DN $3500 demand

[sodusme]

Res Ipsa Loquitur

OK and just what 'facts' do they have? They have some codes and those are NOT illegal to possess. If they were then show me the ruling on it. I know a couple of you guys are hell bent on proving that these codes 'speak for themselves' but yet can't show any concrete evidence as to how. I know you'll point to all those 'judgments' as evidence of it....but all those judgments are is people that were stupid and ignored the matter entirely and had a default judgment entered against them. Hardly a win for the scorebook on DN's part IMO. A pirates stupidity does not a genius make on DN's part.

Furthermore if these codes are so damn illegal to possess then why haven't they shut down NFPS's website? If they have proven that these are illegal (which some are you guys are beating in the ground)....than why in the hell is their website still up and running? That doesn't make good sense when you think about it does it? Unless like I said DN doesn't really want to end piracy because its lucrative for them. Look at all the sites that have been pulled for selling fake Gucci and Nike and NFL stuff....but you mean to tell me that DN/Nagra can't get a few rogue sites selling these SUPPOSEDLY illegal codes shut down?

GMAFB....

[alex70olds]

but you mean to tell me that DN/Nagra can't get a few rogue sites selling these SUPPOSEDLY illegal codes shut down?

GMAFB....

Those few rogue sites might be pretty good at hiding.These were not. JMHO

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 145.ftaalpha1.com
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 179.jd-sat.de
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 182.kandsplasticparts.com
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 185.kryptview-ireland.com
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 187.kyrptview-ireland.com
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 192.mallstreets.ca
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 197.mikobu.ca
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 200.myftamarket.com
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[sodusme]

Nah man as much as the moles troll these sites gathering posts and what not....they have the URL's of NFPS's sites where they do business. Hell you can find 'em with a Google search. And I know the guys that run those sites and all the resellers well say "Well they are hosted offshore in a cave high on a mountain in Timbuktu". To which I will I say "That doesn't mean squat since they are using TLD's for their domain names". Doesn't matter where the i.p. is out of and it doesn't matter who provides the hosting as long as that TLD is seizeable and trust me it is. So two things are occurring (A) The codes are NOT illegal and there is not a damn thing they can do to the sites.....or.....(B) They don't wanna shut 'em down because its lucrative and they make millions on these default judgments.

I'm open to either option as a viable answer.

[jeldf]

N*P* is a dot com......they could take that down easily.

[alex70olds]

we are talking domain here? They could not sieze server, correct? The files them selves are enough by themselves. If the seize domain, could they not just use IP, as others have done?

[sodusme]

we are talking domain here? They could not sieze server, correct? The files them selves are enough by themselves. If the seize domain, could they not just use IP, as others have done?

Well whatever that server i.p. equates to domain wise opens it up to a seizure. I don't know the i.p.s that they operate on but if I remember correctly they were running on TLD's that could be seized.

Which brings up a good discussion....again if these code words are sooooooooooo illegal....then why do you allow a company to transmit them to facilitate piracy? That in itself doesn't make sense? If 'possession' of a code is illegal....then the transmission of them through the internet has to be illegal?

[alex70olds]

Well whatever that server i.p. equates to domain wise opens it up to a seizure. I don't know the i.p.s that they operate on but if I remember correctly they were running on TLD's that could be seized.

Which brings up a good discussion....again if these code words are sooooooooooo illegal....then why do you allow a company to transmit them to facilitate piracy? That in itself doesn't make sense? If 'possession' of a code is illegal....then the transmission of them through the internet has to be illegal?

I thought the codes were emailed? The site's host files (forums) which have been enough in the past. The sites that sell? Yeah, kind of interesting.

[sodusme]

I thought the codes were emailed? The site's host files (forums) which have been enough in the past. The sites that sell? Yeah, kind of interesting.

No when I said 'codes'....I meant 'code words' that decrypt the signal. If those have been ruled on and I believe they have in a court of law and are illegal to possess/own/operate or whatever the hell the ruling was....than certainly it is illegal to send those through the internet from a 'server'. And by server I mean the i.p.'s that you connect to for NFPS they are resolved to a domain of some kind. Last I knew it was like nfps1.xxxx.com or .tv or whatever it was. I mean the control codes are sent through the internet right? Or has the control word already done its job by the time it reaches an end users receiver? It really doesn't matter anyways 'cause at some point those control words would have to be traveling by way of the internet....even if it was just to the 'server' that NFPS is running....so again we are back to the domain seizure as a venue to end this? And yet it doesn't occur?

Then you also have the sites that sell the 'subscription' codes?

So again I ask you what is the reasoning for not cutting the head off the dragon? Profit to the bottom line? That is all I can think of. These guys are actually looking more like fools for the simple fact that they don't end this once and for all. And by 'these guys' I mean DN/Nagra and their stooge attorneys.

