Letter now Court case

[iq180]

well then I guess you will never find out because there is somebody with a big stack of money to burn they will just settle out of court because that is the cheapest way out and then DN has to reveal nothing more than they already have but I am betting if it went to court any place that DN has more then one ace up their sleeve

never say never, lol, they mite piss off some one with money that will go all the way to court.

[Nostradamus]

never say never, lol, they mite piss off some one with money that will go all the way to court.

there is always that chance but like I said they would need to have more money than brains to spend $10 - 15K on court and lawyer fees on the chance of getting things dropped than to just pay $3500 and forget about it.

[iq180]

i have been thinking about this for some time now but what if the server had some legal use other than iks, like a forum or somthing, would that not make it hard for DN to prove that an end user was useing it for iks, that way it would have a legal use.

[Nostradamus]

i have been thinking about this for some time now but what if the server had some legal use other than iks, like a forum or somthing, would that not make it hard for DN to prove that an end user was useing it for iks, that way it would have a legal use.

I would think that it would be just the opposite as most legit sites have valid info in whois registration. That in itself would save the NCIS boys some legwork and they would approach that person asking about other services being offered on a different port. If the registrant is cloaked the way many of these sites are now it makes them look guilty again and you are back to where you are now.

[fifties]

All this speculation;

in the DA case, we DO know that they had sales records, and that alone may have been sufficient enough to convince the defendants to settle. I have not seen anything stating as to whether or not they also used server logs, as additional evidence. Since they seized the DA server, they most likely would have had that information as well.

The wufman case is entirely different. They DO have sales records, but so far, no one knows what, if anything else, they possess. No one has been to court over this so far, so no discovery has been exhibited, which would display exactly what their evidence is. We do not know, for certain, as to whether or not they have subpoenas to obtain ISP logs, which would be the smoking guns. Getting a judge to issue a court order for something so menial might or might not fly.

Wuf, as I understand, had access to the mod panel at the Z site, but I can't see how that would be damaging to any of the NFPS server subs.

[iq180]

I would think that it would be just the opposite as most legit sites have valid info in whois registration. That in itself would save the NCIS boys some legwork and they would approach that person asking about other services being offered on a different port. If the registrant is cloaked the way many of these sites are now it makes them look guilty again and you are back to where you are now.

i would think that would depend on what country that server was in and you know as well as i do that if DN could take that server
down they would have done so a long time ago.

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

"I was going to use it with an IKS server, but never got around to purchasing a receiver. I also bought one later on for my girlfriend to use, but she then decided against it".

Remember, as long as they can show no proof of either a receiver, or connection to the server, all they have is/are code purchase(s). We haven't seen where it has been established that ownership of the codes has been determined to be illegal.

Cases (wisely) settled out of court in the DA situation -where the plaintiff had server information, can't be displayed as an example because of that reason.

Before you would say it was not illegal to have bins but then you saw a ruling that it was illegal. You really don't need a specific ruling that says ownership of codes is illegal therefore making legal without one. We rarely get rulings certaintly not from trial.


As far as not proving there is a receiver you have to go back and see where that applied as to what law. They allege violation of three separate acts in their claim.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

bingo the seeder is the one that actually DECRYPTED the signal


for once fifties I'm going to agree with you...lol, simply possesion or intent of purchase means squat of actual use of CW's without a box and a bin with a Nagra image on it those CW's can't do squat, CW's themselves are useless and have no means of decryption without a nagra image, as stated to GS2 the seeder is decrypting, yes it's parsing the obvious but nonetheless that takes place 1st, wheres the proof theres a bin involved to decrypt anything ? wouldn't that matter ? lol

So you think its legal to view signals without their authorization or without payment because your defense is that the seeder decrypted the signal.



If it was that easy then why is that defense not being used in any of the DA cases.


I think I court can determine that the intent of the purchase of a subscription to a server that enabled you to view signals unlawfully being the only purpuse is damaging in itself what your intent was.



