd think a cooler running marine engine would need thinner oil but I guess not. Maybe they're pressure lubricated? I'm going to find out what weight outboard oil actually is.......I'll bet it's at least 40 weight. :)

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I am also sure it is a 40 weight, the guy at the store told me to stay away from water cool marine 2 stroke oil, to use only air cooled 2 stroke oil.

Hello guys, this is getting crazy, now a guy told me that if the trimmer that I have used for so long with TCW Marine 2 stroke oil and if I now start using the correct air cool 2 stroke oil that engine is going to die when it starts running with the correct oil, that will last for a week or so, I don't believe so but I am concern in the theory, it has some logic to it. What should I do with the old trimmer used to run with marine 2 stroke oil? Can I start using the correct oil or should I stay with the marine oil?
Thanks TURBO.

hey turbopirate. i to do yard work, not for a living but as a side job for the summer.(good money). as for the oil...i always used marine oil in my trimmers and im on the 7th year with one of them i use. now as for changing the brand of oil well, my dad told me once to never switch your brand of oil unless they stop making it. i dont know why but he's my dad so i alway use the same oil. being around engines all my life i dont think it would cause any serious damage but i wont do it. lol
now since we are on trimmers i purchased a new huscavarna trimmer/bush cutter this year. they said if i buy they're (six pack) then i get a three year warranty for free. might be something to this oil thing. oh yea, best trimmer i've ever seen or used. that will clear some land quick.

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Originally Posted by zoogor

now since we are on trimmers i purchased a new huscavarna trimmer/bush cutter this year. they said if i buy they're (six pack) then i get a three year warranty for free. might be something to this oil thing. oh yea, best trimmer i've ever seen or used. that will clear some land quick.

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Those and stihl also redmax are trimmers that will clear land fast.
Thanks for the info, the way the extend the warranty to 3 years if you buy their 2 stroke oil kinds of makes you think that oil has something that will make the trimmer last 3 years doesn't it? Good deal, a 3 years extend warranty for 6 bottles of 2 stroke oil.

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Originally Posted by TurboPirate

OK new thing came up today at small engine repair store, I talked to the guy for the best 2 stroke oil for my tools, and I shared what we have talked here in this thread, he said outboard 2 stroke oil can be used for trimmers but the trimmer will not rev up like it is suppose to, now (he said) there is an outboard 2 stroke engine oil that is for air cooled engines, he said it has all the additives that gas trimmers manufacturers demand, he said to read the info at the back of the bottle, if it says design for air cooled marine engines it has all the specs the manufacturers ask, he also said that I can use the manufacturers oil, but here is where I add that I want 1 2stroke oil to be use safe to all the 2 stroke brands I have, he showed me the oil he used when he was doing lawn care for 20 years before opening the store, Brand ALCO semi-synthetic, weird bottle I have seeing before, at top has a little bottle with marks, you squeeze the lower bottle and fill up the upper bottle for the ratio you want to mix with a gallon, he assure that all the equipment he had then lasted him almost 300 hours, and the engines rev high like it is suppose to, so I bought it, I'll upload a photo as soon as my daughter gives me back the camera. Thanks TURBO.

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Finally got my camera back lol, here is the 2 stroke semi-synthetic oil the guy at the store recommended me for all my air cooled 2 stroke engines, this is the one he told me he used before opening the store when he was doing patios.
Tell me if you recognize the brand and your opinion of it.
Thanks in advance TURBO.

Some of my tools, others are in my mom's house.
The last photo is of the trimmer I love most, it was bought in Feb 2002 and it has almost 300 hours, it fires up from the first pull and will not stop working unless runs out of gas.
The red Craftsman its brand new, only minutes of use when I bought it I had to hear it running.

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Originally Posted by TurboPirate

Tell me if you recognize the brand and your opinion of it.

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Like my dad used to say........oil is oil, it looks no different than any other oil to me. :)

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Originally Posted by Joe's tv

Like my dad used to say........oil is oil, it looks no different than any other oil to me. :)

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Indeed, this synthetic, non synthetic, semi synthetic has to have some advantages or not.

Water-cooled, two-cycle engine oils require higher levels of a heavy oil to prevent piston and cylinder wall scuffing. Because of their high average piston temperature, lighter oils evaporate too quickly from the piston cylinder contact area. The heavy base oil, which vaporizes at very high temperatures, resists evaporation and remains in place to provide lubrication to the piston and cylinder.

Air-cooled oil formulations must have much lower levels of the heavy base oil than water-cooled engine oils. These oils require only a small amount of heavy oil to provide protection against piston scuffing and seizure at peak temperatures. High levels of heavy base oils in an oil formulated for air-cooled engines can cause engine deposits. These deposits form as a result of incomplete burning of the heavy oil. The deposits can cause piston ring sticking and can eventually plug or disrupt the flow of the exhaust system, resulting in power loss and possible engine damage. Detergent additives should not be used in water-cooled, two-cycle oil formulations. When burned with the fuel, detergents produce an ash deposit in the cylinders. This ash deposit can possibly foul spark plugs, form exhaust port deposits which cause loss of power, and possibly create cylinder hot spots that can cause destructive pre-ignition. On the other hand, the only way to protect air-cooled, two-cycle engines against piston ring sticking at their high peak temperatures is to include some detergent additives in the oil formulation. Detergents provide high temperature deposit control not available from other additives used in the oil. However, in the air-cooled engine, any ash deposits that could form from the detergents are dislodged by engine vibration and exhausted from the engine.

