Teak repairs

[ron3033]

Hello

A friend of mine has a steel hull boat with teak doors. Over the many years the teak doors have split and cracked badly. He was able to get two pieces of teak at a exorbitant price. He also got West Epoxy, as he was told it is the best glue to hold teak together due to its' oiliness.

Any suggestions before we start the door repairs would be appreciated? I have not worked with teak or West Epoxy, nor has my friend.

Again any ideas would be helpful.

thanks
ron3033

[jerryc]

Sticking stuff together and having it stay together is an important part of building and repairing boats and boating gear. Finding the right adhesive for the job is super important.

G/flex Epoxy is a toughened, resilient two-part epoxy that gives a superior waterproof bond to plastics, metals, fiberglass, masonry, glass and wet and difficult-to-bond woods. It’s a marine-grade adhesive, manufactured by a company that knows boating, and epoxy.

G/flex is made by West System, a division of Gougeon Brothers, Inc. The Gougeon brothers have some 40 years of experience in using epoxy to build and repair boats. So, with G/flex you’re getting an adhesive specifically designed for the boating community.


Why NRS is carrying G/flex Epoxy:
We strive to give our customers the products they need to succeed in their boating adventures. We have a number of excellent adhesives, including ones for Hypalon® and urethane/vinyl repair. Still, a number of you have asked for adhesives that will adhere to plastics, fiberglass, wood and aluminum and we didn’t have anything to offer you. So, we set out to find products that would work on these very different materials.
We assumed we would need several different products to be able to handle all these jobs. Then, we found G/flex Epoxy. Not only did it work on all these materials, but test results showed that it works very well.

Something many of you have asked for is to be able to glue D-ring patches to your ABS, polyethylene (HDPE, LDPE) or composite kayaks or canoes. D-rings and G/flex Epoxy discusses gluing Hypalon, PVC and urethane coated D-ring patches to HDPE plastic. Gluing plastic with G/flex chronicles test results on ABS, PVC, polyethylene and polycarbonate plastics. Repairing a Royalex™ Canoe with G/flex Epoxy shows how some boaters repaired a canoe with 58 cracks in its hull; saving it from the dumpster. You can even patch holes in aluminum boats with G/flex Epoxy!

At the 2007 International Boat Builders’ Exhibition & Conference (IBEX), G/flex Epoxy won an Innovation Award in the boatbuilding methods and materials category. The presentation was made by the National Marine Manufacturers Association, following judging by members of Boating Writers International.

We’re excited to offer G/flex to you in three different formats:

•650-8 Epoxy is 4-ounces each of viscous liquid 650 resin and hardener and complete handling and repair instructions.
•650-K Repair Kit includes 4-ounces each of the liquid 650 resin and hardener, plus two reusable mixing stick/applicators, two 12-cc syringes, four grams of adhesive filler (for custom thickening of the mixed epoxy), four mixing cups, a pair of disposable gloves, four alcohol cleaning pads and complete handling and repair instructions.
•655-K Repair Kit is also in kit form, giving you 4.5-ounces each of thickened G/flex 655 resin and hardener, two reusable mixing stick/applicators, four alcohol cleaning pads, a pair of disposable gloves, 10 mixing palettes and complete handling and repair instructions.
In each of the above product pages, in the More Information box, we’ve included links to the instruction sheets and sample projects that come with the G/flex Epoxy. They’re very detailed and easy to follow.

Properties of G/flex Epoxy that make it superior for use by boaters:

•Toughness and flexibility: G/flex has been “toughened,” formulated to give bonds that can absorb the stresses of expansion, contraction, shock and vibration. It’s resilient, impact resistant and more flexible than other epoxies, some three-times more flexible than most.
•It bonds well to a variety of materials, including dissimilar ones: Plastics, metals, fiberglass, wood, ceramics, rubber and much more.
•It’s easy to use: Resin and hardener are mixed in a 1-to-1 ratio, by volume. It has a relatively long open working time, yet it cures quickly and can be used in cool temperatures.
•It gives good adhesion to wet and damp surfaces: It lets you glue to damp woods. It can be used on wet surfaces, even underwater when applied with specific techniques.
•It gives excellent adhesion to hard-to-bond woods: Domestic and exotic woods that are hard to glue, like white oak, teak, purpleheart and ipe bond successfully with G/flex.
•It’s great for so much more than boats and boating equipment! You’ll find many more uses for G/flex. Glue and repair leather and synthetic shoes and boots, seal gutters and drains, bond coated and uncoated fabrics. Repair spas, snowmobile and motorcycle fenders, tubs and showers, tool handles, hockey sticks, tennis and racquetball rackets, household ceramics and so much more!