GS2

[Hannibalector]

Ok HL, when you have something of value to add to the subject of this thread, please post it. The soap box routine may add to your self proclaimed celeb status, but adds nothing of value to the content of this thread.

Thanks for understanding,

@13X

value ? really ? I would hope that anyone that has recieved one of these letters has had enough sense to obtain a lawyer and for that lawyer to ask exactly what evidence they have in order to proceed past a demand letter, I mean everything, right down to the meat of things as in the CW's the bin the box the decryption, evidence more then purchase and nics kept on a spreadsheet and (donations) made to saving the whales, thats called due dilligence before capitulating to demands of $3500, I've read the docs alex so to say I have no clue is ok by me, as for celeb status ? thats not me, allthough trying to bring light to the corrupt nature of the ambulance chasers and the board rooms by way of trying to get Alex Jones to accept a spot in his buzy agenda to take a look at the past corruption is the story not me

[Hannibalector]

So you think its legal to view signals without their authorization or without payment because your defense is that the seeder decrypted the signal.



If it was that easy then why is that defense not being used in any of the DA cases.


I think I court can determine that the intent of the purchase of a subscription to a server that enabled you to view signals unlawfully being the only purpuse is damaging in itself what your intent was.



GS2

it's two fold think about it

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

well then I guess you will never find out because there is somebody with a big stack of money to burn they will just settle out of court because that is the cheapest way out and then DN has to reveal nothing more than they already have but I am betting if it went to court any place that DN has more then one ace up their sleeve

Right evidence would come out later during discovery if someone files a defense and it gets to that stage.




GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

ooooh such wit alex, I guess I'm tired of seeing people get rail roaded over things (yes it's there fault) with regards to extortion, I wonder what Nagra will say to the content providers at the Nab show convention next month with regards to being asked if there signal is secure and there answer is umm no the encrytpion pops out CW's like a vending machine but were doing everything we can to eliminate piracy by sending people over to direct after charging them 3500 dollars, wouldn't you think it's better to come out with a cam that has no way of being intercepted between card and ird ? wouldn't that be more inline with securing a signal ? isn't that Kudelski's / Nagra's job ? signal integrity ?

I know it's not viewed as extortion alex, but I'm asking things in a succession to find answers thats all, you never know what bright minds there are out there alex

Its not viewed as extortion because demand letters are not extortion. Actually they give an opportunity to a defendant to settle before an action is filled if they wish.




GS2

[Hannibalector]

Its not viewed as extortion because demand letters are not extortion. Actually they give an opportunity to a defendant to settle before an action is filled if they wish.



GS2

I'm glad to see you're a glass is half full kinda guy

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

this has been ongoing for over 2 years now with no end in sight everything just gets shifted from one spot to another in a 3 card monty game and the results have not changed, IKS is still going and the signal has not changed one aiota.

Nagra has a chance to put an end to the IKS crap and they choose not to, instead they choose to chase ambulances

Yes rumors are that they are on to nag 4 and I guess you think they purpoesly put out weak encryptions so they have the ability to go to court while probably dealing with big penalties and loss of potential business.



GS2

[Gunsmoke2 - GS2]

value ? really ? I would hope that anyone that has recieved one of these letters has had enough sense to obtain a lawyer and for that lawyer to ask exactly what evidence they have in order to proceed past a demand letter, I mean everything, right down to the meat of things as in the CW's the bin the box the decryption, evidence more then purchase and nics kept on a spreadsheet and (donations) made to saving the whales, thats called due dilligence before capitulating to demands of $3500, I've read the docs alex so to say I have no clue is ok by me, as for celeb status ? thats not me, allthough trying to bring light to the corrupt nature of the ambulance chasers and the board rooms by way of trying to get Alex Jones to accept a spot in his buzy agenda to take a look at the past corruption is the story not me

So you think all a lawyer has to do is ask what evidence they have on a a demand letter and they will just say here it is. It does not work that way.




GS2