E-mail & letter from satscams!!! WTF

[jvvh5897]

One of the points of my last post was to show reduction ad absurdum. A similar argument might be: I own many sharp and blunt instruments, so it seems I am guilty of murder since they might be used to kill a person.

I wonder if this idea might have some defense possibilities: Set up your IKS server to ping local and national political figures and judges--then you could show in court that there was internet traffic with those folks---since you were communicating with them, they are guilty of a violation as much as you. I know the judge will say: "They are not on trial, you are", but still, they might get the case tossed. On the user side, I suppose they too could ping (or do something more interesting--say UDP CW packets) a similar list--but the idea might need a little tweak for users.

[hondoharry]

Yes you can take it all the way to court and maybe win if they have no incriminating FTA pirate forum posts or PM's but your lawyer and other fees will definitely cost more unless you could get DN to pay them.

[jvvh5897]

Oh, please! If you have a good lawyer then you counter sue them and win.

[Nostradamus]

Oh, please! If you have a good lawyer then you counter sue them and win.

just curious as to where you got your law degree or if you are speaking from experience and have fought them and won? Otherwise your opinion is nothing more than conjecture either and last time I looked this whole thread is based on conjecture and personal opinion so your idea is no better or worse than anybody else's but when was the last time you seen anybody turn the tables on them that way and win a countersuit?

now it just seems to be the general consensus that anybody getting caught doing that just pay the initial demand and make it go away. If you decide to fight it in some manner, odds are the outcome will be the same and the penalty will be much higher if you lose as you are also paying for court time and their legal team as well. Oh and don't forget your own lawyer bill as well and you still have to be able to persuade the judge that you bought a code for stealing TV and never used it and had no intention of doing so. LOL

The paper trail outlined in the demand letter basically states the paper trail and what the code was for. I suppose if the code had any other use you might have a valid point but as things are you do not. So if you want to rack up $20 grand in legal costs for the same outcome then go for it but I haven't seen any end users that stupid yet. Granted stupid enough to use IKS and a leave a paper trail but not that stupid that they dont know the difference between $20000 and $3500.

What I don't think is fair is these resellers maintaining records and then tossing their clients under the bus so they get out of jail free card. Want to counter sue somebody because you got a demand letter for your illegal actions, start a class action suit against the guy who sold it you

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

What grounds would there be for a counter lawsuit. ?



GS2

[dishuser]

haven't seen a post anywhere that an end user has won

[hondoharry]

What grounds would there be for a counter lawsuit. ?



GS2

Assuming DN loses the case and the defendant wasn't awarded his legal costs, he might consider a counter lawsuit.

[jvvh5897]

You know the FTA world has to have the poorest criminals around! Real Darwin Award level. You don't bother to cover your tracks in the first place, then when things go bad post about it and have no idea of an exit strategy. Any real legal advice never gets posted and if any suggest an option, then they are ignored. I've suggested group of folks that get letters join together to get good legal help in the past--no sign that that happened. I've suggested ways to counter posts getting viewed--no sign of that happening. I've suggested ways to get folks with money to block suits coming to trial. Really, what are any of you doing that is positive? Seems the position here is lay back and take it.

[jazzman]

You're right jvvh but my "friend" just went ahead and paid "his" $3,500 and has posted this way ever since to CYA. If everyone posted this way there would be a better legal defense because there would be no incriminating posts to show proof these codes were ever used and nothing was gained by it. Just a word to the wise, NEVER post that "I'm" up on so and so's service or down either because then they've got you by the balls lol. At least my "friend" has delayed further action this way and BTW...never pay with paypal or something that can be easily traced. Take the word of someone who knows (but is not me) PLEASE! BE SAFE my friends.

EDIT: I'm not saying this will save your ass because many of you are already guilty of posting the other way but at least for newbies keep this in mind as they will come after you! I feel for all of zoogers clients that it may already be too late for. JMO

[kutter]

Assuming DN loses the case and the defendant wasn't awarded his legal costs, he might consider a counter lawsuit.

is that even possible ...

in the US ... win or lose, everyone pays their own legal costs unless there is a specific contract between the parties or the statute allows the judge some discretion ... neither of which appears to be the case ...

[TLG]

Oh brother !?!?

[TLG]

If there were any winners to the letter, they were settled; and on condition of banned publication.
By winners I don't mean court winners, I mean winners who made a case with the lawyers by showing
and creating doubt thus weakening the case against themselves.

No one wants to risk going through a whole court procedure only to lose,,, and neither does the other side.

The advice being given (if anyone is even reading this thread for advice) to just pay up,, isn't solid advice
cause there are so many variables,, it doesn't apply to everyone’s case.

Of coarse there were winner,, none of them will ever come to this thread and say a word because the
the general concensus on the idea is.....****em !!

[kutter]

If there were any winners to the letter, they were settled; and on condition of banned publication.
By winners I don't mean court winners, I mean winners who made a case with the lawyers by showing
and creating doubt thus weakening the case against themselves.

No one wants to risk going through a whole court procedure only to lose,,, and neither does the other side.

The advice being given (if anyone is even reading this thread for advice) to just pay up,, isn't solid advice
cause there are so many variables,, it doesn't apply to everyone’s case.

Of coarse there were winner,, none of them will ever come to this thread and say a word because the
the general concensus on the idea is.....****em !!

you can't show one case where an end user was successful in their attempts to reduce the award to less than the original demand ...

but there are numerous cases (public documents) that show exactly the opposite

while I will admit there have been some unusual results you'd be a fool to think that those were in the end users favor ... I'm willing to bet that the cases that were "Confidential Settlements" were a result of the end user and their lawyer agreeing to pay the $7500 instead of continuing with the case and ending up with a judgement of $10,000.

the cases that I would be more interested in are the ones that DN Voluntarily Dismissed ... and there were a number of those ... IMO those might hold something of value ...

but to suggest that the advice to pay up isn't solid, and show nothing but speculation as your proof doesn't seem all logical to me

[jedi]

There have been people that have entered a defence against their Claim (without the assistnace of a lawyer) and they have stopped their proceedings - but it takes a lot of effort and time.
In my opinion if they offer to sit down and talk with you or if they try to serve you - face the music and try to see what they have against you. I bet in most cases they only have one piece of evidence against you and there may be chance you can explain why you are "not guilty". It may be a long shot - but I think it is better than sticking your head in the sand and refusing to talk to them. From what I have heard the guys that refuse to talk to them or ignore their letters end up getting default judgements against them.

jvh.... was right none of us should be so stupid to be caught in their traps - never use you own emails, credit cards, PayPal or anything that can be linked to you when you pay for a service.
But if they do nab you - I think it is best to talk to them and see what they have.

[dungchau6262]

What happen if you send the money on pay pad is 2 way 1 is send is: pay for good or services and 2 is send money to friend or family , But I know the re seller is always tell you send is for friend or family and Disk say is buy the codes ? what should you do ?