DN $3500 demand

[surfinisfun]

All I will say on that subject is that I would never have anyone on staff that was engaged in this type of activity. Now I'm not speaking against or condoning or admonishing what any site does as that is their own business. I'm only telling you how I would operate. Now of course its probably hard to keep tabs on people and what they are doing so that might be a little difficult. You would have to really be able to trust the people you have on staff.

You bet sod, it may seem the guy is a good dude coming in but....no way can you be sure of character when it counts.

[hondoharry]

You bet sod, it may seem the guy is a good dude coming in but....no way can you be sure of character when it counts.

If DN came down on him with the PP evidence most people will cooperate with anything else they have to save their asses. It's common nature. He was probably feeding them evidence while continuing to sell because it looks like he cooperated.

[surfinisfun]

If DN came down on him with the PP evidence most people will cooperate with anything else they have to save their asses. It's common nature. He was probably feeding them evidence while continuing to sell because it looks like he cooperated.

That would be my bet.

[sodusme]

People are being traced through records of purchases they made when the seller gets raided or gets into legal problems and cooperates.


So purchasers first have to identify a seller is going to have/keep a record of their transaction even if they say they don't. Than they have to try to take steps so that their purchase can't be traced back to them. If they can't accomplish that than they should only go ahead knowing that there is a chance it could come back to bite them with being ok with that if it happens.




GS2

But if you take Paypal out of the equation there is still no "safe" way to get with a reseller. That is why people need to be asking "Can this be traced back to me"?

Lets say Paypal wasn't involved in this and Wuf still got popped 'cause he dealt with the wrong person. That is essentially how these guys are being taken down is they bring the wrong guy "into the fold" and its all down hill from there. So Paypal is not being used as a payment processor. You still need to get the funds from point A (the end user) to point B (the reseller). I cannot think of any acceptable way to do that which is not traceable. Western Union (traceable), Paypal (obviously traceable), Payza (traceable as far as I know), Pay95 (traceable as far as I know), Prepaid Visa/MC (traceable in that it would have to be mailed and now you are involving address's in the mix), hell even Bitcoins are traceable I'm hearing.

Short of doing a hand to hand transaction with you tossing a knapsack in a dumpster with the money for the codes and the reseller leaving your codes in a lunch sack on a park bench its all traceable. In other words the reseller is always going to have "records of transactions" unless its a hand to hand transaction and that is not possible. Once those records are gained they have you.

[sodusme]

Now the only thing I can think of is to make it damn difficult to prove anything changed hands. In other words if you are reselling you need to be encrypting your records with something like Blowfish. Even better keep them on a separate flashdrive or something that can be easily hidden if need be and encrypt that. Use only emails that purge after a while. Upload codes to a filehosting site located outside the U.S. and again one that purges information regularly. Encrypt the file of the codes you upload also. Use a VPN in all dealings with customers and have customers use a VPN again from outside the U.S.

Once you enter another entity (payment processor) into the mix you are basically screwed. As you cannot control what info. they gather or how they use that info.

[hondoharry]

I've always wondered how the resellers safely pay the server providers. That paper trail seems to be pretty secure so far.

[rambojoe]

and what if a reseller sell to DN rep.don't look like they would'nt know till it's to late.If the reseller is in U.S.look out,or maybe even out of.

[dishuser]

and what if a reseller sell to DN rep.don't look like they would'nt know till it's to late.If the reseller is in U.S.look out,or maybe even out of.

have you read any of this thread?lol

[JCO]

another question you can ask yourself is, if i go iks,(which i don't recommend),will the reseller rat me out if he gets caught? I think they all will give in,causing more demand letters.But it's your choice.be safe.

We all know of at least one reseller that bit the bullet and didnt rat out on anyone.. ( BPG) There are people that still have ethics and morals and wont bring eveyone down if they get popped..

[rambojoe]

have you read any of this thread?lol

sorry, must have missed it,guess that they have and haven't. thanks dishuser and JCO.

[sodusme]

We all know of at least one reseller that bit the bullet and didnt rat out on anyone.. ( BPG) There are people that still have ethics and morals and wont bring eveyone down if they get popped..

Exactly and I have wondered did BPG have his info. encrypted? OR was the info. "gone" (think deleted) before anyone got to it? LOL

Maybe this is something he doesn't want to discuss in the open but if you take care of the customer there is no reason to bring down everyone with you. That is why I would advocate using some type of strong encryption on your HDD involving any kind of customer records. Lets face it the penalties are going to be more severe if they can prove you sold to a 100 customers instead of just 1. So it benefits you as a seller to keep sh*t encrypted and away from prying eyes OR delete it all together and wipe the HDD.

[hondoharry]

Exactly and I have wondered did BPG have his info. encrypted? OR was the info. "gone" (think deleted) before anyone got to it? LOL

Maybe this is something he doesn't want to discuss in the open but if you take care of the customer there is no reason to bring down everyone with you. That is why I would advocate using some type of strong encryption on your HDD involving any kind of customer records. Lets face it the penalties are going to be more severe if they can prove you sold to a 100 customers instead of just 1. So it benefits you as a seller to keep sh*t encrypted and away from prying eyes OR delete it all together and wipe the HDD.

DN: OK Mr. Reseller, we got all your and your customers personal info including bank accts. You have two choices. Cooperate with us with end user evidence and testimony and you can keep your ill begotten gains. Don't cooperate and we'll make you and your family penniless.

Mr. Reseller: (They got me by the balls)

[sodusme]

DN: OK Mr. Reseller, we got all your and your customers personal info including bank accts. You have two choices. Cooperate with us with end user evidence and testimony and you can keep your ill begotten gains. Don't cooperate and we'll make you and your family penniless.

Mr. Reseller: (They got me by the balls)

And that is where Paypal comes into play. Without a payment processor to subpoena they would not be able to prove that you had any customers at all. Say you sell to an undercover mole here on the forums. He gets you popped. You had him send the money via Paypal. Well of course they are going to assume that all your other transactions were via Paypal as well. Then all they simply need to do is go to Paypal and get record of all your transactions.

Now if you sell to a mole here on the forums and you have them send you a payment (that has yet to be determined) that cannot come back on you if subpoenaed then there is little proof that you had an "empire" going. So the key is to get payment that cannot be traced back to you OR forced to turn over records in a subpoena.

That is why I say short of a hand to hand transaction there is nothing that will work that I can think of. Now Liberty Reserve looks pretty good:

http://mypaymentprocessors.blogspot.com/p/liberty-reserve.html

But IMHO making the payment processing "anonymous" is the major problem. If you can do that you have half the system beat. The other half of course is to get the codes to a customer without revealing information.

[Hannibalector]

DN: OK Mr. Reseller, we got all your and your customers personal info including bank accts. You have two choices. Cooperate with us with end user evidence and testimony and you can keep your ill begotten gains. Don't cooperate and we'll make you and your family penniless.

Mr. Reseller: (They got me by the balls)

some people wonder why I call that extortion

[Russ]

Don't buy a code its dangerous, cause you $3500 for charlie I think if you live in canada its ok but in US i think buy beaverly