[jerryc]

West Teak artisans use traditional wood joinery in the creation of our product line. Mortise and Tenon joints (a rectangular peg fitted tightly into a precisely cut rectangular hole) are used extensively throughout our line. This joint, when properly constructed, allows a larger gluing surface, and a very strong mechanical bond between two pieces of wood. We do not use screws to hold our furniture together, most joints are glued and dowelled. Glued dowels are stronger than screws, since there is a greater bearing surface for the glue to bind to. Additionally, we have found that wood and metal expand and contract at different rates with changes in temperature, therefore metal parts can loosen. That is why the finest interior furniture is doweled instead of screwed. It is a hallmark of fine cabinetry and furniture construction.

Other traditional wood joinery techniques such as dovetails and splined joints are used to ensure precise joints that start out tight stay tight. Our furniture is shipped fully assembled. It does not arrive in a flat box with a bag of strange bolts. Our joinery methods of mortise and tenons combined with dowels and two-part epoxy glue make for a much stronger joint than bolts can provide, but don't plan on taking it apart without a chainsaw!

So, when you are evaluating teak furniture, we urge you to look very closely at the fit and finish of the joinery. Crawl underneath the table, check out the parts that don't show obviously - they give you an indication of the overall level of quality throughout the entire piece, the entire product line. Look at the thickness of the wood used in its construction (All our tables are a full 1 ¼ inch thick). If there are moving parts, try them - see how smoothly the furniture operates. Look for uniformity in the color and grain patterns. On curved pieces, look at the grain to see if the curved piece was cut as a curve, or was steam bent into a curve. (Steam bent curves want to straighten out over time; they can be identified by grain that follows the curve around). Caress the wood, make sure it is as smooth as silk. As you educate yourself, you will quickly see that West Teak offers the highest quality for the greatest value.

this all follows with what your doing

[jerryc]

Some useful information from the Rot Doctor . . .
Wood is a flexible material composed of long fibers consisting mainly of cellulose (a kind of very high molecular weight sugar) with lots of chemical groups called hydroxyl groups. These readily bond weakly (hydrogen bonds) with water. The wood will swell and shrink depending on the amount of water that has bonded with the cellulose. To get a good bond with paint, epoxy, urethane or any other coating, you need to reduce the amount of water (and saps and oils) and form a bonding surface for the coating. This is exactly what Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer does and why it is the most important first step for preparing wood for any kind of coating. You will never get a good rotten wood repair without the CPES. You may get a surface bond without the CPES if natural conditions are just right, but we will guarantee a permanent bond with the Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer.

That said, let's now look at epoxy resins. Each manufacturer/distributor/formulator discuss their particular resins, activator ratios, blushing, etc. --and how much resin you're getting for your dollar. All very interesting. But what about the virgin resin itself? Where does that come from? And does it make a difference?

Approximately 75% of all virgin epoxy resin sold in the U.S. comes from three manufacturers: Shell, Dow and Ciba-Geigy. Only Ciba-Geigy is not back-integrated. These resins are almost always petroleum-based resins (oil, natural gas) and are in turn sold to manufacturer-distributors, such as WEST. They can be "doctored" to some extent, bottled/drummed and sold with activators of various intensities. Price is critical because most epoxy resin in the marine market goes to manufacturers, marine retail outlets, shops and yards --and we know all about that.

Virgin epoxy resin can also be obtained from wood. It's more expensive to obtain, but yields a tougher and more flexible cured product than petroleum-based products. TRY THIS TEST: Take whatever epoxy resin you're using, mix it with activator as per directions, and pour a small pool on a piece of visquine or plastic wrap. Let it cure. Now pick it up and break it. It snaps apart, right? Some even shatter with flying shards (wear safety glasses!). Make the same test with any of our epoxies and you'll see a dramatic difference--tougher and more flexible. Now we ask you: Which do you want in and on your wood?

All the epoxy products that THE ROT DOCTOR sells are manufactured from wood derived resins. We do this because we know that from start to finish you'll get a better, tougher more flexible bond when repairing wood in your boat or house. Remember, wood is flexible and anything you add to it or on it should be flexible as well. More expensive, sure, but most good things are. You might as well buy the best.

[sneerboy]

Cheap teak can be found at some marinas.
Many boats are (were?) transported from the east in teak shipping cradles.

Lots of wood in 6X6 teak timbers.

[ron3033]

Thanks Jerryc yes the info you provided is extremely helpful. Again thank you. The old doors from the boat were indeed mortised and tenon at corners and dowelled along the long uprights.