[alex70olds]

No when I said 'codes'....I meant 'code words' that decrypt the signal. If those have been ruled on and I believe they have in a court of law and are illegal to possess/own/operate or whatever the hell the ruling was....than certainly it is illegal to send those through the internet from a 'server'. And by server I mean the i.p.'s that you connect to for NFPS they are resolved to a domain of some kind. Last I knew it was like nfps1.xxxx.com or .tv or whatever it was. I mean the control codes are sent through the internet right? Or has the control word already done its job by the time it reaches an end users receiver? It really doesn't matter anyways 'cause at some point those control words would have to be traveling by way of the internet....even if it was just to the 'server' that NFPS is running....so again we are back to the domain seizure as a venue to end this? And yet it doesn't occur?

Then you also have the sites that sell the 'subscription' codes?

So again I ask you what is the reasoning for not cutting the head off the dragon? Profit to the bottom line? That is all I can think of. These guys are actually looking more like fools for the simple fact that they don't end this once and for all. And by 'these guys' I mean DN/Nagra and their stooge attorneys.

Ah, I was refering to the subscription codes. sorry bro, I should know better than try to think about this crap when I am working. lol

[sodusme]

Ah, I was refering to the subscription codes. sorry bro, I should know better than try to think about this crap when I am working. lol

1.nfpsserver.tv

Classic example there and I think there are a dozen domains hosted within a given block of i.p.'s. All the domains are hosted with synhost.net with a Lithuanian i.p. assigned to them....which I know, I know the knuckleheads of NFPS think are untouchable. But its hosted on a TLD of .TV....which is VERY much seizeable. So again if your DN/Nagra....and you know that your signal is being pirated and furthermore you know its being pirated by way of these domains....than why in the hell do you leave these domain's up? And yes they do know these domains exist....they have to there is no way they couldn't. I'm telling you it makes no sense at all.

Now I'm not advocating that they pull these domains so don't read that into it. I'm just noticing the irony of hey here is a domain that you can prove without a shadow of a damn doubt that is leading to the piracy of your signal and you leave it up?!?! But yet they try and haul the @sses of some regular joe's into court and sue them for pirating the signal based on some damn 'codes' being exchanged through Paypal?

Am I the only one that this doesn't make a lick of sense to? I hope not 'cause if I am than I need to get some other forums to hang out on.

[kboom]

True the biggest bang for the buck is go after the end user. Why chase the domain around the globe.

[Hannibalector]

1.nfpsserver.tv

Classic example there and I think there are a dozen domains hosted within a given block of i.p.'s. All the domains are hosted with synhost.net with a Lithuanian i.p. assigned to them....which I know, I know the knuckleheads of NFPS think are untouchable. But its hosted on a TLD of .TV....which is VERY much seizeable. So again if your DN/Nagra....and you know that your signal is being pirated and furthermore you know its being pirated by way of these domains....than why in the hell do you leave these domain's up? And yes they do know these domains exist....they have to there is no way they couldn't. I'm telling you it makes no sense at all.

Now I'm not advocating that they pull these domains so don't read that into it. I'm just noticing the irony of hey here is a domain that you can prove without a shadow of a damn doubt that is leading to the piracy of your signal and you leave it up?!?! But yet they try and haul the @sses of some regular joe's into court and sue them for pirating the signal based on some damn 'codes' being exchanged through Paypal?

Am I the only one that this doesn't make a lick of sense to? I hope not 'cause if I am than I need to get some other forums to hang out on.

I said it way back Sod, they (dn attorneys) are profit clearing houses set up to profit for the provider, they are the sleeziest sob's on the planet and the reason I call them ambulance chasers, just as they nagra have the ability to swap out there conditional access cards and make IKS a thing of the past and choose not to is the same rational for not taking out the servers and to make money off it rather then spend money to secure there signal

[Grave Digger]

taking end users to court serves two purposes,

1 - makes dn/nagra alot of fast and easy money
2 - judgements against end users sends fear through the entire FTA community

i am only speculating when i say this, but i am fairly certain that these court cases have turned ALOT of people away from continuing to use IKS....and no new IKS "donations" means the IKS servers close up shop

[sodusme]

I said it way back Sod, they (dn attorneys) are profit clearing houses set up to profit for the provider, they are the sleeziest sob's on the planet and the reason I call them ambulance chasers, just as they nagra have the ability to swap out there conditional access cards and make IKS a thing of the past and choose not to is the same rational for not taking out the servers and to make money off it rather then spend money to secure there signal

taking end users to court serves two purposes,

1 - makes dn/nagra alot of fast and easy money
2 - judgements against end users sends fear through the entire FTA community

i am only speculating when i say this, but i am fairly certain that these court cases have turned ALOT of people away from continuing to use IKS....and no new IKS "donations" means the IKS servers close up shop

I think you both nailed it on the head gentlemen.

[jeldf]

I think you both nailed it on the head gentlemen.

So say you are right. DN/Nag's 'solution' to piracy is to make a profit and hope it ends. Would this not make a credible defense? Sure one would get fried for admitting theft but would that not set a precedent as to their intent? Instead of fixing the problem easily, you'd rather make money from it in the process? I suppose DN Shareholders are all for it!