Now viscosity of the oil is a bit different as to the break down and environment your in .
As to water or land.

Outboard oil is better and less smoke..

Now synthetic oil (full not part) are very good..I race a high performance sled .
The power gain,less smoke,less oil use,more lubrication and running cooler..to the old carbon ash oil .

Not recommended for breaking in or new engines .

Now as far as what the factory tells you use..will remember they make or label there oil and warranty of coarse .So they tell you want to use.

I think most that have used outboard in there lawn equipment have proven it .

Oil is your cheapest and most protection in a engine .
New oil are allways better than the old 10w ...lol

4 stroke..can get away with a cheaper oil with more changes .
But a 2 stroke is critical of how it uses it .Plus they way you mixture is ...
Best oil...longer lasting engine
Best mix...longer lasting ....plus performance .
R.P.M;s will kill as to lean ...over oiling...will cause a lean condition .(that mean if your mix is to fat on oil .)
So Lean will caought higher RPM..plus heat .

best is to proper oil adjustment with fuel ...Than ajust your high side to bring porper RPM's for power and not to high so it wears out fast .

Or you can cheat...and shorten throttle up if you your self are not using it .

Good power..job goes faster...

Lets put this way..factory set motor fat and mixture..So it last longer.....or untill warranty is up.

So if it says 50:1..most common now .Just look at the plug after running wide open for a minute or so...Center electrode should be light to dark brown or tan and out side at threads should be black.Good mix and adjustment .Lighter on electrode..mean a leaner mix....Darker richer

Cheers

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Originally Posted by 1boxman

So if it says 50:1..most common now .Just look at the plug after running wide open for a minute or so...Center electrode should be light to dark brown or tan and out side at threads should be black.Good mix and adjustment .Lighter on electrode..mean a leaner mix....Darker richer

Cheers

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OK now that you mention this, let me tell you what I found, I used my old ryobi 30cc trimmer, wish since day one I was using TCW Marine 2 stroke oil, 18:1 mixture, 8OZ to 1 gallon of gas, this last Tuesday I used with this ryobi 20:1 mixture 6OZ to 1 gallon of gas using Craftsman Professional Sythetic Blend, the new Blower/Vac I checked the spark plug after the first use, 15 minutes and the spark plug was brown, but when I checked the ryobi spark plug, this one came out white as snow, I did notice almost at the end, (when I finished cutting) that the ryobi didn't want to rev high, I looked at the High needle and it moved, (I marked all the needles of my equipments) it moved to clockwise wish is closing, so I guess because it moved to closing that is why it didn't rev high at the end and that is why the spark plug came out white, I re adjust the needle today and will give it a 5 minute test and will see what color comes out this time.
Thanks for the info. TURBO.

OK, did the 5 minutes test and Ryobi over heated, I guess is adapted to the marine oil, it never over heated, but the new equipment will be running the proper oil.

I have to admit that I use the same gas/oil for every 2 stroke appliance I operate (32
;1)- to be fair I only do my own back yard,,, lol the tractor (4 stroke) is runnin on synthetic. The ryobi trimmer isn't complaining to-date ( knock on wood).

Ya white not good on a 2 stroke....If real white...take a magnifying glass...you mite see aluminum . But any crap in crab or main jet...will lean it to..I put a bit of stabilizer in mine or a fuel cleaner....just keep the small ports cleaned out .

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Originally Posted by StanW

I have to admit that I use the same gas/oil for every 2 stroke appliance I operate (32
;1)- to be fair I only do my own back yard,,, lol the tractor (4 stroke) is runnin on synthetic. The ryobi trimmer isn't complaining to-date ( knock on wood).

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Ya I think most are about that ..some stihls are 50:1...better transfer ports and the way the oil is trapped .

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Originally Posted by 1boxman

Ya white not good on a 2 stroke....If real white...take a magnifying glass...you mite see aluminum . But any crap in crab or main jet...will lean it to..I put a bit of stabilizer in mine or a fuel cleaner....just keep the small ports cleaned out .

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I always use Stabil in all my gas tanks...............the new Stabil says it has carb cleaner in it already...............................
Well it over heated but spark plug didn't come out white this time, more brownish I removed the muffler to see the walls nothing busted yet.

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Originally Posted by TurboPirate

I always use Stabil in all my gas tanks...............the new Stabil says it has carb cleaner in it already...............................
Well it over heated but spark plug didn't come out white this time, more brownish I removed the muffler to see the walls nothing busted yet.

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Right on....if you look at top of piston threw plug hole....put piston to bottom and take a small LED light ..should beable to see...look at piston near exhausted port....usually the piston well melt first... than ring will stick because of top ring lance melting ...But they will take a lot ...but once it hit the the yelled point...depend on cast ...1300 to 1400 .....china syndrome...You know...

Good test .