Ron3033

West Teak artisans use traditional wood joinery in the creation of our product line. Mortise and Tenon joints (a rectangular peg fitted tightly into a precisely cut rectangular hole) are used extensively throughout our line. This joint, when properly constructed, allows a larger gluing surface, and a very strong mechanical bond between two pieces of wood. We do not use screws to hold our furniture together, most joints are glued and dowelled. Glued dowels are stronger than screws, since there is a greater bearing surface for the glue to bind to. Additionally, we have found that wood and metal expand and contract at different rates with changes in temperature, therefore metal parts can loosen. That is why the finest interior furniture is doweled instead of screwed. It is a hallmark of fine cabinetry and furniture construction.

Other traditional wood joinery techniques such as dovetails and splined joints are used to ensure precise joints that start out tight stay tight. Our furniture is shipped fully assembled. It does not arrive in a flat box with a bag of strange bolts. Our joinery methods of mortise and tenons combined with dowels and two-part epoxy glue make for a much stronger joint than bolts can provide, but don't plan on taking it apart without a chainsaw!

So, when you are evaluating teak furniture, we urge you to look very closely at the fit and finish of the joinery. Crawl underneath the table, check out the parts that don't show obviously - they give you an indication of the overall level of quality throughout the entire piece, the entire product line. Look at the thickness of the wood used in its construction (All our tables are a full 1 ¼ inch thick). If there are moving parts, try them - see how smoothly the furniture operates. Look for uniformity in the color and grain patterns. On curved pieces, look at the grain to see if the curved piece was cut as a curve, or was steam bent into a curve. (Steam bent curves want to straighten out over time; they can be identified by grain that follows the curve around). Caress the wood, make sure it is as smooth as silk. As you educate yourself, you will quickly see that West Teak offers the highest quality for the greatest value.

this all follows with what your doing

[StanW]

After reading all this I wonder how G/flex Epoxy would work on leaking rivets on an aluminum boat ?

[ron3033]

After reading all this I wonder how G/flex Epoxy would work on leaking rivets on an aluminum boat ?

StanW

I have been told that there is a product that is a two part metal weld, I believe one may have been called JB Metal Weld. It or similar products may be available at CTC or auto parts suppliers.

It is not duck hunting season yet, so you may have time to look. I will check with my co worker who is a welder, he may have some ideas.

Ron3033

[StanW]

I'm familiar with jbweld - just looking for alternative methods ... Picked up a little alum duck boat that is leaking pretty bad arount about 20 rivets. Am contemplating alum brazing rods - called alumaloy, pretty impressive.

[ron3033]

I'm familiar with jbweld - just looking for alternative methods ... Picked up a little alum duck boat that is leaking pretty bad arount about 20 rivets. Am contemplating alum brazing rods - called alumaloy, pretty impressive.

StanW my buddy at work said there was a way to weld aluminium, but he did not give me the specifics. Today is the 8th, will ask tomorrow about "alumaloy"

Ron3033

[StanW]

I weld aluminum ( blob and grind method being my specialty .lol) ...

The alumaloy rods are something else - you can repairs a hole made in a pop can. Let me know what your buddy thinks - as it stands I'm going to get both the rods and jbweld.

[ron3033]

I weld aluminum ( blob and grind method being my specialty .lol) ...

The alumaloy rods are something else - you can repairs a hole made in a pop can. Let me know what your buddy thinks - as it stands I'm going to get both the rods and jbweld.

StanW

I called my coworker buddy at home about welding aluminium. His take from past experience is : 1.)) much dirt and oxidation will be on the aluminium and under the rivets. When heat is applied and the rods are used the dirt etc...seems to come to the surface and you have real difficulty getting a good bond or weld. He said it must be real clean 2.)) he said he has seen boats that have a plastic between the seams of the aluminium panels tha thave the rivets in them. I asked him if this was like the teflon type gaskets that are often used in seawater pumps for inboard/outboard marine motors. He seemed to think it was the same thing. He said when no plastic and real clean he could get a good weld. 3.)) His past experience with this type of situatiion like you have is to use a good two part marine epoxy.

I don't know if this helps you, but let me know what you do and what works.
P.S. I know you have a life jacket and a bailing bucket handy, we need to keep valuable members healthy.

Ron3033

[StanW]

Looks like jb weld is the way to go , I'll try the rods also , out of curiosity . Thanks for your help.

[ron3033]

Looks like jb weld is the way to go , I'll try the rods also , out of curiosity . Thanks for your help.

Let me know when you do the repairs how it goes so I can pass on to my buddy too

Ron3033